Omega's Push Upmarket

[Friedrice]

I have recently spotted an Omega Seamaster Day-Date Aqua Terra 85XX on my wife's Doctor. And up until sometime last year, Omega's are quite rare in the wild.

In 2015, alone I saw 3 different non-WIS with an Omega. One is my business contact who is wearing an Omega Seamaster Diver 300m. Another is spotted during a financial industry gathering on a very prominent public figure (he was wearing an Omega Speedmaster Dark Side of the Moon!). And of course my wife's gynaecologist in Pantai Hospital.

I have a feeling that Omega's are gaining more and more public attention. Before this, most non-WIS would be either wearing a TAG, Panerai or Rolex as their nice watch.

So, start hoarding all the Omega's you can find before they get stupidly expensive. I am already seeing a huge upward movement on Omega prices over the past 6 years...

What do you guys think? Will omega succeed in becoming the next Rolex? Even golf now is Omega territory... Which was quite shocking as Rolex used to be the main sponsor for golf events..

Edit : I just want to share a bit of technical stuff with my fellow forumers. Omega has been pushing the boundaries of Watch making with new and innovative materials. From the all ceramic case of the dark side of the moon and grey side of the moon to the usage of silicon in their new iteration of the caliber 8500G which are anti-magnetic to 15,000 Gauss (Rolex Milgauss is only anti magnetic to 1,000 Gauss).

They are also the only watch company in the world whom have managed to mass produced the co-axial escapement. This revolutionary escapement reduces friction and prolongs service intervals. My Omega GMT 2535.80 is still going strong after 5 years even though I am using it as a daily beater.

Omega is one of a few watch companies that is using a free sprung balance wheel. The other free sprung wheel watches are produced by Rolex and Patek Philippe. Even Jaeger LeCoultre is still using a regulated balance wheel.

All Omega's with caliber 93XX movements are column wheel chronographs, which are again, highly desirable and only found on higher end chronographs from Patek Philippe and Audemars Piguet.

Omega have been experimenting with silicon hairspring and balance wheel since late 2011 (in the caliber 8500B). The newest iteration 8500G has completely replaced certain parts with silicon to achieve the 15,000 Gauss anti-magnetic properties. It has been confirmed that any current 8500A and 8500B movements will be converted to the 8500G movement in future servicing. Kinda like when 2500B came out, all 2500A movements with teething problems were promptly replaced with the 2500B and 2500C movements when it is sent in for servicing. Now, the newest iteration of the heavily modified eta co-axial movement is 2500D, which are found in the newer Seamaster Bond 300m with ceramic bezel.

The only watch that they will not change is the speedmaster professional 3573 and 3570. These are running on Lemania based Omega Caliber 1863 and 1861. The Lemania movement is no longer sold outside of swatch group and they only make movements for Breguets. So, technically, all speedy pro's are running on movements supplied by Breguet!

My advice is get them now while they are cheap.

[WestwoodTrading]

To overtake rolex still takes sometime, to me right now omega watches are really can be seen in the market. But due to too many brands are doing marketing right now. Ball are doing quite well also in the market right now.

[Friedrice]

To overtake rolex still takes sometime, to me right now omega watches are really can be seen in the market. But due to too many brands are doing marketing right now. Ball are doing quite well also in the market right now.

Ball watches are only hot in Malaysia. Ball watches have no resale value. I owned two Ball watches and the build quality is nowhere near Rolex or Omega. Also, Ball is more of a follower and not a trendsetter. In order to do well in the over saturated watch market, you will need to set trends.

Ball red label chronometer are based heavily on Omega's Aqua Terra. Ball Engineer Divers are based on IWC Aquatimer with inner rotating bezel.

Everything a watch company does that is semi successful, Ball copies it. Hence, the used prices are not that spectacular.

I can resell my moon watch that I bought new 6 years ago for a slight profit now. The same cannot be said for my two Balls...

[Clicko]

Have to agree with you Omega is going upmarket with their push in innovation and marketing. Notice recent golf winners were presented an Omega to wear holding the trophy.

[Friedrice]

Have to agree with you Omega is going upmarket with their push in innovation and marketing. Notice recent golf winners were presented an Omega to wear holding the trophy.

Ya, even my father in law (avid golfer) is coming down to KL next week to look at a Grey Side of the Moon before GST. We might have to get it at the Pavillion boutique as it is very difficult to find. 

He was a Rolex guy until he realise that PGA is all about Omega's. Now he wants an Omega and he asked me for advice. I told him to get the Grey Side of the Moon so he is coming to KL to view it. He might go with another model in the end but he sure as heck is adamant about an Omega as his next watch. All his Golf buddies have Omega's too lol.

[Clicko]

Have to agree with you Omega is going upmarket with their push in innovation and marketing. Notice recent golf winners were presented an Omega to wear holding the trophy.

Ya, even my father in law (avid golfer) is coming down to KL next week to look at a Grey Side of the Moon before GST. We might have to get it at the Pavillion boutique as it is very difficult to find. 

He was a Rolex guy until he realise that PGA is all about Omega's. Now he wants an Omega and he asked me for advice. I told him to get the Grey Side of the Moon so he is coming to KL to view it. He might go with another model in the end but he sure as heck is adamant about an Omega as his next watch. All his Golf buddies have Omega's too lol.

Wow! Omega's intense marketing campaign is really powerful. I saw GSOTM at Starhill Boutique too.  Nice piece but too big and pricey for me.

BTW, GSOTM is not associated with golf. Aqua Terra yes. Maybe he wants to be special among his golf buddies 

[swleong]

No doubt Omega is a great brand and has made some legendary watches. Marketing wise they are on the right track by associating themselves with celebrities and elite sports and am sure they are gaining more market shares. 

But most non-WIS would be either wearing a TAG, Panerai or Rolex as their nice watch?? Seriously?? In my case, I've seen many WIS keeping and wearing Panerai and Rolex and more non-WIS wearing TAG (you are spot on), Omega and Seiko as their nice watches.

No offence but I can't help to ask a silly question, are you by any chance related to Swatch group?

P.S. i'm neither WIS nor Panerai and Rolex fanboy.

[jason_recliner]

A few cashed up friends commented last year that they were bored of Rolex, starting to get into omega. You still see a lot of Tags and Rolexes around, but definitely more and more Omegas, and definitely more expensive Omegas.

They can now only be purchased in watch boutiques, like the top brands, which is good for their image and value. But they've also backed up the push upmarket with impressive strides in quality and technology, as described in the OP.

Definitely a brand with great heritage on the move.

Disclaimer: I'm currently selling a Seamaster!

[Friedrice]

No offence but I can't help to ask a silly question, are you by any chance related to Swatch group?

P.S. i'm neither WIS nor Panerai and Rolex fanboy.

No I am not but I wish I was. I heard that Swatch Group employees get 40% discount on watch purchases.

I am just a collector like everyone else here. But I focus mainly on collecting Omega in the past few years after Rolex became too expensive for me to collect.

I may collect a few more Omega's before they become unaffordable. I heard their price increase this month will be between 5-10% depending on the model.

[TheHobbit]

Omega is a good brand if not great. Perhaps can do better if move out of the shadow of the Swatch Group. Additionally, it is not just selling the watches but also the after sales service which at the moment is rather patchy.

[meoramri]

If you strip off brands from watches, the value proposition for buyers are design, innovation, technology, style i.e. The things that make that particular watch special to you. In this case Omega has that innovative drive which appears absent in Rolex. Hence the increase in market share and interest from the general public.


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[GTH]

...The same cannot be said for my two Balls...

True bro, two old Balls will never get a good value...

If you strip off brands from watches, the value proposition for buyers are design, innovation, technology, style i.e. The things that make that particular watch special to you. In this case Omega has that innovative drive which appears absent in Rolex. Hence the increase in market share and interest from the general public.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's what I've been trying to explain to my friends for ages, strip them bare, remove brand, you still have an Omega.
Strip many brands bare, you have ETA. Even some "high end" brands.

The watches that get you what you pay for (in no particular order):
Blanqpain
Jaquet Droz
Breguet
Harry Winston
Jaeger LeCoutre
Ulysse Nardin
Cartier
Patek Phillipe
Vacheron Constantin
Glashutte Original
Girard-Perreguex
and some independant watches.

This list is just off what i can remember.

On one note, I have seen an Omega Co-axial Calibre 8500 perform on a timing machine before. It is so damn stable at different positions. average rate at 6 positions was like +1 or +2 per day. 

[Friedrice]

Food for thought : Omega recently snubbed COSC certification and instead came out with their more stringent testing. All Master Co-Axial watches are made and tested inside the Omega facility instead of COSC.

Compare this with Patek Philippe. Patek, a few years ago, removed the Geneva Seal from ALL their watches and instead went with a Patek Philippe seal. All modern Patek Philippe's are adorned with the PP seal on the movement while older ones have the Geneva seal.

The reason for the switch for BOTH companies are somewhat similar. Patek Philippe feel that Geneva accreditation is too lax and their watches surpasses the testing done by any accreditation company. Omega also felt that the COSC is not good enough to measure the accuracy of their timepieces so they made an even more stringent testing method to get within +0/+2 seconds per day. And the Master Co-Axial also tests the movement's anti-magnetic capabilities. I would imagine that every movement would have to be tested inside a live MRI machine for it to pass the 15,000 Gauss anti-magnetic test...

[TJWN]

some correction for column wheel part, just to provide more information on this

""All Omega's with caliber 93XX movements are column wheel chronographs, which are again, highly desirable and only found on higher end chronographs from Patek Philippe and Audemars Piguet.""

From my knowledge, currently other mid end brand also offers chronograph with column wheel:
Orient Star
Seiko Ananta
Seiko Brightz
Longines (7750 mod)
Tag Heuer (base Sii 6s movement)
Erhard Junghans (base Sii 6s movement)

[Friedrice]

some correction for column wheel part, just to provide more information on this

""All Omega's with caliber 93XX movements are column wheel chronographs, which are again, highly desirable and only found on higher end chronographs from Patek Philippe and Audemars Piguet.""

From my knowledge, currently other mid end brand also offers chronograph with column wheel:
Orient Star
Seiko Ananta
Seiko Brightz
Longines (7750 mod)
Tag Heuer (base Sii 6s movement)
Erhard Junghans (base Sii 6s movement)

TAG is using seiko's old chronograph caliber in their 1887.

The TAG are using either Concepto's Caliber 2000 (C2000) and some are using Concepto's C4000 or it's variants.

But I do agree that Seiko and Orient, both are from the same company, do manufacture everything from ground up. Including the oil. so, Seiko and orient have in-house column wheel that would stand toe to toe with the best Swiss made designs.

But I am not too convince that TAG have actually manufactured their own column wheel chronograph without any outside help. I am quite disenchanted with the brand after the Caliber 1887 scandal.

[hanz079]

Food for thought : Omega recently snubbed COSC certification and instead came out with their more stringent testing. All Master Co-Axial watches are made and tested inside the Omega facility instead of COSC.

Compare this with Patek Philippe. Patek, a few years ago, removed the Geneva Seal from ALL their watches and instead went with a Patek Philippe seal. All modern Patek Philippe's are adorned with the PP seal on the movement while older ones have the Geneva seal.

The reason for the switch for BOTH companies are somewhat similar. Patek Philippe feel that Geneva accreditation is too lax and their watches surpasses the testing done by any accreditation company. Omega also felt that the COSC is not good enough to measure the accuracy of their timepieces so they made an even more stringent testing method to get within +0/+2 seconds per day. And the Master Co-Axial also tests the movement's anti-magnetic capabilities. I would imagine that every movement would have to be tested inside a live MRI machine for it to pass the 15,000 Gauss anti-magnetic test...

I for one does not like the so called "own standards of accreditation"...
What Patek does with the PP seal is like giving them a pat on the back for a job well done by themselves.
How can one be objective when slapping a seal on your own watches without some outside auditing for checks and balances?
As for Omega, it's good that they have a higher accuracy benchmark. But correct me if i am wrong, even a watch with cosc certification is rendered null after the 1st major service.
After that, it's all about endless adjustments to your meet your own threshold.

[Friedrice]

Food for thought : Omega recently snubbed COSC certification and instead came out with their more stringent testing. All Master Co-Axial watches are made and tested inside the Omega facility instead of COSC.

Compare this with Patek Philippe. Patek, a few years ago, removed the Geneva Seal from ALL their watches and instead went with a Patek Philippe seal. All modern Patek Philippe's are adorned with the PP seal on the movement while older ones have the Geneva seal.

The reason for the switch for BOTH companies are somewhat similar. Patek Philippe feel that Geneva accreditation is too lax and their watches surpasses the testing done by any accreditation company. Omega also felt that the COSC is not good enough to measure the accuracy of their timepieces so they made an even more stringent testing method to get within +0/+2 seconds per day. And the Master Co-Axial also tests the movement's anti-magnetic capabilities. I would imagine that every movement would have to be tested inside a live MRI machine for it to pass the 15,000 Gauss anti-magnetic test...

I for one does not like the so called "own standards of accreditation"...
What Patek does with the PP seal is like giving them a pat on the back for a job well done by themselves.
How can one be objective when slapping a seal on your own watches without some outside auditing for checks and balances?
As for Omega, it's good that they have a higher accuracy benchmark. But correct me if i am wrong, even a watch with cosc certification is rendered null after the 1st major service.
After that, it's all about endless adjustments to your meet your own threshold.

Yes. You are correct that the first service will make the COSC cert null and void. Hence COSC cert is just a way for watch companies to milk more money from its customers.

So, in a way, the omega's master co-axial testing is actually good for us customers as they can easily retest the watch in their service center since they are the one doing the testing and certifications.

[Clicko]

...The same cannot be said for my two Balls...

True bro, two old Balls will never get a good value...

If you strip off brands from watches, the value proposition for buyers are design, innovation, technology, style i.e. The things that make that particular watch special to you. In this case Omega has that innovative drive which appears absent in Rolex. Hence the increase in market share and interest from the general public.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's what I've been trying to explain to my friends for ages, strip them bare, remove brand, you still have an Omega.
Strip many brands bare, you have ETA. Even some "high end" brands.

The watches that get you what you pay for (in no particular order):
Blanqpain
Jaquet Droz
Breguet
Harry Winston
Jaeger LeCoutre
Ulysse Nardin
Cartier
Patek Phillipe
Vacheron Constantin
Glashutte Original
Girard-Perreguex
and some independant watches.

This list is just off what i can remember.

On one note, I have seen an Omega Co-axial Calibre 8500 perform on a timing machine before. It is so damn stable at different positions. average rate at 6 positions was like +1 or +2 per day. 

I don't really trust a timing machine, as I use real-life usage to measure accuracy. I believe many in this forum did not really bother on testing mechanical watches. I am testing all my watches myself. FYI Master co-axial 8500 is pretty accurate -/+1s daily most of the time if not wearing (dial-up) and on the wrist. If you put into an upright winder, the average daily rate is +2-5s. In comparison, Rolex's 3130 is much more accurate than Omega's 8500. 3130 averages -/+1s daily in dial-up, wrist, and in upright winder.

[TheHobbit]

Yes. You are correct that the first service will make the COSC cert null and void. Hence COSC cert is just a way for watch companies to milk more money from its customers.

So, in a way, the omega's master co-axial testing is actually good for us customers as they can easily retest the watch in their service center since they are the one doing the testing and certifications.

If and when Omega decides to equip and furnish and train their watchmakers in the field to test their watches to their own standards...

[Timeless]

A James Bond's watch brand,  collectible holy grail

[contender]

Well .... my personal opinion, Omega is like Lexus moving upmarket and part of the Toyota just like Omega part of Swatch Group. Would Lexus overtake Mercedes/BMW ?

[jason_recliner]

Well .... my personal opinion, Omega is like Lexus moving upmarket and part of the Toyota just like Omega part of Swatch Group. Would Lexus overtake Mercedes/BMW ?

Exactly. It took a while but Lexus is the top luxury brand in the USA and generally make better cars than the Euros.

[Friedrice]

Well .... my personal opinion, Omega is like Lexus moving upmarket and part of the Toyota just like Omega part of Swatch Group. Would Lexus overtake Mercedes/BMW ?

Exactly. It took a while but Lexus is the top luxury brand in the USA and generally make better cars than the Euros.

Omega is not a Lexus (Japanese car) competing against European brands.

Omega is like a Jaguar. Made crappy stuff in the 80's and 90's but is now highly respectable.

Omega used to be above Rolex in terms of build quality and price. They used to be on par with Patek Philippe in the 50's.

A lot of famous people wore Omega's. Public figures like John F.Kennedy, Elvis Presley and Chairman Mao wore it in the past.

The current crop of public figures whom wear an Omega (without endorsement deals) are Prince William, Joe Bidden, Dato' Joseph Salang Gandum, and of course, Anwar Ibrahim among many others.

The way I see it, Omega are very near Rolex levels in terms of prestige. And they are probably aiming much higher due to their marketing and in-house movements.

You will know when Omega are going upmarket when they start churning out manual winding gold only dress watches. See Omega DeVille Tresor.

Also, omega currently have Tourbillions, annual calendars, true GMT, column wheel chronographs all powered by their true in-house co-axial movements. They are most definitely going high end. No mid tier watch company can boast a 100% in house movement with a tourbillion or annual calendar.

[swleong]

In the analogy using car, I think Omega is more Volvo than Jaguar.....

Volvo made some really nice cars with fantastic features and innovations, maybe more than Benz, Beemer and Audi.

But the market perception on Volvo is still not on par with the German trio......

In watch industry case, IMO, Omega is very close, but still not there yet...

[jason_recliner]

Well .... my personal opinion, Omega is like Lexus moving upmarket and part of the Toyota just like Omega part of Swatch Group. Would Lexus overtake Mercedes/BMW ?

Exactly. It took a while but Lexus is the top luxury brand in the USA and generally make better cars than the Euros.

Omega is not a Lexus (Japanese car) competing against European brands.

Omega is like a Jaguar. Made crappy stuff in the 80's and 90's but is now highly respectable.

Omega used to be above Rolex in terms of build quality and price. They used to be on par with Patek Philippe in the 50's.

A lot of famous people wore Omega's. Public figures like John F.Kennedy, Elvis Presley and Chairman Mao wore it in the past.

The current crop of public figures whom wear an Omega (without endorsement deals) are Prince William, Joe Bidden, Dato' Joseph Salang Gandum, and of course, Anwar Ibrahim among many others.

The way I see it, Omega are very near Rolex levels in terms of prestige. And they are probably aiming much higher due to their marketing and in-house movements.

You will know when Omega are going upmarket when they start churning out manual winding gold only dress watches. See Omega DeVille Tresor.

Also, omega currently have Tourbillions, annual calendars, true GMT, column wheel chronographs all powered by their true in-house co-axial movements. They are most definitely going high end. No mid tier watch company can boast a 100% in house movement with a tourbillion or annual calendar.

Well said. The only problem is now I REALLY don't want to sell mine!