Author Topic: Which brands are really honest about their past?  (Read 22758 times)

Offline mongourou

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Which brands are really honest about their past?
« on: August 21, 2017, 02:59:12 PM »
Hi All,

The more I dig into this passion of ours, the more I get irritated by how some companies communicate about their history.

I guess it is similar to us with our CV. It is always a bit embarrassing to present a 2 year gap in our resume so we might arrange it by adapting the truth to what we want to communicate to the HR. Or oversell our managerial and technical skills. Human nature!

Some companies have such a long and well-documented history that there is no reason for them to lie (sorry I should say to embellish reality). Names like PP, AP and VC come directly to mind.

But old brands that die a long time ago are sometimes resurrected just for banking on a name. Other companies will be bought back to fill a specific new market. Those new-old companies have little to do with what they were originally known for.

Others have massive gaps in their history with only a few hundred watches built over several decades, others shadowed smaller brands by taking the headlines on some accomplishment that they were not alone to achieve. You even have those very young companies (post 1990) having "Vintage" collections making you believe that they exist for a very long time.

Some lie about their history (also called revisionist histories), some lie about their technical achievements (changing the name of an ETA/Sellita base caliber or even slightly modified at the manufacture is not enough to be called in-house) while other start-up companies will buy old manufacturer names to avoid the pain of creating their own stories: "history=quality=prestige=I can charge you way more for a cheap case and an off the shelf non regulated movement".

But at the end, marketing departments get very good at selling this to people who will not, most of the time, check what is real and what is just fantasy.

One brand that gives me hope for the others is A. Lange & Soehne (even though I probably will never be able to afford one). Look at their website, go through their menu and check their "Our Saxon origin". Here you are, a clear gap between 1948 and 1990 reflecting their actual history.

This is honesty!



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Offline Danielo

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2017, 03:22:45 PM »
From my own knowledge Fortis and Panarai haven't been honest about their lineage.

Offline annn90s

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2017, 03:52:04 PM »
My humble opinion, it would be Seiko if you ask me.

BTW, just woild like to share this with those who knows and appreciates GS.

http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/annn90s/media/20170609_122417_zpspumwlxf7.jpg.html?sort=3&o=4

Offline Cocas

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2017, 04:18:23 PM »
Hi @mongourou.

Your "brand" here is referring the Watch Company or Watch Brand?

Eg. Q&Q is a watch brand of Citizen Watch Company.

Offline mongourou

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2017, 04:30:45 PM »
To the watch brand. For example, Panerai started embellishing its history way before it was bought by Richemont in 1997.


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Offline Cocas

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2017, 04:32:09 PM »
I sometimes categorise some watch brands as "Watch Brand" and not a "Watch Company".

Because I won't bother what and how the "watch brand" watch beautified its history or achievement.

Offline meoramri

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2017, 05:32:49 PM »
Commercial realities/fashion trends causes the 'rebirth' of many brands. If the marketeers can sell a lovely story, there will be people willing to buy them. One brand that comes to mind is Solvil et Titus


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Offline asimo

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Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2017, 05:41:12 PM »
I would say the brand start with " P", and " Bola.."  :Laughing_on_floor:

Honest brand maybe " Hamil...", lolex., Omega

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« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 07:19:18 PM by asimo »

Offline mongourou

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2017, 05:44:55 PM »
I believe that names can be given. Is it Balmain, Ball or Baume & Mercier you are referring to? I trust everybody knows where Panerai stands on this matter...


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Offline Danielo

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2017, 05:45:57 PM »
I would say the brand start with " P", and " Ba.."

Honest brand maybe " Ham.....", Ro..., Om...

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'P' made a killing with their story. Every Tom, Dick & Hairy bought one.

I always get a smile when I see a fella paying big bucks for a story.

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Offline mongourou

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2017, 06:04:56 PM »
And while I really, really like Rolex, they were not the last to use modified facts for their marketing even back in 1927. After Mercedes Gleitze successfully swam across the Channel on her 8th attempt, our good Hans Wilsdorf sponsored her two weeks later on her "Vindication Swim" to prove she really did it. She failed this time but it did not stop him to advertise about the success of the watch in newspapers.


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Offline mongourou

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2017, 06:13:11 PM »
Finally regarding Rolex, it is known that Tenzing Norgay was wearing one on top of Mount Everest in 1953 but nobody can really confirm if Sir Edmund Hillary wore a Rolex or a Smiths (apparently more towards Smiths). As he was the big lead there, Rolex still used him for marketing purpose stating this was the first watch on top of the world.


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Offline Danielo

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2017, 06:14:44 PM »
Was Omega really the first watch on the moon?

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Offline Danielo

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2017, 06:15:18 PM »
Or Fortis the first watch in space?

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Offline mongourou

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2017, 06:21:20 PM »
Or Fortis the first watch in space?

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Little doubt about the Omega Speedmaster being the first one worn on the Moon by the second guy who stood foot on it.

But for the first in space, whether you consider Gagarin or Leonov being the first in open space, it will have to be a Russian watch. Not sure about Gagarin but Leonov had a Strela.


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Offline Cocas

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2017, 06:40:15 PM »
For space expedition conducted by Russxx. Only the succeeded one got the publicity. All the previous unsucceeded space trips, especially the very first one, nobody really know what watch the cosmonaut was wearing.

Offline TheHobbit

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2017, 07:31:00 PM »
Just for interest sake, did Panerai fake its history? If so, how?

Offline mongourou

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2017, 07:32:37 PM »
I wan't talking about faking but about honesty. Big difference here.


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Offline TheHobbit

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2017, 07:47:59 PM »
I wan't talking about faking but about honesty. Big difference here.


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Ok... how was Panerai not honest?

Offline mongourou

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2017, 07:48:32 PM »
Is that a joke?


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Offline TheHobbit

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2017, 07:52:01 PM »
Is that a joke?


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Nope, not that I am aware off. Would like to know.

Offline mongourou

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Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2017, 08:46:22 PM »
Honestly (pun intended), you can appreciate the esthetic of a watch like Panerai but still realize that their tenuous legacy has been greatly exaggerated by Panerai and Richemont marketing departments.

Few hundreds watches were issued to Italian army between 1936 and the mid 50's with cases, movements and crowns made by Rolex before they switched to less expensive Angelus movements. This was followed by decades of silence before Sly resurrected the brand in the early 90's.

So yes they are collectible but only because they are incredibly rare as they were produced in infinitesimal quantity. Not because of a great history or great achievements.


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Offline TheHobbit

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2017, 09:25:57 PM »
Honestly (pun intended), you can appreciate the esthetic of a watch like Panerai but still realize that their tenuous legacy has been greatly exaggerated by Panerai and Richemont marketing departments.

Few hundreds watches were issued to Italian army between 1936 and the mid 50's with cases, movements and crowns made by Rolex before they switched to less expensive Angelus movements. This was followed by decades of silence before Sly resurrected the brand in the early 90's.

So yes they are collectible but only because they are incredibly rare as they were produced in infinitesimal quantity. Not because of a great history or great achievements.


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I agree with you 100% on this. But where in Panerai history were they dishonest? What did they exaggerate?

Offline Enkidu

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2017, 09:38:41 PM »
Panerai has a very long history...


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Offline dpkong

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Re: Which brands are really honest about their past?
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2017, 10:01:37 PM »
Fake! Did not see the patented crown guard there.