Malaysia Watch Forum
Main Forums => General Discussion - Modern Watches => Topic started by: chrisyen on November 02, 2013, 03:01:38 PM
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how often you hear
using the same eta 6497.... but they charge you rm 10k more....
(http://forums.watchuseek.com/attachments/f29/225651d1255883431-fs-nos-eta-6497-movements-x2-dscf4580.jpg)
this is the swiss made eta 6497-1 base movement - an ugly non finish movement.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o210/yenfoolun/Steinhart%20Nav%20B/DSC_0030.jpg) (http://s121.photobucket.com/user/yenfoolun/media/Steinhart%20Nav%20B/DSC_0030.jpg.html)
how about this, the so called finish movement u often seen in the RM few k watches.
nickel plated, blued screw, cotes de geneva
and compare to this
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o210/yenfoolun/pam111/pam1112_zpsde4b7291.jpg) (http://s121.photobucket.com/user/yenfoolun/media/pam111/pam1112_zpsde4b7291.jpg.html)
are they the same eta 6497?
comparing the movement 2 & 3 (Pam) i can simply point out the obvious differences (not the detail level/degree of finishing), worth the rm10k different.... u judge
1. most vious different - the ugly 6497 bridges has been thrown and replaced with the new bridges
2. plating - nickel vs pam rhodium - rhodium is the ultimate plating for watch movement. the price is also most expensive!
3. base plate finishing - none vs perlage
4. balance regulating - std vs polished swan neck - swan neck not just aesthetic, its easier to to do micro adjustment
5. bridges beveling - none vs yes
6. beat per hour - 18,000 vs 21,600 - arguably the faster the better accuracy
7. power reserve - 40 vs 56 hours
8. accuracy - non chronometer vs COSC
above are the obvious differences... the non obvious could be material of hair spring, balance wheel, polishing on each wheel, blue screw method, fine level of cotes de geneve, how many position is was regulated, etc
with many watch putting the so call swiss eta 6497 into their watches, they may claim the same... most likely they are not!
rm10k++ different justifiable ??? no? u can go on to compare the other component of a watch...
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Panerai buys the Top Grade 6497 and sends them off to Soprod to modify the movement to look like the original Cortebert movement used in vintage Panerai.
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/3646-G1_zps57432d15.jpg)
Picture from The Swiss Monster blog
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Willing buyer willing seller. Most ppl who bought pam cos they like the design. Only small majority of ppl only cared about the movement.
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Don't forget to add, on the Pam they use Nivarox hairspring like some of our Speedies.
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The new modified 6497 except for balance screws may be more reliable, durable, and accurate than the Cortebert movement in vintage Pams too. Reason due to new technology.
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Don't forget to add, on the Pam they use Nivarox hairspring like some of our Speedies.
Actually nivarox not highest grade, just better grade, anachon... Is the best if I remember n spell correctly
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A lot of people also think that Grank Seiko = Seiko
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I'm afraid it is the same for other brand. Take out the aesthetical reason most watch would lose their appeal. My experience taught me I can tolerated a sub standard movement in a good looking watch but the same can't be said for the opposite.
My 2 cents
T
Willing buyer willing seller. Most ppl who bought pam cos they like the design. Only small majority of ppl only cared about the movement.
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The hairspring in the PAM is Anachron instead of Nivarox 1
And the Balance wheel is Glucydur instead of Nickel Balance: Higher resistance against changes in temperature, higher consistency in-terms of time keeping
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i doubt about the accuracy... even tho its COSC, my pam 111 running at at least more than 10 sec per day even after 1 month of wearing... :Blue:
since then, i never justify pam as good watch maker, more like brand and design instead of watch maker, and their in-house movement is total disappointment, as accurate as seiko 5
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i doubt about the accuracy... even tho its COSC, my pam 111 running at at least more than 10 sec per day even after 1 month of wearing... :Blue:
since then, i never justify pam as good watch maker, more like brand and design instead of watch maker, and their in-house movement is total disappointment, as accurate as seiko 5
Well, has it been sent for regulation? If yes, any improvement?
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Well, has it been sent for regulation? If yes, any improvement?
send in for first time, was told the watch had magnetized, they help to demagnetize it, bring back try for another few weeks, still the same
bring over to service center they say need to do further checking which will takes months, and so i given up, ask among fren who own similar watch having similar accuracy issue, most of them not bothering.
since then i've giving up in pam, but no doubt the watch is very nice looking :P
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Well, has it been sent for regulation? If yes, any improvement?
send in for first time, was told the watch had magnetized, they help to demagnetize it, bring back try for another few weeks, still the same
bring over to service center they say need to do further checking which will takes months, and so i given up, ask among fren who own similar watch having similar accuracy issue, most of them not bothering.
since then i've giving up in pam, but no doubt the watch is very nice looking :P
If you got it new, get it in and get them to fix the problem. If pre-loved but still under warranty, still and it in. Why let them get away with it.
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Well, has it been sent for regulation? If yes, any improvement?
send in for first time, was told the watch had magnetized, they help to demagnetize it, bring back try for another few weeks, still the same
bring over to service center they say need to do further checking which will takes months, and so i given up, ask among fren who own similar watch having similar accuracy issue, most of them not bothering.
since then i've giving up in pam, but no doubt the watch is very nice looking :P
I've had a similar problem with my PAM000.
Turns out it was magnetized, I was keeping it near to my computer and miscellaneous hard drives, power supplies etc. occasionally I even put my hand phone (a huge magnetic source) next to it when I took the watch off for the evening. You'd be surprised to know the myriad of magnetic sources that we keep around the house that might affect mechanical watches!
:Startled:
After I found out my PAM was magnetized and had it fixed (from 1 min a day to less than 5 sec approx), I am happy as a clam with it.
:thumbsup:
You might want to check the surroundings of where you keep your watch after you take it off or even if your workplace has magnetic field sources nearby.
Either that or invest in a Rolex Milgauss, the latest Omega anti-magnetic Aqua Terra or the PAM 389.
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i wonder, how do you measure the accuracy on the PAM000 since the watch have no second hand ... ? :o
i kept my watch far away from any magnetic stuff, all my baby are well taken care of ;D
Hobbit, yes still under warranty, just dun like the wait hence moved on... :)
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i wonder, how do you measure the accuracy on the PAM000 since the watch have no second hand ... ? :o
i kept my watch far away from any magnetic stuff, all my baby are well taken care of ;D
Hobbit, yes still under warranty, just dun like the wait hence moved on... :)
From my understanding (yet to be confirmed), the movements (ETA/ Unitas 6497) that Panerai receives are all with COSC. Movements that are to used on the base Panerai like the PAM0000 and PAM00210 where there are no seconds hand are subsequently modified and the COSC cert is not issued with the watch. So at time of assemble, the movement was COSC but no longer since the movement has been modified. As for measurement of accuracy, you can still use a timing machine and regulate accordingly.
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i wonder, how do you measure the accuracy on the PAM000 since the watch have no second hand ... ? :o
And no minute markers... ;)
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From my understanding (yet to be confirmed), the movements (ETA/ Unitas 6497) that Panerai receives are all with COSC.
I thought the submission to COSC is in every case made by the watch company (Rolex, Omega, Breitling, OP.....)? If Panerai receives movements already with COSC, who submitted them in the first place? Doesn't it sound odd to get movements certified (with all the costs, time and labour expended) and just to have them modified with the result that the earlier COSC is made probably invalid.
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i wonder, how do you measure the accuracy on the PAM000 since the watch have no second hand ... ? :o
i kept my watch far away from any magnetic stuff, all my baby are well taken care of ;D
Hobbit, yes still under warranty, just dun like the wait hence moved on... :)
I had the watch examined (not serviced) at JWW in SGP. If they are to be believed - it's well within COSC tolerance; within 5 secs according to their machine. My own observation (non-scientific and anecdotal as it is) are accumulated over a period of a few days. Also helps if you have a Breitling super-quartz on hand as a reference. I also have several omega COSC watches on winders, the PAM 000 keeps up with them also. Start the timing on the 5 min marker, and go from there. Sorry to disappoint Panerai bashers, but I don't have any problems with my Panerai and I'm posting as such here.
:Cheers:
You'd be surprised at the number of magnetic sources around.
:Startled:
(http://i.imgur.com/XQ3yD.jpg?2)
At home a year or so ago, probably going to be put next to my computer to be magnetized...
:HammerHead: :Laughing_on_floor:
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From my understanding (yet to be confirmed), the movements (ETA/ Unitas 6497) that Panerai receives are all with COSC.
I thought the submission to COSC is in every case made by the watch company (Rolex, Omega, Breitling, OP.....)? If Panerai receives movements already with COSC, who submitted them in the first place? Doesn't it sound odd to get movements certified (with all the costs, time and labour expended) and just to have them modified with the result that the earlier COSC is made probably invalid.
That is my understanding. But there are plenty of loose end when it comes to the movement. We know that Panerai buys the top grade or Chronometre grade 6497 movement. But what does it mean? Does the movement come with COSC or meet COSC requirements. I am guessing that it meets the requirements. We know that Panerai sends the movement to Soprod for modification, I am guessing this includes the removal of the sub-seconds pinion. So does Soprod sends the movement to COSC on behalf of Panerai or does Panerai sends it first then have the movement modified? Your guess is as good as mine. Does Soprod just do the modifications or do they case the watch as well? Again, your guess is as good as mine. All these are the dirty little secrets all watch brands keep away from the buyers.
All I know based on my limited knowledge is that all the 6497 are COSC certified, regardless if it comes with or without the seconds hand.
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Every can send movement to get cosc
They check movement at different position
When movement put back in watches... Things can change
Most eta are accurate n reliable at today standard
More so with those chronometer grade come with cosc grade with glucydur balance n anachron hair spring
They r way better than most tourbillon... Even ap n pp... Yeah, belief me
Yeah I do belief Rolex n GS achieve gd accuracy n reliability
As well as current running omega 8500
So r v comparing this pam 6497 with which movement again?
When Age catch up, loosing eyesight to focus on minute marker
The big dial with 3,6,9,12 of pam still best time telling watch for me
Whether in the dark or bright day light
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When Age catch up, loosing eyesight to focus on minute marker
The big dial with 3,6,9,12 of pam still best time telling watch for me
Whether in the dark or bright day light
That is true. But OP is not making watches exclusively for old folks like us. ;)
But yes you are right, modern ETA movements are accurate and well tested. Few can dispute that. In all honesty, the "preference" for in-house is somewhat due (as Woon once told me) to snobbery. As between a well tested ETA/UNITAS/Lemania and an untested and expensive new in-house movement, logically the preference should be for the former, but this is for another thread.....(or maybe we have discussed this sometime ago).
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Sorry to disappoint Panerai bashers, but I don't have any problems with my Panerai and I'm posting as such here.
:Cheers:
....but in your earlier post in this same thread just one day ago you admitted and I quote:
"I've had a similar problem with my PAM000".
So, which is which???
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They r way better than most tourbillon... Even ap n pp... Yeah, belief me
When Age catch up, loosing eyesight to focus on minute marker
The big dial with 3,6,9,12 of pam still best time telling watch for me
Whether in the dark or bright day light
Don't get me started on tourbillons.....
Chris, you that old meh? If like me, oklah... that is why my collection mostly no minute markers...
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From my understanding (yet to be confirmed), the movements (ETA/ Unitas 6497) that Panerai receives are all with COSC.
I thought the submission to COSC is in every case made by the watch company (Rolex, Omega, Breitling, OP.....)? If Panerai receives movements already with COSC, who submitted them in the first place? Doesn't it sound odd to get movements certified (with all the costs, time and labour expended) and just to have them modified with the result that the earlier COSC is made probably invalid.
That is my understanding. But there are plenty of loose end when it comes to the movement. We know that Panerai buys the top grade or Chronometre grade 6497 movement. But what does it mean? Does the movement come with COSC or meet COSC requirements. I am guessing that it meets the requirements. We know that Panerai sends the movement to Soprod for modification, I am guessing this includes the removal of the sub-seconds pinion. So does Soprod sends the movement to COSC on behalf of Panerai or does Panerai sends it first then have the movement modified? Your guess is as good as mine. Does Soprod just do the modifications or do they case the watch as well? Again, your guess is as good as mine. All these are the dirty little secrets all watch brands keep away from the buyers.
All I know based on my limited knowledge is that all the 6497 are COSC certified, regardless if it comes with or without the seconds hand.
You conveniently answered my 3 questions with 3 questions but I guess I can get the drift of what you are trying to tell.
AS regards Chris' original post above whether the RM 10K is justifiable, I believe it can only be answered on a case-by-case basis and is dependant on the purpose and reason for which you buy that particular watch. I am still asking myself whether it will be worth the extra $$$ getting the AP 15202ST instead of the 15400. Some people feel yes, some says it's crazy. How do we decide??
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From my understanding (yet to be confirmed), the movements (ETA/ Unitas 6497) that Panerai receives are all with COSC.
I thought the submission to COSC is in every case made by the watch company (Rolex, Omega, Breitling, OP.....)? If Panerai receives movements already with COSC, who submitted them in the first place? Doesn't it sound odd to get movements certified (with all the costs, time and labour expended) and just to have them modified with the result that the earlier COSC is made probably invalid.
That is my understanding. But there are plenty of loose end when it comes to the movement. We know that Panerai buys the top grade or Chronometre grade 6497 movement. But what does it mean? Does the movement come with COSC or meet COSC requirements. I am guessing that it meets the requirements. We know that Panerai sends the movement to Soprod for modification, I am guessing this includes the removal of the sub-seconds pinion. So does Soprod sends the movement to COSC on behalf of Panerai or does Panerai sends it first then have the movement modified? Your guess is as good as mine. Does Soprod just do the modifications or do they case the watch as well? Again, your guess is as good as mine. All these are the dirty little secrets all watch brands keep away from the buyers.
All I know based on my limited knowledge is that all the 6497 are COSC certified, regardless if it comes with or without the seconds hand.
You conveniently answered my 3 questions with 3 questions but I guess I can get the drift of what you are trying to tell.
AS regards Chris' original post above whether the RM 10K is justifiable, I believe it can only be answered on a case-by-case basis and is dependant on the purpose and reason for which you buy that particular watch. I am still asking myself whether it will be worth the extra $$$ getting the AP 15202ST instead of the 15400. Some people feel yes, some says it's crazy. How do we decide??
I believe in most cases, the company sends the movement in for COSC certification. I think this is 'more' true if the company makes its own movement rather then buying it from a supplier. With the case of Panerai, we know that the in-house movement are not sent to COSC for certification and the movement have a pretty large latitude when it comes to accuracy. With the old ETA/ Unitas 6497 movement? I don't really know who sends them in. Looking at Panerai 'work flow', even if the movement are COSC, by the time it get cased and delivered....
Panerai buys the movement from ETA
ETA delivers the movement to Panerai or Soprod?
Soprod modifies the movement.
Soprod delivers the movement to Panerai (assuming Soprod is not one of the company that does the assembly).
Panerai sends the movement to the assemblers (we know that there are 2)
So where in the chain does the movement get sent to the COSC?
I hazard a guess that it is sent when ETA delivers the movement to Panerai. So the movement goes to Soprod with COSC. Soprod only changes the bridge. In the case of the models without the seconds hand, Soprod changes not only the bridge, but also the 4th wheel to one with a short pivot and no post. COSC does not matter anymore in these watches.
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Sorry to disappoint Panerai bashers, but I don't have any problems with my Panerai and I'm posting as such here.
:Cheers:
....but in your earlier post in this same thread just one day ago you admitted and I quote:
"I've had a similar problem with my PAM000".
So, which is which???
I say, do i have to explain stuff like this to someone like you? I see you are waiting to pounce on anything to "cho khuan" with me? You got me... i am so inconsistent you can safely dismiss me out of hand in which case you can put me on ignore. I am happy with that or you intend to harass me at every posting with your "cleverness" and say "why so serious" when i object?
PAM fixed already lah or do you want to "choi su" further? In that case send me a pm or email and we can freely "exchange opinions" in private.
Or do you intend to fill up this thread with Doraemon and vaguely gay pictures in a passive aggressive show of skirting the flaming rules here?
Bah, in baiting me you have already suceeded in bullying your way to derailing another Panerai thread. There are many forms of cyber bullying, this is one of them imo. You may be personal friends with the moderators but this is not right.
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I think this is 'more' true if the company makes its own movement rather then buying it from a supplier.
Like you, I am not 100% sure about this. The "snob factor" within me caused me to look up this COSC issue quite closely many years ago. One of the largest submitters of movements to COSC for certification was Breitling, and we all know at that time (about 10 years ago) Breitling was using all ETA / Valjoux movements. I guess we'll never know.
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It's hard to believe that Panerai deemed the base 6497 suitable for their L.E. Brooklyn Bridge model. What a sham.
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It's hard to believe that Panerai deemed the base 6497 suitable for their L.E. Brooklyn Bridge model. What a sham.
Yeah one of the 'many mistakes' Panerai have made over the years. Pains of growing up to fast and to soon....
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I think this is 'more' true if the company makes its own movement rather then buying it from a supplier.
Like you, I am not 100% sure about this. The "snob factor" within me caused me to look up this COSC issue quite closely many years ago. One of the largest submitters of movements to COSC for certification was Breitling, and we all know at that time (about 10 years ago) Breitling was using all ETA / Valjoux movements. I guess we'll never know.
One of the many secrets within the watch industry.....
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Bah, in baiting me you have already suceeded in bullying your way to derailing another Panerai thread. There are many forms of cyber bullying, this is one of them imo. You may be personal friends with the moderators but this is not right.
Another panerai thread derailed? When did that happen? I thought this thread is still continuing?
Baiting you? You think too highly of yourself.
Personal friends with the mods? I believe our mods will show no favours to friends. My posts got deleted a few times.
Cyber bullying? Who has been calling others "obtuse" and other more demeaning words?
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Easy guy! Don't go personal again...
I don't like to pretend old again and act as a dailo to organize a 4466 solution meal
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Is this a Panerai thread? I thought it was a discussion on the ETA 6497 movement?
Damn, I'm truly obtuse!
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I don't like to pretend old again and act as a dailo to organize a 4466 solution meal
...and as peace offering I will bring along...
(http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg574/loochunboon/wine_zpsac55db2a.jpg) (http://s1244.photobucket.com/user/loochunboon/media/wine_zpsac55db2a.jpg.html)
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ETA or Unitas powered......
PAM00000N or Zero on Wotancraft X MAS Strap.
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/DSC_0210_zpsdefa1d30.jpg)
PAM00003B on Gunny 74
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/DSC_0211_zps92118ab0.jpg)
PAM00024C on Ted Su Ammo
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/DSC_0212_zpsedff8336.jpg)
PAM00092G Arktos on Wotancraft Faux Ammo
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/DSC_0213_zps525406ab.jpg)
PAM00111H on Simona Alcatraz
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/DSC_0214_zps6b6d56c4.jpg)
PAM00183J Black Seal on Panerai Croco
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/DSC_0215_zps827895ba.jpg)
PAM00210N Radiomir Base on Panerai Jules Verne
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/DSC_0216_zpsf60961df.jpg)
PAM00243I on Wotancraft No. 3 X Mas
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/DSC_0217_zpsd32f4125.jpg)
PAM00337M on Panerai Croco
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/DSC_0219_zps1505519d.jpg)
How did that get in....
PAM00367M on Simona Museum
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/DSC_0220_zps9f572adf.jpg)
PAM00390N On Simona Museum
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/DSC_0221_zps7bd02aff.jpg)
And finally
Ennebi 9660 on Heroic18
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/DSC_0222_zps0ab3f435.jpg)
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Interesting topic, personally I don't favor in 6497. If I really buy one, it mainly because of the design of the case & dial fit me. Mechanical watch will always just be my weekend watch that I can't be bother so much on accuracy, In fact G-shock is still my best daily buddy if every minute & second count, I love digital clock/watch for accuracy and my speedo meter too, Digital life. :Laughing_on_floor:
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Eta 6497 is a fantastic movement
That's y every1 using it
Just it's ugly originally in my opinion
But with redesign of bridges, it can be very good looking...
Better even by adding the swan neck regulator
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Most unfinished movement look ugly. Have you seen the raw GS movement?
Regard
Tyler
Eta 6497 is a fantastic movement
That's y every1 using it
Just it's ugly originally in my opinion
But with redesign of bridges, it can be very good looking...
Better even by adding the swan neck regulator
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Most unfinished movement look ugly. Have you seen the raw GS movement?
Regard
Tyler
Yup, you'll find that in the Marinemaster which uses the Cal.8L35 which is basically an undecorated Cal.9S55 used in the earlier GS.
http://www.thewatchsite.com/16-seiko-reviews/748-seiko-sbdx011-review.html
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That I don't know. Now that you point it out. I appreciate my Darth Tuna even more.
Regard
Tyler
Most unfinished movement look ugly. Have you seen the raw GS movement?
Regard
Tyler
Yup, you'll find that in the Marinemaster which uses the Cal.8L35 which is basically an undecorated Cal.9S55 used in the earlier GS.
http://www.thewatchsite.com/16-seiko-reviews/748-seiko-sbdx011-review.html
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Let's get back to the point. It seems that another MyRisti has taken offence and would (i hope not) become another lurker.
Panerai is never and taken seriously as an haute horology piece and neither is Rolex. That is why the bread and butter pieces like the historic and Submariner range for each respective brands are the best sellers.
Panerai is also never about precision timing. As most COSC ratings for modern watches are redundant and nothing but marketing ploys. The range is very much outdated and most good brands have even more stringent and exceeded the ratings.
This whole thread is about whether the 6497 used by Pam after much mods justifies the price and prestige that it commands. There is absolutely no way to check an accuracy of a watch that is devoid of a second hand or markers without precision instruments. If there is by just visual observation, please do enlighten me.
Friendly banter and ribbing is part of life. I seriously have no idea why certain things like this have to be taken so seriously. I have my fair share of ribbing and ridicule by my close friends and even strangers about my taste in shoes, clothes, hairstyle, cars, taste in choosing women (ahem ;) :laugh: ;D) etc..... am I offended? The colours of the rainbow is varied so does our taste in watches....
come in with an open mind... if you always come in with antagony/aggression in your heart everything you see is a challenge. Agreeing to disagree is part of life... just ask Obama.
P.S. Although I have never met A.B. nor own a PSM, but i believe PSM owners sitting down and having breakfast, informal discussion with the person who makes your watch is more meaningful than meeting a person who sets the company direction and strategy.
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I agree with Terrence. As long as friendly banter is where we set the border. Then again that's no easy gauge on thing like that.
Is always better to be polite and courteous to other. My personal take on a forum like this, is where all come to share and learn about watches. That belief has help me to stay on and keep coming back even sometimes mean putting up with some of the not so nice comment over here(the whole forum not just this thread). Yes although I am part of the MyRisti group but I myself never once feel the need to participate in a public display ridicule to the panerai hater(GOD, this term is so inappropriate. I apologize in advance). I duly respect the decision others make for their personal choice of brand/watch even though I might not make the same decison myself.
I remember too well that I was once a newbie too and I would imagine back then if someone talk down on the choice I made for my watch for sure I would feel lousy. Whether it's the truth or not that is not the important because in the end of the day. The act of inflicting anger and humiliation on a person is uncalled for no matter how friendly the intention is.
I do wish this place can truly be a place where we Malaysian can come and share openly (with respect of others of course). We started with a good space here pity to see it not turn out to be great.
Regard
Tyler
(I'm still holding on, hopefully forever :P)
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Haha u guys sometimes quite funny la. On and off I check in to read, everytime Panerai is mentioned whether directly or indirectly, and with that Seiko lover using bombastic and articulated England, sure got fight wan, I meant tense exchange of opinions. But there are still nice members around that stay very polite like Ivan. It be interesting to get a few to sit down for some nice dinner like seafood and I can bring the whiskeys as peace drinks for everyone. Just thought its funny. Don't be angry ok, it's only watches. Material things. Cheers.
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I meant Seiko lover Enkidu.
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I meant Seiko lover Enkidu.
Ahem...ahem....for you (and only you) Padwan Kenny Panewalker, it's "Seiko Master Enkidu" if you don't mind. Don't be angry ok, it's only about watches, material things. And may the Force be with you... ;)
Yea, I love Seikos. But these days I find myself looking at the Ingenieur increasingly more, and even the PAM 512 which BTW I think is a very nice and slim watch for formal wear. How does the P999 calibre compare with the 6497 in the earlier PAMs?
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I meant Seiko lover Enkidu.
Ahem...ahem....for you (and only you) Padwan Kenny Panewalker, it's "Seiko Master Enkidu" if you don't mind. Don't be angry ok, it's only about watches, material things. And may the Force be with you... ;)
Yea, I love Seikos. But these days I find myself looking at the Ingenieur increasingly more, and even the PAM 512 which BTW I think is a very nice and slim watch for formal wear. How does the P999 calibre compare with the 6497 in the earlier PAMs?
I would really like to see you putting on a PAM, and will vote it as MWF Photo of the Year ;D ;D
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I meant Seiko lover Enkidu.
Ahem...ahem....for you (and only you) Padwan Kenny Panewalker, it's "Seiko Master Enkidu" if you don't mind. Don't be angry ok, it's only about watches, material things. And may the Force be with you... ;)
Yea, I love Seikos. But these days I find myself looking at the Ingenieur increasingly more, and even the PAM 512 which BTW I think is a very nice and slim watch for formal wear. How does the P999 calibre compare with the 6497 in the earlier PAMs?
Seiko Master Enkidu, the 512 a lovely 1940 casing. Looking at the movement I don't know how it is, compared to 6497, however it's finishing it's quite nicely done and hopefully it's not only for aesthetic reasons but accuracy too. Cheers. Other members may be able to provide more info on its calibre.
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Yea, I love Seikos. But these days I find myself looking at the Ingenieur increasingly more, and even the PAM 512 which BTW I think is a very nice and slim watch for formal wear. How does the P999 calibre compare with the 6497 in the earlier PAMs?
The P.999 is a new caliber, 'in-house' caliber at that. Like the 6497, it is a hand wind movement. Power reserve is about the same, but the P.999 is nicer to look at. The P.999 is based on the Piaget 838P movement, but the baseplate and regulator is different. Have never seen the Piaget movement, so can't compare. It is a smaller movement to the 6497. The 6497 is a cheaper movement, but robust and can be regulated to COSC specifications. The P.999 is more expensive. This is reflected in the prices of the watches fitted with the respective movement. Oh yes, in terms of accuracy, in house panerai movements... Large latitude....
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I think this is 'more' true if the company makes its own movement rather then buying it from a supplier.
Like you, I am not 100% sure about this. The "snob factor" within me caused me to look up this COSC issue quite closely many years ago. One of the largest submitters of movements to COSC for certification was Breitling, and we all know at that time (about 10 years ago) Breitling was using all ETA / Valjoux movements. I guess we'll never know.
I read some where that it is Rolex who is the largest submitters of movement to COSC for certification,correct me if I'm wrong.
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I think this is 'more' true if the company makes its own movement rather then buying it from a supplier.
Like you, I am not 100% sure about this. The "snob factor" within me caused me to look up this COSC issue quite closely many years ago. One of the largest submitters of movements to COSC for certification was Breitling, and we all know at that time (about 10 years ago) Breitling was using all ETA / Valjoux movements. I guess we'll never know.
I read some where that it is Rolex who is the largest submitters of movement to COSC for certification,correct me if I'm wrong.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee475/ndtaan/topproducers.jpg) (http://s1229.photobucket.com/user/ndtaan/media/topproducers.jpg.html)(http://)
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Enkidu with a pam 512? Bro...are you sure? Sun will rise from the west.
Anyway write a full review once you got it. Compare with the 6497 also.
God bless :Cheers: