Chronograph with Sweeping Second Hand

[bezelnut]

Greetings to all sifus,

I am looking for a chronograph watch that has a sweeping/moving large second hand. What I mean is instead of having a chrono function large second hand, the watch have a normal large second hand. As a result, during normal use (aka not running chronograph), the watch should have a moving large second hand and a still small second hand, or in other words, the “usual” chronograph second hand order reversed. (hope you are still with me  )

Linde Werdelin Spidospeed is what came to mind, however it is waaay beyond my reach. The JLC Duometre is another example, although this one has both sweeping and chrono second hand. Other than that, I knew Miyota have such a movement, but it is quartz and spotted in Fossil watches.

So back to question, is there an automatic chronograph with sweeping second hand that’s also budget friendly? Do such a watch exist?

Thank you in advance.

[bezelnut]

Seriously? No reply? :tears:

[JOS2012]

Not that no one wants to respond. I only know of the following chrono movts and none of them has a large second hand as opposed to the second hand in a sub counter:
Vj7750, Lemania 5100, FP1185, El Primero, Seiko 6S37, 8R28 , 8R39, Omega 9300, Ebel cal 137
If I'm not wrong even the older Landeron and original Longines chrono (not current ETAs) never had this feature. ahh  how can I forget the Venus... also no such feature..
 
I'm also curious if there is any 'budget' chrono calibre that fits your description...

[bezelnut]

Not that no one wants to respond. I only know of the following chrono movts and none of them has a large second hand as opposed to the second hand in a sub counter:
Vj7750, Lemania 5100, FP1185, El Primero, Seiko 6S37, 8R28 , 8R39, Omega 9300, Ebel cal 137
If I'm not wrong even the older Landeron and original Longines chrono (not current ETAs) never had this feature. ahh  how can I forget the Venus... also no such feature..
 
I'm also curious if there is any 'budget' chrono calibre that fits your description...

Thanks for showing up finally. At least I'm no more alone here.

Please, dear all sifus, I appreciate any form of information, or hint for a direction is also greatly appreciated.

[GMTmaster]

Bezelnut, you are definitely not alone in this request. Last year I started looking into automatic watches and I liked the sweeping centre second hand feature. Kind of interested in chronograph but due to the fact that the big second hand always stuck at 12 that putted me off.

I was wandering is it because :

1. It is mechanical impossible to have a sweeping centre second hand,
2. Aesthetically unpleasing to a lot of other people, or
3. Some reasons that I still do not realize.

Why? 

[davidtth]

reason why getting chrono is to measure sometime, in order to measure u need a very easy to read (big second hand) and a useful bezel to read, that is why chrono will never come in normal running second hand on the center, which is quite making sense unless some crazy watch design in other way round :p

[dpkong]

just sync the large seconds hand with the small seconds, problem solved.

the moving minute and hour counters also helps to let you know that all chrono functions are working..

 

[JOS2012]

Well spoken by a Daytona owner....
 

just sync the large seconds hand with the small seconds, problem solved.

the moving minute and hour counters also helps to let you know that all chrono functions are working..

 

[bezelnut]

Bezelnut, you are definitely not alone in this request. Last year I started looking into automatic watches and I liked the sweeping centre second hand feature. Kind of interested in chronograph but due to the fact that the big second hand always stuck at 12 that putted me off.

I was wandering is it because :

1. It is mechanical impossible to have a sweeping centre second hand,
2. Aesthetically unpleasing to a lot of other people, or
3. Some reasons that I still do not realize.

Why? 

Thank you for responding.

I think reversing second hand is mechanically possible. Watch maker have the ability to combine chronograph+minute repeater+tourbillon in a single watch, but unable to switch second hand? That should be easier to execute that split second.

Astetically, I am equally put of by a static large second hand. Therefore, in this world, at least two folks would like a chronograph with large sweeping second hand. That should be enough for them to manufacture it. 
Seriously, I think there are much more people who also want such a watch. Great mind think alike, don't they? 

I still think, and believe that such a watch (with a free sweeping large second hand) do exist. Just under the radar, less mainstream. Together we continue the quest to hunt it down. 

reason why getting chrono is to measure sometime, in order to measure u need a very easy to read (big second hand) and a useful bezel to read, that is why chrono will never come in normal running second hand on the center, which is quite making sense unless some crazy watch design in other way round :p

Thanks for explaination.
You are absolutely right about the functional requirement. A large second hand make reading elapse time accurately possible, also enable the use of tachymeter bezel.
However, from my perspective and observation, not many chronograph owner are really using their chronographs in a daily basis out of necessity. I don't think there is that many people utilising their tachymeter as well.

So you are right, I am now in the hunt for some crazy watch design which make it the other way round. 

just sync the large seconds hand with the small seconds, problem solved.

the moving minute and hour counters also helps to let you know that all chrono functions are working..

 

Thanks for the tip.

I'm having a second thought of having the Chrono running 24/7.
1st, it should mess up the accuracy of the watch.
2nd, it is morally working around the corner. I'm hoping to find a watch that is design this way in the first place.

[Panda23]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM8ARDei_0Y

Too bad it's not sweeping second hand.
Victorinox Swiss Army Chrono Classic 1/100th

[bezelnut]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM8ARDei_0Y

Too bad it's not sweeping second hand.
Victorinox Swiss Army Chrono Classic 1/100th

Great, thanks for sharing.

[bezelnut]

This thread had idled for some time, I'm here to do a bit of findings update, also to bump this thread.

FP Journe Centigraphe
This is a chrono without a static second hand by the legendary watchmaker himself. So the idea "large chrono second hand is a functional requirement for making reading time-lapse possible" is proven to be not totally valid. This one can tell 100th of a second.


David Van Heim
It is huge at 54mm, and has two quartz movement. I'm just including it here because it is different, and huge. It does not meet the criteria of a chronograph with sweeping second hand. This watch is two chronographes with two static second hands, and huge. 


Next watch is the Sportura Kinetic Chronograph. If not mistaken, I think there is a member here who have one of this. It separate the chrono function altogether, making a watch dial resembling a car dashboard. Only slight complaint is that it is a quartz.


Finally, there is the MIH watch, which is an annual calendar, with a discreet chronograph hidden on the back. So if the second hand is allowed to run free all day, it should look like a normal watch, at least to non WIS. But how bad will it affects the accuracy and will wear down the movement extreme fast? Mr. Chrisyen & Mr Tyler, any input on this please?


Thank you for reading.

[amir1218]

Hi,
Tag Heuer developed a chronograph movement with a sweeping hand seconds.
It uses an electro mechanical quatz movement. Its called the Calibre S.
You can find this movement in the Aquaracer, Carrera and Formula 1 series watches.

In normal mode, the hours and minutes tell the time and the seconds move like in a normal watch.
To activate the chronograph function, you push down the crown once and all the hands will move to the 12 o'clock position.

To start and stop the timer function, you push down on the top pusher.
If you want to return to the time function, press the crown and the hands will move back to tell the time.

Its a quatz movement so it doesn't completely fulfil your requirement, but thought it would be worth a mention since you posted some watches with quatz movement and sweeping second.

[bezelnut]

Hi,
Tag Heuer developed a chronograph movement with a sweeping hand seconds.
It uses an electro mechanical quatz movement. Its called the Calibre S.
You can find this movement in the Aquaracer, Carrera and Formula 1 series watches.

In normal mode, the hours and minutes tell the time and the seconds move like in a normal watch.
To activate the chronograph function, you push down the crown once and all the hands will move to the 12 o'clock position.

To start and stop the timer function, you push down on the top pusher.
If you want to return to the time function, press the crown and the hands will move back to tell the time.

Its a quatz movement so it doesn't completely fulfil your requirement, but thought it would be worth a mention since you posted some watches with quatz movement and sweeping second.

Thank you very much for bringing that up, it is definitely worth mentioning.

Calibre S is created in 2005 by TAG, together with their Calibre 360. All watch fitted with the Calibre S have the similar design dial, where it has two retrograde subdial at 4:30 & 7:30.

The Aquaracer even have a 10 minutes count-down mode built-in.

[CKL1213]

looks impressive for a quartz movement

[Godzillaz]

I don't think there is such a watch or movement exist.

It may be a novel idea but the movement construction might be unattractive to look at.

As a recently converted chronograph enthusiast. I find many of the so call modern chronograph movement pale in comparison to the old vintage in the pre 60s era.

There nothing to look at for automatics(daytona, Tag, Omega) because the rotor cover most to the movement while the manual ones (Zenith HW, Speedy Moon, etc) there is this big plate placed slightly off centre on top of the movement. This mean the the owner can't really have the full view of the chronograph parts which is one of the main joy of having a chronograph watch.

Like you say most owner don't use the chronograph function of their watch often. There is a reason for that. All horizontal clutch chronograph suffer wear and tear every time the chronograph function is engage. The longer you let it run the more wear is done.

There is high possibility after a few years of so these watch require some significant change of parts. Unless is one those watch with a modern post mid 2000 design or those workhorse 5100 from the 70s.

Going back to your question I am not really sure I will like the idea of chrono second hand on one of the sub dial but I tend to agree an idle center chrono second hand is bit of a distraction. Then again that's why Datograph is such a gorgeous watch. The center second hand is so well design (it's a needle!!) that it does little distraction.

Finally as far as accuracy is concern in regarding letting the chrono run. I belong to the school that think accuracy is not really important as long as it doesn't lose or gain more than 10 second a day. Accuracy in the mechanical watch is only a pursue there's no ultimate goal to be reach.

So far the only company that did something on for the issue you raise is JLC's Duometre Chrono. The rest didn't really do anything innovative about the lag time cause by the engagement of the chrono gears.

Hope this answer your question.


PS it does wear down the MIH sooner 

Regard
Tyler
   

[bezelnut]

Thank you Mr Tyler for such a detail reply.

Since you brought it up, movement construction in modern chronograph is indeed more pale. Not blessed with a nice looking movement is already a pain, and if one must also live with dial face with a large second-hand stucked @ 12 o'clock, thats double torment. So now you know how I feel.

I also agree with you that Datograph has the most least obstructive second hand. It also have a good looking movement. Bravo for the folks in A Lange.

Beside the JLC Duometre Chrono, I'll say FP Journe Centigraphe is also going the path. At least that's what I know from my findings so far. The quest is far from over, as I'll continue to search for a watch that meet these criteria.

Also many thanks for clearing my doubt with the MIH. One more question thou, do you keep your MIH in running or static mode most of the time? (When on wrist that is.)

[rusminag]

Just let the chrono hands run. Solve the problem. Its an auto, no need to save energy....

[bezelnut]

Just let the chrono hands run. Solve the problem. Its an auto, no need to save energy....

Thank you for the advise.

dpkong had mentioned that before too.

Thou, my purpose in this thread is to find  (and also to discuss) watches that is design that way in the first place, or at least not the typical chronograph design.

[Enkidu]

Thou, my purpose in this thread is to find  (and also to discuss) watches that is design that way in the first place, or at least not the typical chronograph design.

Not sure if this one will satisfy your search. Anyway, pay attention to the small registers...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3UE7ChKvSI

[rusminag]

LV...I like....

[bezelnut]

Not sure if this one will satisfy your search. Anyway, pay attention to the small registers...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3UE7ChKvSI

Yes, that is a good findings. Thank you.

This watch does have a constantly sweeping large second hand, as all the chrono functions are taken-care of by the 3 subdials. The 8 o'clock subdials is 1st chrono, 4 o'clock subdial is 2nd chrono, and 12 o'clock is the time difference. It is a single pusher, and every cycle is 4 clicks.
The watch is powered by an in-house movement, specially developed for the double chrono complication. The watch dial is blue enamel, case is white gold, and both front and back is covered in sapphire crystal.

LV is going to make just 30 pieces, and each will cost $70,000. shocking.

Some mandatory photos borrowed from the internet.







*Photos courtesy of blog perpetuelle

[bezelnut]

Add one more to the list. PHILIP STEIN Oversized Chronograph.

Two independent time zone, with chronograph function & date on the top dial & normal time on the bottom. Not really a sweeping second hand thou, as it is quartz. Could be a contender to the Seiko Sportura.


*Photos courtesy of MWF member sjh314. Thank you.

[wealthbowl]

Back then I use to own (still having) one Black Quartz Sekonda - that fits your description. But that's more like a budget watch.

[bezelnut]

You mean this Breitling lookalike?



They reversed the chronograph & large second hand?