Watches with very strong value retention

[theseira]

Hi Guys

Anyone can share their experience/knowledge on pieces that have strong resale value?

Ultimately it would be nice to have a list of pieces that is really valuable in the secondary market.

I will start of with one of the most hardest piece to get at list:
1) Patek 5131j (list price 65,500USD) or 5131g (list price 68,000USD)= this if you buy at list price its instant win.

[mike]

Don't take watches as an investment, or something with resell value. Thinking about resell value of  your watch is like thinking about divorce before getting married (what I learnt from sifu's around)

Well, I know a piece that has quite a good resell value, the LLD no date.
I have the LLD date which I got brand new for RM5k after discount (not sure if am allowed to discuss about discount rates, I apologize and moderators please remove if not allowed), and before I purchased the LLD I was hunting around for the no-date version, and all was 5k+. Not to mention, RM5k is price for 2014, LLD no date was discontinued few years back, and I believe in a few years time, the no date version will be even more pricey..

[theseira]

Don't take watches as an investment, or something with resell value. Thinking about resell value of  your watch is like thinking about divorce before getting married (what I learnt from sifu's around)

Good point! That's why I am not married lol! Well you got to admit thought it is a good feeling knowing you own something that is worth more then what you paid for.

Well, I know a piece that has quite a good resell value, the LLD no date.
I have the LLD date which I got brand new for RM5k after discount (not sure if am allowed to discuss about discount rates, I apologize and moderators please remove if not allowed), and before I purchased the LLD I was hunting around for the no-date version, and all was 5k+. Not to mention, RM5k is price for 2014, LLD no date was discontinued few years back, and I believe in a few years time, the no date version will be even more pricey..

Ok LLD cool I got to check that piece out!  Its nice to know about other brands.  I only aware of Rolex and Patek 

Ok ill provide another piece:

Patek 5711 blue dial if bought at 23000 USD or less should hold its value.

[sean]

Some of the panerai model do have good resale value, the 507 retail price should b ard rm40k , grey dealer are selling this model above rm70k.

[Timeless]

For those Panerai's base models, they're actually having good ROI value. Especially on those discontinued Pam.

[Godzillaz]

Both 5131 and 5711 has gone cold in recently.

Remember the indicated selling price is what dealers is selling. It will be lower if is a private sale. I'm sorry but the game of value retention/investment in watches are reserve for the industry insider. We may get lucky in one or two instance but I doubt we can repeat that luck in all our watch.

Just my personal experience and opinion.

Best
T

[theseira]

For those Panerai's base models, they're actually having good ROI value. Especially on those discontinued Pam.

Yeah true. I don't follow panerai but I read something about Pam21 the one with platinum case and the rolex movement in it. That was instant win.

Some of the panerai model do have good resale value, the 507 retail price should b ard rm40k , grey dealer are selling this model above rm70k.

Means if you manage to buy at list it is instant profit also! thanks for the info! 

Both 5131 and 5711 has gone cold in recently.

Remember the indicated selling price is what dealers is selling. It will be lower if is a private sale. I'm sorry but the game of value retention/investment in watches are reserve for the industry insider. We may get lucky in one or two instance but I doubt we can repeat that luck in all our watch.

Just my personal experience and opinion.

Best
T

Yeah indicated selling price is dealer price they need to make some money too. Mines some small % from there your good to go. Normally it is fair to give dealer some % but not too much.

Just wondering why 5313 and 5711 gone cold? What do you mean by this - hard to sell at list price? am I missing something here can please share some knowledge/experience/insider info on these pieces?

If we talking 5313 - I don't think you can lose money on this if you bought at list price. I am trying to source one at list price (VIP friends helping), I can tell you that it is nearly impossible to buy at list. 

5711 blue dial - At the price I paid for mine, I can easily get my cash back.

Cheers!

[Godzillaz]

Gone cold means people are not crazily chasing after it. It used to be an instant flip for profit but now the holding period are longer and the world are not full of idiots or Uber rich who don't mind pay premium.

The case for the 5131 and 5711 is rarity but these are not limited edition pieces. As time goes by we will see more of them in the market. It's a no brainier that these watch are hot cakes when 1000 people are fighting the 50 pieces that's available. As the years pass Patek will produce more. Will it be the same when 2000 people are fighting for 100, or 2000 for 200? Will Patek stop making them at 200? What if it goes up to 500 or close to 1000. Will people still eager to pay premium for it?

For 5711 the factor is really the gain of the USD. Unless I'm willing to wait for awhile or else any gain will be wipe out by the fees dealer charge to move the watch.

People may willing to pay list for a brand new 5711 but will the same hold true for a used 5711 selling at 20% discount?

The path for watch investment/zero loss of money has been tricky.

In the end my personal experience is I would rather spend my time buying the watch I like and accept while I may lose money in the end but I'm happy.

If I wanna make money doing something that may frustrate or compromise my preference I'll look for a job. LOL

Just my 2 cent, nothing more

Best
T

[theseira]

Thanks for the contribution good insights.

5131 and 5711 - yes not limited but the price is solid especially with the 5131. Can you imagine the price of 5131 after it has been replaced by a new reference. 5131 been out since 2009 I think and still very strong.

Also production of this is not gonna be many http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZQ7gdoks5s  patek ceo talks about some killer pateks and the 5131 in this vid. He mentions that he won't rush production he wants the best qualty.

Also the uber rich still around and they willing to pay premium, a lot emerging from china these days they r serious shoppers. 5131 sold at auction this year http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/watches/patek-philippe-a-fine-and-very-rare-5804580-details.aspx?from=searchresults&intObjectID=5804580&sid=c2352e55-3eaa-435b-b899-beaff7aa169d  129k+.

5711 - with regards to production numbers no patek wont stop producing but they will add variation probably, what they did was release a white dial 5711 so for example instead of making 5000 blue dial 5711 nautilus a year they make 2500 white dial and 2500 blue dial. This  is a game changer.

And also from the master Thierry stern himself: http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/2012/1/12/interview-thierry-stern-president-of-patek-philippe.html

In that interview he mentioned that he can sell twice as much nautilus but he not going do it. he does not want patek to be a one watch brand. He is the master of market supply and demand man.

5711 - people are willing to pay list price for new - yes correct they are willing to pay list but not me. second hand 5711 I know two dealers each sold a piece for over 2009 list price. one of the pieces was a 2007 piece.

[@tsw@]

For me, so far its only the apro 15400 (blue dial) that has retained its value nicely. The rest e.g. rolexes, lange and misc has not done so well. But I love them all the same.

[theseira]

For me, so far its only the apro 15400 (blue dial) that has retained its value nicely. The rest e.g. rolexes, lange and misc has not done so well. But I love them all the same.

Your blue dial 15400 is awesome man! !!

T I forgot to mention - 26700 USD is the current retail price for PP5711. If used 5711(blue dial) sold at 20% discount of current list price you can sell it faster then cooking a 2 min cup noodle.

[Godzillaz]

I guess I can only wish you all the best on your pursue.

Best
T

[harkensng]

Don't take watches as an investment, or something with resell value. Thinking about resell value of  your watch is like thinking about divorce before getting married (what I learnt from sifu's around)

Good point! That's why I am not married lol! Well you got to admit thought it is a good feeling knowing you own something that is worth more then what you paid for.

Well, I know a piece that has quite a good resell value, the LLD no date.
I have the LLD date which I got brand new for RM5k after discount (not sure if am allowed to discuss about discount rates, I apologize and moderators please remove if not allowed), and before I purchased the LLD I was hunting around for the no-date version, and all was 5k+. Not to mention, RM5k is price for 2014, LLD no date was discontinued few years back, and I believe in a few years time, the no date version will be even more pricey..

Ok LLD cool I got to check that piece out!  Its nice to know about other brands.  I only aware of Rolex and Patek 

Ok ill provide another piece:

Patek 5711 blue dial if bought at 23000 USD or less should hold its value.

I agree with u on the blue 5711bro. But I think its not easy to get at usd23k....

[theseira]

I guess I can only wish you all the best on your pursue.

Best
T

  thanks bro! I am shuffling my collection at the moment thinking/researching/planning hard about what to add/sell  to end up with 4-6 really good pieces all up in total. hard stuff!

Don't take watches as an investment, or something with resell value. Thinking about resell value of  your watch is like thinking about divorce before getting married (what I learnt from sifu's around)

Good point! That's why I am not married lol! Well you got to admit thought it is a good feeling knowing you own something that is worth more then what you paid for.

Well, I know a piece that has quite a good resell value, the LLD no date.
I have the LLD date which I got brand new for RM5k after discount (not sure if am allowed to discuss about discount rates, I apologize and moderators please remove if not allowed), and before I purchased the LLD I was hunting around for the no-date version, and all was 5k+. Not to mention, RM5k is price for 2014, LLD no date was discontinued few years back, and I believe in a few years time, the no date version will be even more pricey..

Ok LLD cool I got to check that piece out!  Its nice to know about other brands.  I only aware of Rolex and Patek 

Ok ill provide another piece:

Patek 5711 blue dial if bought at 23000 USD or less should hold its value.

I agree with u on the blue 5711bro. But I think its not easy to get at usd23k....

  Yeah not so easy to get took me a really long time.