geneva seal or pp seal

[frank]

hi guys, i read somewhere recently about the pp/patek philippe seal or geneva seal... any commend?

[MichaelC]

Read this from watch magazine...

PP seal is 'theoretically' higher standard (with more requirement on watch making) then geneva seal...PP feel that the standard should improve as the geneva seal exist for more than hundred years...pls correct me if i'm wrong

[chrisyen]

just for marketing point of view... since many other can get the geneva seal now...
the chopard luc, roger dubois, VC... all also can get the same seal...

philippe dufour no need any seal also finish better...

so i'll say now PP do not require geneva seal now.... since PP is bigger name!

[silverstan]

watches with any seals (geneva, LUC, PP), it's to show their craftsmanship & proof their quality, also another way to mark their price higher 

[Scott C.]

i think the high end Cartier is now has the Geneve Seal too

Maybe PP think that too many companies are getting the Geneve seal and it will be good if they can introduce another type of seal to distinguish them self from other company, also, mostly for their marketing strategy...

just my opinion

Cheers!
scott

[frank]

source from other forum:-

As you all probably know...Patek Philippe and a few other brands are very proud to state that their watches contain the Geneva Seal. In case you were wondering, the following 12 conditions must be met in order for a watch to contain the seal:

GENEVA SEAL CRITERION NUMBER ONE (A)
The workmanship of all the caliber's components, including those of additional mechanisms, must meet the requirements of the office for optional inspection of Geneva watches.
GENEVA SEAL CRITERION NUMBER ONE (B)
Steel parts must have polished angles and their visible surfaces smoothed down. Screw heads have to be polished, with their slots and rims chamfered.
GENEVA SEAL CRITERION NUMBER TWO
All movements must be provided on the train and escapement with ruby jewels having polished holes. On the bridge side, the jewels must be half frosted with polished sinks. The end stone for the center wheel on the base plate is not required.
GENEVA SEAL CRITERION NUMBER THREE
The balance spring should be pinned up in a grooved plate with a stud having a rounded collar and cap. Mobile studs are allowed.
GENEVA SEAL CRITERION NUMBER FOUR
Split or fitted indexes are allowed with a holding system except in extra-thin calibers where the holding system is not required.
GENEVA SEAL CRITERION NUMBER FIVE
Regulating systems (balances) with variable radius of gyration are allowed provided they comply with criteria ONE (A) and ONE (B).
GENEVA SEAL CRITERION NUMBER SIX
The wheels of the going train have to be chamfered above an below and have a polished sink. In wheels 0.15mm thick or less, a single chamfer is allowed on the bridge side.
GENEVA SEAL CRITERION NUMBER SEVEN
In wheel assemblies, the pivot shanks and the faces of the pinion leaves have to be polished.
GENEVA SEAL CRITERION NUMBER EIGHT
The escape wheel has to be light, not more than 0.16mm thick in large calibers and 0.13mm in calibers under 18mm, and its locking-faces have to be polished.
GENEVA SEAL CRITERION NUMBER NINE
The angle traversed by the lever is to be limited by fixed banking walls to the exclusion of pins or studs.
GENEVA SEAL CRITERIA NUMBER TEN
Movements fitted with shock proofing are accepted.
GENEVA SEAL CRITERION NUMBER ELEVEN
The ratchet wheel and the crown wheel should be finished according to registered patterns.
GENEVA SEAL CRITERION NUMBER TWELVE
Wire springs are not accepted.

[JPSP]

Geneva seal covers movements while PP seal applies to all of the manufacture’s movements regardless of their complexity. It not only applies to the movements: it encompasses cases, dials, hands, pushers, spring bars for straps, etc., as well as the aesthetic and functional aspects of the finished watches.

Still a PP regardless of what kind of seal isn't it?

[Alice]

I think the Geneva seal is a tradition of watch making history, highlighting the benchmarks of high quality watch. PP seal requires even more stringent criteria to meet than Geneva seal , is a way to distinguish themself from other brand.
But i still favour Geneva seal rather than creating  any other seal, It just not making any sense.  Will not be suprise in near future..... Tag Seal, Rolex seal, Omega seal etc etc. will emerge ..

[lilpronaz]

PP seal or Geneva seal, it's a marketing tool in today's term. A lot of brands without seal are very well finished. The seal may charm a non-WIS but then again, does it even matter even if PP doesn't carry a seal at all?

At the end of the day, PP is already at the pinnacle of the industry. The name sells itself. The seal is an added advantage.

In a way or another, I guess the same argument may apply to COSC.