Single Brand

[TheHobbit]

Will PAM become a trend or fashion just for a period of time? cause it seems like PAM is being "Goreng" in the market and the price is like crazy?

siodee,

Personally I hope it does and it can go back to being reasonably priced and collectors (real ones) can get the models they want and like. But the reality is I don't think so. Many nay sayers have predicted the 'death' of Panerai many times, but it is still going strong. However with that said, I think the prices of pre-loved Panerai have stabilised, even for hard to get models (well overseas anyway). In Asia, there is still a strong demand and the prices seems to be a bit crazy.

Many collectors are also getting a bit disillusioned with the direction Panerai seems to be heading, more so with the recent SE models. So it leaves to be seen what will happen next. They still produce very little watches (about 40 to 50 k watches a year) and demand is high. But you are seeing more and model models on the shelves as compared to say 5 years ago. The demand for popular ones are still high, like for the PAM00000, PAM00005, PAM00219, PAM00210.

[hanz079]

Siodee.... same here... maybe one of these days I will get a sterile homage to see if I can feel the allure of PAMs...

hanz079,

Firstly, hope the damage to the house was not too bad. Happy to know that there were no injuries.

Secondly, why Panerai? Well, it is because of the clean lines, simple design and stunning detail. It is a 'Rolex' on leather straps (flame suit on). Rolex on bracelet is what Panerai is on leather strap. Just change the strap and you have a new watch. Ease of strap change, just screw out the pins and change (not into the new quick release mechanism). You need to wear one and you will know.

Thanks for your concerns Hobbs... most of the damage is on the ceiling and floors...
Nothing that can't be repaired or replaced with money...
Children are a little shocked by the incident but nothing a good cuddling can't cure... 

As for the PAM allure... I am pretty surprised that you choose Rolex as an equal...
Yes I admit that I haven't strapped on any PAMs before but I will once I see my brother in law... he is wearing a PAM...
I understand the versatility of the PAMs... someone on another forum have like 2 PAMs but more than 30 straps!!
Seems like alot of ppl are in it as it is "the" watch to buy at the moment...
The high prices seems to point at Richemond milking it for what it's worth... can't blame them... they are after all a business...

Will PAM become a trend or fashion just for a period of time? cause it seems like PAM is being "Goreng" in the market and the price is like crazy?

Price is like crazy because there are ppl willing to pay...
Nothing much that we can do there.
But it does seems like quite alot are in it just to flip and make a couple of bucks...
Some ppl dun have any access to PAMs but some do... especially those that have close relationships with the ADs...
As for "goreng"... I agree...
As for wether the trend will pass or is it a trend at all... only time will tell..

[spoonfork]

To be frank I've been thinking a lot about PAM to a point where I am now de-queuing my list of watches to buy. Aesthetics have been a major factor. It's big no doubt, but the more I look at PAM the more alluring it gets.

But there's an odd observation: I've seen PAMs on ladies (in real life) and they're gorgeous! These are the 44mms mind you. I've seen PAM on guys (in real life) and they look rather plain and understated. It's probably because I'm used to seeing ladies wearing ladies' size watches.

[davidtth]

personally, if i were to choose rolex and pam, i'd go for pam, why? like other said, its simple and detail, easy reading and nice looking watch, attractive yet destreet enough (somehow it may no longer destreeted ? LOL)

i'm not too familiar with pam watch history, but seeing many changing their pam strap to enhance the look of the watch even better ! frenly speaker i love a watch because i love the see the transparent case back with moving parts behind, pam did very nice looking with their unique shape and design that attracted me a lot

sad to say i still cant affort any of the pam watch with see thru back, but i believe one day i'll get one into collection

[Peiseh]

IMHO, somewhere in that love, there's a sense of not wanting to appear over-killed with a lolek, especially if you are below mid.age.
PAM is contemporary simple looking if compared with a lolek..who usually is associated with senior folks, just like a Mercedes compared with a BMW, where the former is considered uncles' car, and the BMW a younger yuppie car.

[terrenceterrence]

Initially I was and is still thinking to focus on a single brand, not Panerais but Rolexes because I believe they cover almost if not all permutations in horology that I like. I have no interest in perpetuals, tourbillion, haute complication pieces anyway.

But every time I take a peek at the Chopard LUCs, UN Marines, AP ROs.. my heart skips a few beats. They offer such great deals and bargain in the preowned market. The finish, fit and passion that goes into it is quite unparalleled. Robust calibres for everyday practical use.

All I mean is that the road is long and the temptations a aplenty. To stay true is hard and all the best to your direction 

Anyway, having owned and is still owning one Pam, I am not impressed with the price, build and the offer that it is giving. Panerais is not discreet and its the opposite. But who am I to question passion? Omega's new 8500 PO is by far a better watch than the previous model Sub, but yet I would rather live with a Sub. To each their own I guess.


 I always do wonder, do u get cheaper ebauches if u order a 7750 without the chrono modules?

[G.MAC]

I think there is nothing wrong for a young guy to wear rolex at all. It is up to the person what watch he wants to wear. Should a 50+ year old man wearing a g shock be labelled as " sudah tua tapi masih mau mengaku muda"? I am in my mid- twenties and I am wearing a rolex. Like bro terrence says to each their own. Just be proud on what is around your wrist.

[TheHobbit]

Initially I was and is still thinking to focus on a single brand, not Panerais but Rolexes because I believe they cover almost if not all permutations in horology that I like. I have no interest in perpetuals, tourbillion, haute complication pieces anyway.

But every time I take a peek at the Chopard LUCs, UN Marines, AP ROs.. my heart skips a few beats. They offer such great deals and bargain in the preowned market. The finish, fit and passion that goes into it is quite unparalleled. Robust calibres for everyday practical use.

All I mean is that the road is long and the temptations a aplenty. To stay true is hard and all the best to your direction 

Anyway, having owned and is still owning one Pam, I am not impressed with the price, build and the offer that it is giving. Panerais is not discreet and its the opposite. But who am I to question passion? Omega's new 8500 PO is by far a better watch than the previous model Sub, but yet I would rather live with a Sub. To each their own I guess.


 I always do wonder, do u get cheaper ebauches if u order a 7750 without the chrono modules?

terrenceterrence,

It was also in my mind to swing and make Rolex the core of my collection. Saying that I don't really like the cyclops on the Rolex. That in itself has limited the selection available to me, with the likes of the Submariner, DeepSea SeaDweller, Milgauss and Daytona. I already have the SeaDweller and the GMT Master and the DSSD does not do it for me neither does the Milgauss nor does the Daytona.

As for my future direction and future temptations, I have to say that I will stay fast and steady. Even collecting Panerai will come to an end soon. I am looking at a Destro and a base and maybe a logo. The PAM00219 answers the Destro and base need. The logo? Maybe yes maybe no as I am not really into the logo. We will have to see.

I have been shown a number of interesting pieces at very interesting prices (by my so call friends, with them you don't need enemies), but the watches did not hold any interest. Even the recent trip to HK did not spark any interest. I actually walked past Heritage 1881 without visiting any of the watch shops there. Same along Nathan Road. The only shop I did actually stop was the Panerai Boutique at Canton Road and that caused a huge dent in the wallet.....

I have been 'collecting' watches for about 20 years now and I think the interest may not be as strong now as it was before. I still do buy and subscribe to watch magazines (in English, Japanese and Chinese, but can only read English), I still do read books on watches, having just picked up the latest edition of the book 'Wristwatches' by Gisbert L. Brunner and Christian Pfeiffer-Belli. I still write my blog. I still visit watch forums (actually MWF and MWR are the only two I visit nowadays).

Yes there are a number of pieces I would still like to get, but at the same time, I don't seem to be able to justify getting them. I would still want to get an Omega Moon watch, I would still like to get a German watch (with a German made movement) and I would still like to get an AP Royal Oak Chrono (none of the ROO stuff). But as time (pun not intended) goes by, the need seems to dwindle.

At the moment my collection stand at these watches (those that I have confirm I will not cull from the collection):

Panerai
PAM00003
PAM00111
PAM00183
PAM00243
PAM00337
PAM00367

Rolex
GMT Master
SeaDweller 4000

Omega
X-33
Seamaster Chrono Professional

Breitling
Aerospace

Sinn
U1 Lemon

Breguet
Type XX Transatlantique

Tutima
Military NATO Chronograph TL

Tudor
Heritage Chrono
Snowflake

IWC
Mk XV
Mk XV Spitfire Limited Edition

Hamilton
G10 RAF issued

Marathon
SAR
JSAR

MKII
Stingray 50

Precista
G10 RAF issued

Seiko
Orange Monster
SKX007

That is a grand total of 25 watches. Plenty for 2 wrist don't you think so? Time to stop I think.

[Gigi]

I think there is nothing wrong for a young guy to wear rolex at all. It is up to the person what watch he wants to wear. Should a 50+ year old man wearing a g shock be labelled as " sudah tua tapi masih mau mengaku muda"? I am in my mid- twenties and I am wearing a rolex. Like bro terrence says to each their own. Just be proud on what is around your wrist.

Well in my opinion its ok for young man to wear rolex provided he is not showing off and know the stuff inside the watch instead of knowing only it bear the rolex logo.

[G.MAC]

A person who is gunning for a single brand is a person who knows what he wants and what he wants to achieve for his collection. There is nothing wrong with going for a single brand. 25 watches may seem like too many but for a collector or a WIS, there is no such thing as too many . As for wearing a rolex, i dont think it is the watch that helps him to show off. A showy person will show off with anything and not necessarily a rolex. As long as it is expensive or can be perceived to be expensive. As for knowledge, i know those who comment badly on lesser-known brands such as glycine, seiko, tissot, bell & ross with their minute knowledge. These are the 'tin kosong'.Everything only rolex or omega. Those that know a lot are very far and few in between. It seems that knowing a lot doesnt really help as I realise it is more for personal knowledge and self-satisfaction. I got a friend who buys watches by brands and when adviced by me, his retort is, " aiya, what is so great about movement, power reserve, frequency, COSC,accuracy?. This is solid gold... You busybody for what? Jealous ah?" From then on i just keep the knowledge to myself.  

[Gigi]

A person who is gunning for a single brand is a person who knows what he wants and what he wants to achieve for his collection. There is nothing wrong with going for a single brand. 25 watches may seem like too many but for a collector or a WIS, there is no such thing as too many . As for wearing a rolex, i dont think it is the watch that helps him to show off. A showy person will show off with anything and not necessarily a rolex. As long as it is expensive or can be perceived to be expensive. As for knowledge, i know those who comment badly on lesser-known brands such as glycine, seiko, tissot, bell & ross with their minute knowledge. These are the 'tin kosong'.Everything only rolex or omega. Those that know a lot are very far and few in between. It seems that knowing a lot doesnt really help as I realise it is more for personal knowledge and self-satisfaction. I got a friend who buys watches by brands and when adviced by me, his retort is, " aiya, what is so great about movement, power reserve, frequency, COSC,accuracy?. This is solid gold... You busybody for what? Jealous ah?" From then on i just keep the knowledge to myself.

Lol i met some ppl like this too... We can do a thread abt these ppl if we want to... Sigh better to keep to ppl with like minded. No point sharing with ppl who care abt brand only.... I got ppl told me what the heck so nice abt seiko....

[lilpronaz]

Brand is important despite the contention that it is not. Knowing the mechanics in detail is not a must to appreciate the watch. A WIS is not necessary a person who forgo brand and concentrate on the movement alone. Aesthetic, brand, movement, finishing and a myriad of other factors make up the art of appreciating watches. Some people choose a combination of factors; some just based on a single factor.

It is not wrong if there are people who appreciate the watch because of the brand or cost. Simply put it, there are many ways a person can appreciate a watch. As with all watch forums, people congregate to exchange ideas about watches, not to condemn each other's way of appreciating something. Hence, we should refrain from vilifying people who appreciate watches from the brand or cost angle alone.

To each his own - there is no right or wrong. My 2 cents worth of thoughts.

[TheHobbit]

lilpronaz,

Interesting insight you have put forward. I don't think the comment were vilifying people who appreciate watches from the brand or cost angle but rather the opposite. The message being put across is that there are people who buys watches based on brand but don't know why they are buying it. Also there are those who knows only a particular brand and seems to think that the brand is the best at what they do and lesser brands or cheaper watches are inferior.

It is sad when you meet up with people who buys a watch but have no knowledge of why they bought a watch, but bought it because it is the trend or the in watch at the moment. There are many such instance. I have a friend that says bad things about the German brand Nomos. Why? Because it is cheap. He claims that they do not make their own movement but buys them from ETA, unlike Sinn. You tell them otherwise and he still does not believe you because how can it be done at that price?

I have friends (collectors no less) that would readily put down brand like Glycine, Tutima, Oris or any lesser known brand against brand like Rolex. Really? When you ask them what they know about Tutima, they say it is a lousy brand that makes lousy watches. Well, if Tutima did not exist we may not have had the revival of A. Lange & Sohne.

As you said, it is not wrong to appreciate watches based on brands or cost, but at least do not put down other brands as a lesser brand or cheaper watches as bad watches. I showed a friend recently a MKII watch. He was pretty impressed until he found out the watch cost slightly less then RM2K. Immediately he said the watch must have some problems as it is too cheap. Sad isn't it?

Additionally, if you appreciate a watch based on the brand, should you at least know a little about the brand? Case in point (the usual one I use), friend buy a destro Panerai. Pays RM26K for the watch. First person he comes to after buying the watch is me. He ask why the crown on the wrong side? Can it be repaired? I ask him, why did you buy the watch? He say that he likes the brand. I ask him, did you ask the guy who sold you the watch why the crown is on the wrong side. He says no, malu people will think he does not know about the brand. It is this type of people that we are 'vilifying'.

Another case in point. Another friend ask me to go with him to buy a watch. We go into the boutique and he say he would like to buy a diver watch. The SA ask if he wants the Submariner or the SeaDweller. He say no he wants an Explorer II. The SA tells him the the Explorer II is not a diving watch. My friend says it is as he knows a lot about Rolex as it is his favourite brand.

I could go on and on but I hope you get what I am getting at. Brand is important, no doubt about it. If not Rolex, PP, AP, Panerai, Seiko, Casio would not be able to sell their watches. But there is a need to know a bit more then just being able to reel off brand names but with little or no knowledge about the brand. Also price does not relate to quality.

[kenixck]

don't stop, 6 more to go 

then you can have 1 watch per day for a whole month.

mine currently at 7. (24 more to go) - hopefully 1 add-on per year.

[Watchnewby]

I think there is nothing wrong for a young guy to wear rolex at all. It is up to the person what watch he wants to wear. Should a 50+ year old man wearing a g shock be labelled as " sudah tua tapi masih mau mengaku muda"? I am in my mid- twenties and I am wearing a rolex. Like bro terrence says to each their own. Just be proud on what is around your wrist.

Well in my opinion its ok for young man to wear rolex provided he is not showing off and know the stuff inside the watch instead of knowing only it bear the rolex logo.

Agreed with Gigi's comment. 

Lol i met some ppl like this too... We can do a thread abt these ppl if we want to... Sigh better to keep to ppl with like minded. No point sharing with ppl who care abt brand only.... I got ppl told me what the heck so nice abt seiko....

If this people meet Seiko's fans, then they will get " Seiko is nice, got their own inhouse mevement. Price also caters to lower end up to premium prices. And ..... etc"

[siodee]

lilpronaz,

Interesting insight you have put forward. I don't think the comment were vilifying people who appreciate watches from the brand or cost angle but rather the opposite. The message being put across is that there are people who buys watches based on brand but don't know why they are buying it. Also there are those who knows only a particular brand and seems to think that the brand is the best at what they do and lesser brands or cheaper watches are inferior.

It is sad when you meet up with people who buys a watch but have no knowledge of why they bought a watch, but bought it because it is the trend or the in watch at the moment. There are many such instance. I have a friend that says bad things about the German brand Nomos. Why? Because it is cheap. He claims that they do not make their own movement but buys them from ETA, unlike Sinn. You tell them otherwise and he still does not believe you because how can it be done at that price?

I have friends (collectors no less) that would readily put down brand like Glycine, Tutima, Oris or any lesser known brand against brand like Rolex. Really? When you ask them what they know about Tutima, they say it is a lousy brand that makes lousy watches. Well, if Tutima did not exist we may not have had the revival of A. Lange & Sohne.

As you said, it is not wrong to appreciate watches based on brands or cost, but at least do not put down other brands as a lesser brand or cheaper watches as bad watches. I showed a friend recently a MKII watch. He was pretty impressed until he found out the watch cost slightly less then RM2K. Immediately he said the watch must have some problems as it is too cheap. Sad isn't it?

Additionally, if you appreciate a watch based on the brand, should you at least know a little about the brand? Case in point (the usual one I use), friend buy a destro Panerai. Pays RM26K for the watch. First person he comes to after buying the watch is me. He ask why the crown on the wrong side? Can it be repaired? I ask him, why did you buy the watch? He say that he likes the brand. I ask him, did you ask the guy who sold you the watch why the crown is on the wrong side. He says no, malu people will think he does not know about the brand. It is this type of people that we are 'vilifying'.

Another case in point. Another friend ask me to go with him to buy a watch. We go into the boutique and he say he would like to buy a diver watch. The SA ask if he wants the Submariner or the SeaDweller. He say no he wants an Explorer II. The SA tells him the the Explorer II is not a diving watch. My friend says it is as he knows a lot about Rolex as it is his favourite brand.

I could go on and on but I hope you get what I am getting at. Brand is important, no doubt about it. If not Rolex, PP, AP, Panerai, Seiko, Casio would not be able to sell their watches. But there is a need to know a bit more then just being able to reel off brand names but with little or no knowledge about the brand. Also price does not relate to quality.

Well said  , coincidentally, I also bump into some of this people. Because each individual is different, that is why it is so interesting to study the human behavior. I must say there is no right and wrong, just different preference. And partly due to that, that is why forum become a place to share the thoughts, and I like to keep it up that way, so we can see some interesting story... 

Just my 25 cents, I skip 24, because not a nice number

P/S : Likewise, I think the yellow baju kurung is Hot, but majority think otherwise 

[hanz079]

"Also there are those who knows only a particular brand and seems to think that the brand is the best at what they do and lesser brands or cheaper watches are inferior. "

"It is sad when you meet up with people who buys a watch but have no knowledge of why they bought a watch, but bought it because it is the trend or the in watch at the moment."

"As you said, it is not wrong to appreciate watches based on brands or cost, but at least do not put down other brands as a lesser brand or cheaper watches as bad watches."

"Additionally, if you appreciate a watch based on the brand, should you at least know a little about the brand?"


"I could go on and on but I hope you get what I am getting at. Brand is important, no doubt about it. But there is a need to know a bit more then just being able to reel off brand names but with little or no knowledge about the brand. Also price does not relate to quality."

Mr.Hobbs, you couldn't have said it better... 
I personally dislike a person that is filthy rich and able to afford high end time pieces but likes to put down other brands... especially when they are attacking what you have on the wrist...

[Watchnewby]

It is not wrong if there are people who appreciate the watch because of the brand or cost. Simply put it, there are many ways a person can appreciate a watch. As with all watch forums, people congregate to exchange ideas about watches, not to condemn each other's way of appreciating something. Hence, we should refrain from vilifying people who appreciate watches from the brand or cost angle alone.

To each his own - there is no right or wrong. My 2 cents worth of thoughts.

Agreed 100%. Good comment.

Also agreed to comments from The Hobbit on some people seems to think that certain brand is the best at what they do and lesser brands or cheaper watches are inferior.

It is a sad case when you meet up with people who buys a watch but do not know the reason except following the trend or fashion. Nothing wrong with buying fashionable watches but the comment you get from some of these people is, "Why Rolex or Seikos? Their range never change one, looks always the same unlike Huga Boss or Guess watch".

100% agreed on this too: "As you said, it is not wrong to appreciate watches based on brands or cost, but at least do not put down other brands as a lesser brand or cheaper watches as bad watches."

This is Good = "Also price does not relate to quality." 

[G.MAC]

Mr.Hobbs, you couldn't have said it better... 
I personally dislike a person that is filthy rich and able to afford high end time pieces but likes to put down other brands... especially when they are attacking what you have on the wrist...

I support this statement 110%

[lilpronaz]

It is sad when you meet up with people who buys a watch but have no knowledge of why they bought a watch, but bought it because it is the trend or the in watch at the moment.

I showed a friend recently a MKII watch. He was pretty impressed until he found out the watch cost slightly less then RM2K. Immediately he said the watch must have some problems as it is too cheap. Sad isn't it?

Additionally, if you appreciate a watch based on the brand, should you at least know a little about the brand? Case in point (the usual one I use), friend buy a destro Panerai. Pays RM26K for the watch. First person he comes to after buying the watch is me. He ask why the crown on the wrong side?

Hobbit, yes, I may have misinterpreted some of the points in the thread and may have prematurely formed a wrong conclusion in presenting my thoughts. You have presented some interesting cases which I couldn't help laughing out loud when reading it. Although your acquaintances/friends are hilarious in their skewed perception of branding and product recognition, they are not alone as there are many similar people out there aka layman. As for me, I rather not reproach them even if the person may put across a silly notion about the watch brand, etc. No point breaking a sweat to educate them or getting upset if those ignorant fools are not willing to listen.

As the saying goes, "to err is human, to forgive is divine". Just let them be

[spoonfork]

It is sad when you meet up with people who buys a watch but have no knowledge of why they bought a watch, but bought it because it is the trend or the in watch at the moment. There are many such instance. I have a friend that says bad things about the German brand Nomos. Why? Because it is cheap. He claims that they do not make their own movement but buys them from ETA, unlike Sinn. You tell them otherwise and he still does not believe you because how can it be done at that price?

Unfortunately for these types of people, the problem lies in ignorance, but it is not their fault entirely. The most prevalent deciding factor that I can think of when these types of people buy watches are based on the power of advertising and brand perception. Advertising terms such as "a crown for every achievement", "watches for the very few since...", "follow your conviction", "individually crafted", "a racing machine on the wrist", etc are good at getting attention, heightening interest, and creating desire. Above all - desire. Now, splash a pretty face, a world class ambassador, an unknown explorer you've never heard of but who looks like he can conquer Mt Everest with just a can of mackerel as food ration - just because he can: double the desire.

The point is - as a WIS, and groups of people who knows watches, we should take the higher ground and educate them. I guess that's what this forum and countless others are for.

--mel
 

[hanz079]

It is sad when you meet up with people who buys a watch but have no knowledge of why they bought a watch, but bought it because it is the trend or the in watch at the moment. There are many such instance. I have a friend that says bad things about the German brand Nomos. Why? Because it is cheap. He claims that they do not make their own movement but buys them from ETA, unlike Sinn. You tell them otherwise and he still does not believe you because how can it be done at that price?

Unfortunately for these types of people, the problem lies in ignorance, but it is not their fault entirely. The most prevalent deciding factor that I can think of when these types of people buy watches are based on the power of advertising and brand perception. Advertising terms such as "a crown for every achievement", "watches for the very few since...", "follow your conviction", "individually crafted", "a racing machine on the wrist", etc are good at getting attention, heightening interest, and creating desire. Above all - desire. Now, splash a pretty face, a world class ambassador, an unknown explorer you've never heard of but who looks like he can conquer Mt Everest with just a can of mackerel as food ration - just because he can: double the desire.

The point is - as a WIS, and groups of people who knows watches, we should take the higher ground and educate them. I guess that's what this forum and countless others are for.

--mel

Problem lies in the hard headedness of some rich snobs who has an ego of a tanker that refused to listen to anything other ppl has to say...

[spoonfork]

Problem lies in the hard headedness of some rich snobs who has an ego of a tanker that refused to listen to anything other ppl has to say...

Which reminds me of another advertisement with the statement: "the ego has landed"

[Watchnewby]

The point is - as a WIS, and groups of people who knows watches, we should take the higher ground and educate them. I guess that's what this forum and countless others are for.

--mel

True, education about horology is good.
Am also learning new things in MWF.

What hanz mentioned about stubborness by the non-WIS also hold true. 

[siodee]

Problem lies in the hard headedness of some rich snobs who has an ego of a tanker that refused to listen to anything other ppl has to say...

Which reminds me of another advertisement with the statement: "the ego has landed"

Not all are like that, some willing to listen and learn, but there some like what have mentioned here, Ego is big, in return, he/she will say that " that is why you still sit in office and can't effort it...." , no point argue, cause it is not my lost...

P/S: Come to think about it, damn, he/ she is right, I am sitting in office