Sales Pitch B*S*

[terrenceterrence]

Love those SA's

sometimes the stuff that comes out from their mouth really makes me chuckle. 

try to go in to any AD's or pre-owned shops and enquire about an Exp1 and Exp2 and they'll tell you it's worth collecting and now that it's not in production anymore.. prices would definitely go up!!!

yeah right..there are millions and millions of them floating around. u think anytime the rest of the millions would just suddenly self combust and your's would be the only one not doing so? now that would be collectible if that happens.

 

[duke916sps]

And that, is hw me wife sucked into the Rolex sucking machine...... Buy ah, next year price increase loh ....... then u can sell and still make money... MAKE WHAT MONEY?

[G.MAC]

Thats how they get customers to part with their money. Research is very important.

[Paulkky]

Buying a Limited Production pcs perhaps.............

[terrenceterrence]

also not to mention the bulls*it about PAms being Limited Editions...

they would also tell u that all these "out of production" Rolex models would be collectible. no modern Rolexes are collectible anymore. Collectible for individual personal satisfaction yes... but to make mega big bucks down the years? wishful thinking.

there are millions of these around the world. it's not like those acrylic model days where the production numbers are still lower and no modern sapphire crystal models would be considered a vintage unless you have some anomalies like a cream dial explorer, inverted 6 zenith powered daytona and etc... IMHO

 

[duke916sps]

Buying a Limited Production pcs perhaps.............

Not mentioning brand here, I asked the AD, So how limited is limited? ( expecting may be 100 - 500 pieces..... ) He said: vely limited ! 5,000.. I walked out ...

[terrenceterrence]

Buying a Limited Production pcs perhaps.............

Not mentioning brand here, I asked the AD, So how limited is limited? ( expecting may be 100 - 500 pieces..... ) He said: vely limited ! 5,000.. I walked out ...

That is how they suckered my wife into buying he Tssot Porto watch too.
So called limited to 6666

[takashi78]

Anything more than 50 is not considered limited to me.

[shifter]

I have a neutral stand on this.
So long demand outstrips supply, be it limited or otherwise, there is a chance for ANY watch to command a higher than usual price. Even if I have a one off watch made for me and there is no demand for it, limited editions would mean nothing. As to millions of exp II rolls out there, if demand for it is still higher, then its anyone's guess if 'sell' price is higher or will get higher...

[terrenceterrence]

i guess it's the kiasu mentality that most ppl have and they have never learnt from it.

there are so many cases of "water fishes"

remember SD and GMTii when the new replacement models were announced? the pre-owned prices and BNIB prices sky rocketed and now how much are the prices of these watches?

heard of the person who paid RM40k got the GV when it first came out? now the ADs can't even move the Milgauss as much as they like

ppl always wanna feel unique and special..hence these so called "limited edition" .."limited production run"...."rarity"....."first to have" sells

look at the amount of ppl lining up for the new launches of every apple products

[G.MAC]

speaking of limited edition, if the production is only to 6666 models, then it is true that it is limited. Just not limited enough to justify a high price tag. The fella is not lying if he said it is limited Up to buyers to not fall for the trick of the SA

[chrisyen]

Anything more than 50 is not considered limited to me.

so if this yr blue dial limited to 30 pieces
next yr red dial limited to 30 pieces
and another yr 30 pieces with carbon dial
 

[Gigi]

Panerai??!!! Dunno what is teh fuss abt it? Lucky i never get one last time  Now see the brand so saturated... Military diver use it to bomb the sub... lol

[Scott C.]

I have a neutral stand on this.
So long demand outstrips supply, be it limited or otherwise, there is a chance for ANY watch to command a higher than usual price. Even if I have a one off watch made for me and there is no demand for it, limited editions would mean nothing. As to millions of exp II rolls out there, if demand for it is still higher, then its anyone's guess if 'sell' price is higher or will get higher...

+1 

[TheHobbit]

Military diver use it to bomb the sub... lol

Actually the military divers use the watch to mine Allied ships in the Mediterranean during WWII. The subs that they use is called the SLC (Siluro a Lenta Corsa). These assault crafts were used by the Decima Flottiglia MAS (10th MAS Flotilla). The SLC (Slow Running Torpedo) is also known as 'Maiale' or Pig. The SLC were the brain child of two Naval Engineers, Teseo Tesei and Elios Toschi.

The most popular exploit of the SLC team is the raid held between December 18th and 19th, 1941. The 3 SLC teams managed to sink the HMS Valiant, HMS Queen Elizabeth and cause damage to the tanker Sagona and the destroyer Jervis. 

[hanz079]

Military diver use it to bomb the sub... lol

Actually the military divers use the watch to mine Allied ships in the Mediterranean during WWII. The subs that they use is called the SLC (Siluro a Lenta Corsa). These assault crafts were used by the Decima Flottiglia MAS (10th MAS Flotilla). The SLC (Slow Running Torpedo) is also known as 'Maiale' or Pig. The SLC were the brain child of two Naval Engineers, Teseo Tesei and Elios Toschi.

The most popular exploit of the SLC team is the raid held between December 18th and 19th, 1941. The 3 SLC teams managed to sink the HMS Valiant, HMS Queen Elizabeth and cause damage to the tanker Sagona and the destroyer Jervis. 

Bro, reading your posts and looking at your collection, I think you can be certified as a walking dictionary of horology? 

[Broleo]

well for non-WIS, the mere mentioned LE, SA will try to gauge customer interest, if shown enough interest, then they will attack

Im no LE collector or buyer (cant afford the 'real' LE series) hence no interest atm on LE on any watches.

my 2 cents

[TheHobbit]

hanzo079,

Bro, walking dictionary of horology? Not even close. Lots to learn and learn we will, together.

With regards to special edition, limited edition, limited production, etc... it is a case of willing buyer and willing seller. Many people have had experience with watch companies introducing special edition, limited edition etc, only to see these watches or a variant becoming normal edition watches in the future. They complain, and swear never to buy the brand. Yet, these very people still come back (again and again) and buy when new Special Edition, Limited Edition etc comes out. It is just the way things are. Perhaps it is hope that in the future these watches can provide better return to investment, perhaps a love for the brand, perhaps wanting to be one of the Joneses, one-upmanship, lack of knowledge, etc...what ever the reason, there will always people who will want and buy these watches. And who are we going blame? The watch companies? Nope they are there to make money, as is any normal business. They see a demand, they take advantage of the situation, after all 'make hay while the sun shines'.

The SA? Well they are there to make money, they get paid commission. So they will prey on us and do I blame them? Nope.

[Q]

To the Hobbit I am enamoured by your WW2 history of the Italian Navy in regards to the Marina Militare. Indeed there is some truth to the specialty of the marina militare then. Btw can you share with us whether any rolexes were used in wars. I am looking to confirm this with my military war buddies.Cheers.

[TheHobbit]

To the Hobbit I am enamoured by your WW2 history of the Italian Navy in regards to the Marina Militare. Indeed there is some truth to the specialty of the marina militare then. Btw can you share with us whether any rolexes were used in wars. I am looking to confirm this with my military war buddies.Cheers.

Q,

I am still learning about watches used or connected with the military. I was told that even the Malaysian Royal Navy officers (don't what grade) are issued with Panerai watches. They have to give them back once they leave the service. I, however cannot confirm this.

As for Rolex and WWII, I suspect that Rolex itself were not issued in WWII. Some say that pilots of the RAF did buy them (on a personal capacity). However Rolex did issue watches to British POW. You can read about it here:

http://www.timezone.com/library/extras/200704246126

Rolex were issued in the 70s to the British military and I am sure many of us are aware of the prices these watches fetch in the open market, more so if there is a history or documents attached to it (Tudors were issued to the French military). The reference 5513 and 5517 with sword hands and 'T' dial were examples of these issued watches.

Interesting to note that even the Omega Speedmaster (the moonwatch) has some military links, with the navy no less. What with its limited water resistant rating, the watch was used on the USSN Ohio, which I believe is a submarine. Figure that one out...

[zameenzahari]

To the Hobbit I am enamoured by your WW2 history of the Italian Navy in regards to the Marina Militare. Indeed there is some truth to the specialty of the marina militare then. Btw can you share with us whether any rolexes were used in wars. I am looking to confirm this with my military war buddies.Cheers.

Some of the Vintage wartime panerai (ref.6152) utilized Rolex movements (Cal 618/Type 2 with subtle differences like different bridge engravings and position of ROLEX and 15 Rubies) ; and also the ref.3646 with Rolex Cal. 618/Type 1.

Panerai??!!! Dunno what is teh fuss abt it? Lucky i never get one last time   Now see the brand so saturated... Military diver use it to bomb the sub... lol

yeah, saturated it might be, but please tell me any brand today that can have a model sold for USD 6,500 retail being valued/traded in the secondary market (within few months of release) for USD 25k-30k? I can....just google up PAM360...and if you had gotten pieces the "last time" say like circa 1993-1997, you'll be laughing not on the floor but all the way to the bank when you see a USD 2k piece becomes at least  USD 35k onwards now (google up 5218/201a)..or say even later at circa 1998/1999 when a piece that cost 3k SGD are now upwards 18k-26k SGD...(google up pre-A 1, 1A,2A, 2Bt etc....)...now, still consider yourself lucky or not?

[TheHobbit]

yeah, saturated it might be, but please tell me any brand today that can have a model sold for USD 6,500 retail being valued/traded in the secondary market (within few months of release) for USD 25k-30k? I can....just google up PAM360...and if you had gotten pieces the "last time" say like circa 1993-1997, you'll be laughing not on the floor but all the way to the bank when you see a USD 2k piece becomes at least  USD 35k onwards now (google up 5218/201a)..or say even later at circa 1998/1999 when a piece that cost 3k SGD are now upwards 18k-26k SGD...(google up pre-A 1, 1A,2A, 2Bt etc....)...now, still consider yourself lucky or not?

Paper gain until realised. The question is 'Do you want to realise the value? Can you get another one if you want to get it back?' Still I have to agree with zameen, not many brands can claim this (at the moment). They can launch as many special, limited or what ever edition, all will sell out. The 'q' for the 372, I understand is pretty long and at USD 10,100, it is not cheap. Willing buyer, willing seller.

[hanz079]

Yeah, I have to agree with Hobbit.
It's like playing with shares, the value go up... but still in paper unless you sell it.
Look at the statement saying "wow, I'm xxxx amount richer" doesn't actually make you richer but it makes you FEEL richer.
Same like watches, buying a piece that will go up in value in the future? Yeah, but once you cash it in... that's it, no more, nadaaa...
Unless you buy 2 of a piece that is, one to sell and one too wear.
I have dozens of friends telling me, Bro... dun spend ridiculous amount of wad on a watch unless it's Panerai or Rolex...
My answer is, what if I dun like it? Buy it just for the sake coz it's reselling value?
Then wear it and say "damn, I dun like this watch"?
But that said, Panerai's market is currently fuelled by the hard core paneristi and even the normal non watch lover is getting in the action.
Ppl with money just buy and then later sell without even wearing the damn thing!!

[zameenzahari]

Yeah, I have to agree with Hobbit.
It's like playing with shares, the value go up... but still in paper unless you sell it.
Look at the statement saying "wow, I'm xxxx amount richer" doesn't actually make you richer but it makes you FEEL richer.
Same like watches, buying a piece that will go up in value in the future? Yeah, but once you cash it in... that's it, no more, nadaaa...
Unless you buy 2 of a piece that is, one to sell and one too wear.
I have dozens of friends telling me, Bro... dun spend ridiculous amount of wad on a watch unless it's Panerai or Rolex...
My answer is, what if I dun like it? Buy it just for the sake coz it's reselling value?
Then wear it and say "damn, I dun like this watch"?
But that said, Panerai's market is currently fuelled by the hard core paneristi and even the normal non watch lover is getting in the action.
Ppl with money just buy and then later sell without even wearing the damn thing!!

Well, I am not disputing that a value is only "paper" until you realized it- that is common sense that I am sure each and everyone of us knows. What I am saying that with Panerai, saturated or not, there is a possibility of you cashing in on those hard to get pieces, if for whatever reason you want to and make some gains. I am not saying buy Panerai coz of its investment value...if you want to invest buy Gold bars and you are much better off than ANY watches.

Personally, I only buy those pieces that I like. For instance the re-edition of PAM29 doesnt appeal to me , so I dont go out and rush to get it although it is an SE piece. I buy those that I like, period. Any increase in value (perceived, realised, paper etc), I'll take it as a bonus but not the sole consideration. I always tell my friends to buy pieces that sings to you either a $100 piece or $10,000 coz ultimately it'll be you who will be wearing it.

[hanz079]

Yeah, I have to agree with Hobbit.
It's like playing with shares, the value go up... but still in paper unless you sell it.
Look at the statement saying "wow, I'm xxxx amount richer" doesn't actually make you richer but it makes you FEEL richer.
Same like watches, buying a piece that will go up in value in the future? Yeah, but once you cash it in... that's it, no more, nadaaa...
Unless you buy 2 of a piece that is, one to sell and one too wear.
I have dozens of friends telling me, Bro... dun spend ridiculous amount of wad on a watch unless it's Panerai or Rolex...
My answer is, what if I dun like it? Buy it just for the sake coz it's reselling value?
Then wear it and say "damn, I dun like this watch"?
But that said, Panerai's market is currently fuelled by the hard core paneristi and even the normal non watch lover is getting in the action.
Ppl with money just buy and then later sell without even wearing the damn thing!!

Well, I am not disputing that a value is only "paper" until you realized it- that is common sense that I am sure each and everyone of us knows. What I am saying that with Panerai, saturated or not, there is a possibility of you cashing in on those hard to get pieces, if for whatever reason you want to and make some gains. I am not saying buy Panerai coz of its investment value...if you want to invest buy Gold bars and you are much better off than ANY watches.

Personally, I only buy those pieces that I like. For instance the re-edition of PAM29 doesnt appeal to me , so I dont go out and rush to get it although it is an SE piece. I buy those that I like, period. Any increase in value (perceived, realised, paper etc), I'll take it as a bonus but not the sole consideration. I always tell my friends to buy pieces that sings to you either a $100 piece or $10,000 coz ultimately it'll be you who will be wearing it.