Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??

[takashi78]

Wow this thread moved faster than i thought

This are the kind of civilized discussion that this forum needs, we might not come to a "conclusion", many topics dont. But at the end i hope we all learn from it. Good or bad.

Now my views,

PAM fashion brand? NO.
I consider fashion watch brands are those which their primary product being fashion items like clothes and such.

Now with the help from Richemont they can produce their own in house movements, but the past 3-5yrs the QC has not been too good from the ones i can see.
To me the BIG fail is the small balance on such a big watch, much like the new IWC Portofino 8days.

My limited love for the brand and model is from the days of the Unitas movts. 111, 183.

Some questions though, hope you all can enlighten me.

1 - When did the PAMs started to come with the tools to change straps?
2 - So were the brand "encouraging" the users to change straps?

Cant help but to be amazed such a single brand brought a whole new mushroom industry of "strap makers" suddenly pooping up.

[Kennypane]

If i may add, i dont think Panerai deliberately produce their watches so that owners can easily change straps.  The earlier produced for real army, lugs were soldered on so no way u can change straps easily.  U have to destroy the straps and sew them back on. Probably after the revival of the brand in the 1990s, Panerai has to catch up with the times, like other brands, strap changing should be made easier, and u have die hard fans who love strap variation which caused it to be more fashionable with different straps. 

[tonykpk]

If i may add, i dont think Panerai deliberately produce their watches so that owners can easily change straps.  The earlier produced for real army, lugs were soldered on so no way u can change straps easily.  U have to destroy the straps and sew them back on. Probably after the revival of the brand in the 1990s, Panerai has to catch up with the times, like other brands, strap changing should be made easier, and u have die hard fans who love strap variation which caused it to be more fashionable with different straps. 

The one with the soldered lugs was Rolex produced pocket watch sold to Panerai to be made into wrist watches in the mid 30"s till end of 40"s . correct me if I'm wrong .regards tony

[Enkidu]

Wow this thread moved faster than i thought

This are the kind of civilized discussion that this forum needs, we might not come to a "conclusion", many topics dont. But at the end i hope we all learn from it. Good or bad.

Now my views,

PAM fashion brand? NO.
I consider fashion watch brands are those which their primary product being fashion items like clothes and such.

Now with the help from Richemont they can produce their own in house movements, but the past 3-5yrs the QC has not been too good from the ones i can see.
To me the BIG fail is the small balance on such a big watch, much like the new IWC Portofino 8days.

My limited love for the brand and model is from the days of the Unitas movts. 111, 183.

Some questions though, hope you all can enlighten me.

1 - When did the PAMs started to come with the tools to change straps?
2 - So were the brand "encouraging" the users to change straps?

Cant help but to be amazed such a single brand brought a whole new mushroom industry of "strap makers" suddenly pooping up.

Peter,

No, I don't believe OP expressly and openly encourages its customers to change straps frequently, but neither does SWATCH (not the group but the plastic watch). Having said that, like SWATCH, Panerai sells a large range of straps with lots of different shades and colours (including the less conventional colous). For those who have not checked, just go to OP's official web site, go to accessories. Out pop a long list of strap/watch measurement, each item on the list will in turn contain a sublist of straps.

Not unlike Ulysses having to navigate between the Scylla and Charybdis, I'll (wisely) keep my comments to what's factual and empirical above - members can draw their own conclusion what this means as regards strapchanging & the temptation to change straps and how this ultimately reflect upon the brand.

[Plankton-IkanBilis]

Wasn't it Odysseus...well, i may hv gotten my greek mythology mixed up.

[sattha61]

Wasn't it Odysseus...well, i may hv gotten my greek mythology mixed up.

Ullyses is the Roman name for Odysseus. The same person.

[Plankton-IkanBilis]

Ullyses is the Roman name for Odysseus. The same person.
[/quote]

 

[TheHobbit]

No, I don't believe OP expressly and openly encourages its customers to change straps frequently, but neither does SWATCH (not the group but the plastic watch). Having said that, like SWATCH, Panerai sells a large range of straps with lots of different shades and colours (including the less conventional colous). For those who have not checked, just go to OP's official web site, go to accessories. Out pop a long list of strap/watch measurement, each item on the list will in turn contain a sublist of straps.

Not unlike Ulysses having to navigate between the Scylla and Charybdis, I'll (wisely) keep my comments to what's factual and empirical above - members can draw their own conclusion what this means as regards strapchanging & the temptation to change straps and how this ultimately reflect upon the brand.

I do not deny the fact that the list is extensive and the colours varied, but to make thing clear, least we come to the wrong conclusion:

1. The fact that most Panerai watches comes with 2 straps, usually one leather and the other rubber or velcro or coramid straps.
2. Panerai does have watches in the following sizes: 40, 42, 44, 45, 47 and larger sizes and these watches comes with different size straps and even between models, different colour straps or material.
3. Leather, rubber, cloth and velcro do not last as long as metal bracelets. Just to highlight, I myself have gone through 3 sets of straps on one of my watches as I use it almost daily.

Yes, some of the colours are a 'tad bright' but they are there to facilitate those who are more fashion conscious amongst us and also for the fairer sex who may not want the typical boring black strap.

And to answer you question Peter:

1 - When did the PAMs started to come with the tools to change straps?

Since 1997/1998 when Panerai watches were sold to the general public.

2 - So were the brand "encouraging" the users to change straps?

Actually no. In the early days, Panerai actually prevented independent strap makers from using their watches to showcase these independent straps. However, along the way, they realised that this trend of changing straps would not stop, so I guess they took the decision to join the band wagon and make some money from this trend. However, I don't think this is really a big business for Panerai as from what you can see, there are hardly any Panerai collectors that will post pictures of their latest Panerai straps favouring the independents. Additionally, if you go to the boutiques or even the Ad, you will be hard pressed to see the entire collection of Panerai straps. Most of the time you would have to order the straps.

[fidoneo]

Dear members,

It has always been my opinion that Officine Panerai is not a watchmaking company but a just fashion house like DKNY, Dior, ...etc.

Panerai watches are all more about looks + aesthetics. Panerai lovers' obsession with the leather straps and the multitude of companies making straps for these watches partly support this view. When the watches do not come with see-through casebacks, I have seen photos of the movement underneath being not just undecorated, but downright raw and rough. This is evidence that the company is more concerned about cosmetics than the actual performance of the watches themselves (considering the movement is the heart of a watch).  Companies like Stowa and Steinhart (or even Sea-Gull) have more self-respect than these Italians.

Considering their sizes, they look awkward as dress watches. Whilst some models have rotating bezel for diving, the majority don't - hence although these watches are claimed to be rated to 300m, they are practically useless as diving watches. In fact, it is not entirely clear which genre these watches belong to, except that they function as strong fashion statements for young people who want to appear bold and confident.

Their sale strategy (with countless special editions) shows they are not in the business of making good watches, but are here to play with human emotions and lust for exclusivity.

Let the discussion begin!!!

   

Hi mate,
Happy morning!
This is for more pleasure than reading the newspaper.

Officine Panerai just a fashion house?
I really hope I can buy some jeans and shoes from them,this will save me a lots of trouble in mixing and matching my daily outfit.I'm a shoe and jeans freaks btw.

DKNY?!?!?
Come on mate, a bit too harsh.Better compare with Cartier,Chanel and Hermes etc..more classy!
When you think it's a fashion brand no matter how much facts and points we share, we cannot change you,unless you started this thread to look for inspiration, to convince yourself to buy a Panerai. Or else this discussion will heading no where.
If you think OP is a fashion house like DKNY,Dior, just walk away from this brand.
What I can say is wearing an oversized watches(or a clock) is DA trend now.OP basically offer a whole lots of selection when you decided to follow the trend. Even some so called "self respected, well known, historical blah blah " watchmaker brand have to follow the trend.Upsize their watch casing. What to do thats what's the market demands.
Therefor OP is a trendy watchmaker,I still can accept la.

"This is evidence that the company is more concerned about cosmetics than the actual performance of the watches themselves (considering the movement is the heart of a watch).  Companies like Stowa and Steinhart (or even Sea-Gull) have more self-respect than these Italians."
If you are referring to the PAM00318 issue,I have no comment,
but then again, OP have a lots more pieces with well decorated movements, try google PAM00317K,PAM00319,PAM00348,PAM00350,PAM36500,PAM36501 and PAM36502 I find the movement underneath those robust casing makes them quite a Heart!
Sea gull? no way..try handle their tourby!


"Considering their sizes, they look awkward as dress watches. Whilst some models have rotating bezel for diving, the majority don't - hence although these watches are claimed to be rated to 300m, they are practically useless as diving watches."
Some are claimed to be rated 2500m and with fugly rotating bezel!
Y useless? I don't quite understand.but i guess not many people will dive with their precious collection. I dive with my rollie(rated 300m) seiko(200m) Sinn(1000m) before,practically they are useless too.I look at my dive computer more!
I just want to find out the money I spent on the so called diver's watch whether they are truly water resistant, but I can only dive for ~20m.
If you are happy with a 36mm dress watch, by all means, stick with it.don't bother about what other's are wearing.

"Their sale strategy (with countless special editions) shows they are not in the business of making good watches, but are here to play with human emotions and lust for exclusivity."
Buying is emotional, I think majority of the WIS will agree with me, when you finally bagged something is highly sought after and it's rare,you emotion will take over:)
Special edition is an useful and effective marketing strategy!Way too many special edition? from the company point of view, why not?
This is a very useful trick to generate more income from a particular cash cow from a brand.All the company like SE,Limited edition,etc,
In conjunction with the opening of new boutique worldwide, therefore you'll see more all look the same Se/BE. what to do, can sell ma.


To me watch collecting is a passion!It's a fun thing to do!
Mate, seek value!
Seek value in whatever we like and dislike,what others like, we will have more fun!
I still enjoy my oversize DYN...opps..OP, even a lots of ppl say I'm wearing a clock on my wrist,I take it as a compliment. 


Just my 2 cents.


 
ck

  well said ck ...

[Enkidu]

However, I don't think this is really a big business for Panerai as from what you can see, there are hardly any Panerai collectors that will post pictures of their latest Panerai straps favouring the independents. Additionally, if you go to the boutiques or even the Ad, you will be hard pressed to see the entire collection of Panerai straps. Most of the time you would have to order the straps.

Hobbitt,

I have not done a full survey of the price of a PAM strap vs. one from the independents (and I know they come in large price spectrum), but just with a broad brush, could the Panerai collectors be favouring the independents because the straps are relatively more affordable, ie the cost factor. It's like people going for the Banda diving strap instead of the original & more expensive seiko DALOAZ-22 strap. - Add note: And there are also "indpendent makers" of SWATCH strap. Except they are called "aftermarket" or worse "fakes". I myself bought one for RM 8 when my son's original SWATCH strap broke.

If you go into a SWATCH shop, you will also not find the entire range of strap, and if you want a particular design, you will have to order. So, what's the difference? To me boutiques not having all the straps is a neutral and inconsequential issue because this could be caused by the need to minimise the inventory.

Your learned view will be appreciated,




 

[TheHobbit]

Hobbitt,

I have not done a full survey of the price of a PAM strap vs. one from the independents (and I know they come in large price spectrum), but just with a broad brush, could the Panerai collectors be favouring the independents because the straps are relatively more affordable, ie the cost factor. It's like people going for the Banda diving strap instead of the original & more expensive seiko DALOAZ-22 strap. - Add note: And there are also "indpendent makers" of SWATCH strap. Except they are called "aftermarket" or worse "fakes". I myself bought one for RM 8 when my son's original SWATCH strap broke.

If you go into a SWATCH shop, you will also not find the entire range of strap, and if you want a particular design, you will have to order. So, what's the difference? To me boutiques not having all the straps is a neutral and inconsequential issue because this could be caused by the need to minimise the inventory.

Your learned view will be appreciated,

With regards to Swatch, I would guess that they do not keep stock as you say to minimise stock as they have lots, and I mean lots of straps considering the number of watches they have, but we are here to talk about Panerai and not Swatch. Which by the way is a serious and true watch maker, but that is another story.

With regards to pricing, yes, the independents can be cheaper as compared to Panerai own straps, which starts at around Rm400 to about RM800. As for the independents, you can get a cheap strap for about RM40, but that is if you trust your RM12,000 watch on a RM40 strap. Most of the straps that are favoured by Panerai collectors cost about the same as the Panerai original. Some good ones do cost a lot more then the Panerai original. The main reason these collectors change the straps is because they want something different from the Panerai standard offering, which are replacement straps for the standard issued with the watch. They may want straps made from ammo pouches from the second world war, they may want larger scales on their crocodile straps, they may want straps that look like the original panerai straps from the 40s, 50s, or 60s like the 74 straps. They may want straps that comes with the older GPF sewn buckle. There can be a host of other reasons. They may be the fact that you can get another look with just a simple strap change. They may want a proper black leather strap for work and a rough tumble strap for after work.

[dpkong]

Panerai looks at its best on a female wrist !! 

  

WOW... nice shape. but where's the watch ? ? ? ? ?

I wonder what the guy in the lower left of the pic is thinking...

[sooncheng1990]

Wow this thread moved faster than i thought

This are the kind of civilized discussion that this forum needs, we might not come to a "conclusion", many topics dont. But at the end i hope we all learn from it. Good or bad.

Yes Bro Takashi-san, definitely learned a lot, not just about PAM both good and bad....but also debating strategy....

This Bro Endiku is tricky lah..... . Pexus was right, it was tactic. A lot like my business negotiation and strategy workshop last year. Issue: How to deal with a powerful or a lot of opponents? First you dictate the issue (Risti made first mistake letting him defines what is fashion watch), then you let your opponents expose themselves. Then you attack their weakness and mistakes. Pull back to organize your defense.....that's when Endiku said "Enough said, we are going nowhere"...Actually this was just his tactic (Pexus was right) to pull back into a good defense position, wait for Risti to attack and make mistake because you Ristis relax yourselves.  After that he will attack hardest on your weak points and mistakes. He will also pretend weak, avoid issues, make jokes about you, but always waiting to attack to finish you off properly. Tactic, yes.....but his knowledge is quite wide. So he can wait for his time and let you make mistakes.... But hard to accept his extreme views that PAM=DKNY or SWATCH. But good try.....

Bro Endiku, your real name is Andy Khoo? Can be my business strategy mentor?? 

[ckcspice]

hahahaa...bro, even if they buy anything due to herd mentality, what's wrong with that??...its their money anyway....

there r many reasons y we buy watches ie. to tell time, to show off, to join the gang, to satisfy one's own childhood dream, to impress girls, to appreciate the craftsmanship, etc...n the list goes on....most importantly is we feel happy after we spend the $$...cheers

one man's meat is another man's poison...dont think any persuasion or opinions from either side of the camp will sway anyone to defect n switch sides ....so just buy what u like with ur own hard earned money....doesnt matter wat other folks say bout how u spend ur RM30k or RM100k...as long as u r happy....

Agreed CK, but there are people buying on impulse, follow the herd mentality buying (like some people are wearing it I've got to get one). At the end of the day they might " owned many knives but none is sharp". regards tony

[Enkidu]

With regards to Swatch, I would guess that they do not keep stock as you say to minimise stock as they have lots, and I mean lots of straps considering the number of watches they have, but we are here to talk about Panerai and not Swatch. Which by the way is a serious and true watch maker, but that is another story.

With regards to pricing, yes, the independents can be cheaper as compared to Panerai own straps, which starts at around Rm400 to about RM800. As for the independents, you can get a cheap strap for about RM40, but that is if you trust your RM12,000 watch on a RM40 strap. Most of the straps that are favoured by Panerai collectors cost about the same as the Panerai original. Some good ones do cost a lot more then the Panerai original. The main reason these collectors change the straps is because they want something different from the Panerai standard offering, which are replacement straps for the standard issued with the watch. They may want straps made from ammo pouches from the second world war, they may want larger scales on their crocodile straps, they may want straps that look like the original panerai straps from the 40s, 50s, or 60s like the 74 straps. They may want straps that comes with the older GPF sewn buckle. There can be a host of other reasons. They may be the fact that you can get another look with just a simple strap change. They may want a proper black leather strap for work and a rough tumble strap for after work.

Thanks Hobbit, Fair enough an answer. I believe we know where each other is coming from so there is no need realy to advance this any further. And no, this is not another devious strategy on my part (as fellow member Sooncheng is saying).

To Sooncheng: No my name is not Andy Khoo, neither is it Andy Lau. Actually my handle reads Enkidu - from the story of Gilgamesh and Enkidu. And no, I don't think I am qualified to mentor anyone on any subject. I don't know how you could have read so much into (and sensationalised) what I wrote. You have high potential as a fiction author like Dan Brown or Clive Cussler. Keep it up.

[bryankwc]

Hi all!
Provocative topic, leading to a truly interesting thread with lots of passionate views & even more info for newbies (to this hobby).
I LIKE! 
What? No 'LIKE' button? 
Anyways, thanks to all members who contributed cos i found this thread to be most interesting & enlightening.
Personally, I believe that each man's (or woman) taste is different & most of the time what we wear on our wrist is a fashion statement - whether we are conscious of it or not.
Peace & Prosperity to all.
Take care, Ciao!

[Kennypane]

Dear dpkong, if I may correct, that person sitting on the left is an auntie. Not a guy. She is wondering how the hell that tall and slim lady in grey wearing that Pam can get such a shapely figure which she reminiscent she was once like that before. Or she wondering if her husband is seeing that cute young lady. Jokes aside. Look carefully, it's an auntie.

[landyshah]

Ah...this subject has been debated ad nauseum in other forums.

Since I long time didnt post, since this is free and open forum, and its a free world discussion on a brand, may I add my opinion?

PAM is overrrated fashion junk and I wouldnt be caught dead wearing one 

Of course its every individuals money to spend as they wish and wear what they like. If PAM fans like what they wear and are happy, I'm happy for them too

[zameenzahari]

Ah...this subject has been debated ad nauseum in other forums.

Since I long time didnt post, since this is free and open forum, and its a free world discussion on a brand, may I add my opinion?

PAM is overrrated fashion junk and I wouldnt be caught dead wearing one 

Of course its every individuals money to spend as they wish and wear what they like. If PAM fans like what they wear and are happy, I'm happy for them too

very constructive comments. Panerai are junks, contemporary rolexes are bling...I guess you must be wearing either the AP Royal Oak Grande Complication or the Maître du Temps Chapter One on your wrist.

[landyshah]

Chill man, its my view, nothing more. You have yours and I respect it 

I seriously doubt if any constructive comments can arise out of a topic like this anyway. Its all theoretical and personal opinions. The OP stated his view, I agree with him. Others may not.

No I dont have expensive watches of that calibre - does one need be loaded to share his opinion on this forum?

[fidoneo]

Ah...this subject has been debated ad nauseum in other forums.

Since I long time didnt post, since this is free and open forum, and its a free world discussion on a brand, may I add my opinion?

PAM is overrrated fashion junk and I wouldnt be caught dead wearing one 

Of course its every individuals money to spend as they wish and wear what they like. If PAM fans like what they wear and are happy, I'm happy for them too

very constructive comments. Panerai are junks, contemporary rolexes are bling...I guess you must be wearing either the AP Royal Oak Grande Complication or the Maître du Temps Chapter One on your wrist.

  zz..

[Godzillaz]

Dude... how to chill.
If I go in your house and trash talk your wife but later say "actually that's only my opinion, if you're happy you got a ugly wife then I'm happy for you"

Will you stay civilized?

Yes is an open forum but that doesn't mean we don't try to be sensitive in others feeling when we post.

Treat others like we want to be treated, man.  I'm sure it wasn't your intention to upset ZZ 

Regards
Tyler

Chill man, its my view, nothing more. You have yours and I respect it 

I seriously doubt if any constructive comments can arise out of a topic like this anyway. Its all theoretical and personal opinions. The OP stated his view, I agree with him. Others may not.

No I dont have expensive watches of that calibre - does one need be loaded to share his opinion on this forum?

[fidoneo]

Ah...this subject has been debated ad nauseum in other forums.

Since I long time didnt post, since this is free and open forum, and its a free world discussion on a brand, may I add my opinion?

PAM is overrrated fashion junk and I wouldnt be caught dead wearing one 

Of course its every individuals money to spend as they wish and wear what they like. If PAM fans like what they wear and are happy, I'm happy for them too

Overrated fashion junk ? Wow that's harsh ... Some of our collections here are even worth more than your house or ride young man . Keep those harsh comments back at your own yard.. 


Peace
Overrated Fashion junkie...

[Godzillaz]

Now you done did it. Calm down, calm down, stay cool. 

I'm scare to see you like this 

LOL

Regards
Tyler

Ah...this subject has been debated ad nauseum in other forums.

Since I long time didnt post, since this is free and open forum, and its a free world discussion on a brand, may I add my opinion?

PAM is overrrated fashion junk and I wouldnt be caught dead wearing one 

Of course its every individuals money to spend as they wish and wear what they like. If PAM fans like what they wear and are happy, I'm happy for them too

Overrated fashion junk ? Wow that's harsh ... Some of our collections here are even worth more than your house or ride young man . Keep those harsh comments back at your own yard.. 


Peace
Overrated Fashion junkie...

[fidoneo]

Now you done did it. Calm down, calm down, stay cool. 

I'm scare to see you like this 

LOL

Regards
Tyler


I am cool bro... Hehehe 

Ah...this subject has been debated ad nauseum in other forums.

Since I long time didnt post, since this is free and open forum, and its a free world discussion on a brand, may I add my opinion?

PAM is overrrated fashion junk and I wouldnt be caught dead wearing one 

Of course its every individuals money to spend as they wish and wear what they like. If PAM fans like what they wear and are happy, I'm happy for them too

Overrated fashion junk ? Wow that's harsh ... Some of our collections here are even worth more than your house or ride young man . Keep those harsh comments back at your own yard.. 


Peace
Overrated Fashion junkie...