Panerai, IWC, Breitling, Rolex, Omega Standing

[IWCking]

well, rollie is pretty much just like a merc benz. I do not think that its anyway close to a AP, PP or VC. Rollie just like Merc Benz is probably the best known brand among general publics, but collectors will prefer to go for more exclusive brands. AP roughly makes 30,000 watches each year by hand. Rollie easily makes a million a year by machine. If money is not an issue, guess collectors will want to have porsche, bentley or maserati, ferrari etc and not just a 'merc benz'. Dont get me wrong. I am not saying that rollie is no good. Indeed, rollie is probably the most successful commercial watch brand. That's it.

[Godzillaz]

Seeing more of it doesn't mean anything.

There's way more Myvi on the road than M5. Now I can't say a Myvi's status is stronger than a M5, can I?

But you're right on 1 thing. Rolex does a wonderful job on marketing so much so that people perceived them as the same rank as AP, JLC etc.

Regards
Tyler

Hi
I mean brand prestige and perceived value, in general.
I refer to the topic 'brands of higher standing' and IMO Rolex should be classified w AP, JLC etc.

As I travel to Spore HK, I realise how strong the status of Rolex AP Lange (lets not talk bout PP). Well it is strictly my opinion.

[ivanpei]

IMO, from your average watch noob youngster from the street:

1. Rollie- Still number one lar, everyone thinks of this first. Datejust/Sub instantly recognisable. Mainly bought by businessman/professionals to show that they have "made it".
2. Omega- Still considered number two by most people. Watch snobs/sifus will probably think Omegas are boring compared to the others, but it's an established brand that everyone knows lar. Also compared to Rollie, the quality is almost the same or sometimes even better than Rollie. But you are paying half, and you are also getting half the brand name recognition also lar.

3. Brietling/IWC/Panerai- Tied now as the "outside" luxury brands prefered by watch sifus and collectors. Of course if you are a watch enthusiast, you will rank these higher than Omega and maybe even Rollie lar.

At the higher end spectrum, I think AP and PP are king lar. VC, Lange etc not as known by general public. Even when I was young, I've heard of rich uncles with the "better than Rolex" Patek.

[Godzillaz]

IMO, from your average watch noob youngster from the street:

1. Rollie- Still number one lar, everyone thinks of this first. Datejust/Sub instantly recognisable. Mainly bought by businessman/professionals to show that they have "made it".

True.

2. Omega- Still considered number two by most people. Watch snobs/sifus will probably think Omegas are boring compared to the others, but it's an established brand that everyone knows lar. Also compared to Rollie, the quality is almost the same or sometimes even better than Rollie. But you are paying half, and you are also getting half the brand name recognition also lar.

Not anymore. Have you seen prices of these new omega lately? Also more people know Omega in China and Rado is the King in Vietnam. HK, UK, India and US are the place where Rolex is famous. Go to Japan and you will feel different. 

3. Brietling/IWC/Panerai- Tied now as the "outside" luxury brands prefered by watch sifus and collectors. Of course if you are a watch enthusiast, you will rank these higher than Omega and maybe even Rollie lar.

I don't know where you got the idea of Breitling is tied with Panerai or even rank above Omega. You seriously would choose a Breitling Chronomat over Omega Planet Ocean Chrono?

At the higher end spectrum, I think AP and PP are king lar. VC, Lange etc not as known by general public. Even when I was young, I've heard of rich uncles with the "better than Rolex" Patek.

You mean King in terms of sales?

Regards
Tyler

[ivanpei]

@ Godzillaz, yup, Omegas are getting really expensive. Luckily I jumped on the boat and bought a modified Valjoux 7750 SMP Chrono Diver while they are still cheap (like only 400 more than the 2500 Coaxial normal SMP). In China/Japan I agree Omega > China. I even saw Omega ads in Japanese Mangas. Talk about product placement!

I guess in Malaysia, Rolex is still more known lar, because all the successful uncle/aunties are wearing a half gold sub/dj. Because of that, under-thirty working execs might not want to buy it as well. When choosing my wedding gift, really cannot get a Rollie, because I have to wait till I am 30++ to wear it, unless it is a Stainless steel Sub/Deep Sea, then that one is not so flashy. In this case, I agree Omega SMP/Speedies are the best value for money and most suitable for Under 30s young execs.

For Brietling/IWC imo really low key in Malaysia lar. I'm not sure about other countries. Haven't really heard much about them. Panerai's quite big now, I think because alot of big stars are wearing them like Stallone, Jason Statham etc. I'm not into leather watches so I still prefer Omega Divers.

But even then I gatal Rolex because it's still a ROLEX. I'm looking for an old (> 10 yrs) Black Sub just to cure my gatalness. I think I will alternate with my Chronodiver as my daily watch. I like the looks and feel of the Omega SMP Chrono more (my dad has a Sub), but I still want a Rollie.

As for the high end, yup AP/PP probably king in sales and mass popularity. I can spot a Nautilus/Calatrava/RO/ROO, but I don't think I can recognise any of the other models. But if talking about super rare high end piece, then Lange and VC have some beautiful ones lar, but the brands are not as known outside the WIS circles. This is coming from my own opinion as a watch noob. I cannot afford but I like dreaming.   

But the Omega Skeleton Tourbillion is also super ultra highend.    My dream watch! First thing I will buy if I win Lotto. Hahaha!

[G.MAC]

As for the high end, yup AP/PP probably king in sales and mass popularity.

I can agree with all except this. AP/PP still not king of sales and mass popularity. People would be more keen to go for full gold rolex anytime then spend the same amount on a steel PP. They would be the preferred brand among the WIS only.

[sm]

This thread is really provoking! I am happy to learn from all the experts- how learned and informed ppl look at different brands. There is so much to learn from mwf.

[Godzillaz]

The WIS brand are brands most people wouldn't buy.

Few example

Lange: a simple 3 hand watch set you back about 5x,000. No one will recognize it, some may laugh at you when you tell them the price.

H.Moser: a perpetual for less than 160k. Super movement fine finish but will you get one instead of a Patek?

Credor: The top end model are what Japanese finest workmanship can offer (better than most swiss even PP), however at over 70k, will you choose tis over a Royal Oak?

What I mean to say is there is watch brand and there's watch brand.

Status watch?
Marketing Hype?
True craftsmanship?

It takes time to know them all but that what makes it fun.

Regards
Tyler

As for the high end, yup AP/PP probably king in sales and mass popularity.

I can agree with all except this. AP/PP still not king of sales and mass popularity. People would be more keen to go for full gold rolex anytime then spend the same amount on a steel PP. They would be the preferred brand among the WIS only.

[ivanpei]

Haha, when I see a Daytona SS, I think he is a WIS already because for that money most people go for a Half Gold Rolex with diamonds etc d. So AP, Patek, VC etc for me are very very WIS. The watch brands you mentioned are even higher up the food chain, hahahaha.

[JOS2012]

I totally agree that you need to have a basis of the ranking..and then that ranking serves only that categorisation..
Ranked on perceived value? on technical quality of movement? on re-sale? on popularity? on endorsements ? on volume sales? or pricing ? on recognition by the general public?

I'm no sifu but working in a MNC & being in charge of the group's marketing & branding, I may be able to understand a little on such issues.
You need to look at the basis and also the authority that ranks these so-called 'top 10 luxury or valuable brands'. Even Nielsen or Synovate ratings are not all encompassing as it depends on the coverage and quality of their sampling rates for that particular survey.
Most times these rankings are based on declared sales (either in value or in volume) amongst several other things but that itself is skewed as pricing plays a part. Of coz you can only sell at a price that the market supports so then you look at your target market and how to develop your marketing spin.

LV may be amongst the top 10 luxury brands in bags but I'd bet a that Bottega Veneta or heck...any unbranded leather item made by an artisan firm with 200 years in the business somewhere in Florence or Tuscany would anytime be higher in quality, durability, exclusivity and whatever else than a LV, regardless of cost, except for perhaps only market perception of the brand or lack of brand....

Ranked by whom and for whom?... the man on the street who has no interest hence little knowledge of that product and goes by hearsay/friend's recommendations or the specific interest group that spends more effort in an informed decision 

I think it is not correct to group these 5 brands together. Rolex is too far apart from the rest in terms of brand value, prestige and reliability. It is the top ten most valuable luxurious goods and the only watch brand in the top ten listing. To side track, the most valuable brand on luxury goods is LV. Amongst others are Ferrari, CD, Chanel Merc etc.

[terrenceterrence]

anything is only worth as much as the man on the street is willing to pay.

so ranking is very subjective.... everything is but a spin. Just like when i was looking through a brochure of American colleges.
One touted themselves as one of the top 5 "all business college in the country". A quick check on the net surfaced that there were only 5 all business colleges in the country 

[JOS2012]

I'd like to hire that marketing guy.....

One touted themselves as one of the top 5 "all business college in the country". A quick check on the net surfaced that there were only 5 all business colleges in the country 

[GMTmaster]

My ranking among these 5 brands are:

IWC
ROLEX
PAM
BREITLING
OMEGA

Bear in mind, I am a novice in watch collection. I did the above based on my understanding of the watch market in Malaysia and the images that they portray through their advertisements.

I used to like BREITLING brand, maybe it is due the fact that I like flying, and have had the intention of learning to fly one day.....

[Mark]

My thought:

Rolex
Omega
Pam
IWC
Breitling

Hehe 

[scalpel72]

My 2c worth:

Rolex- will always be number 1 amongst non WIS, great resale value
IWC- in-house and fantastic complications
Panerai- growing in popularity, currently the "in" brand
Omega - well known and enduring. Proven quality
Breitling- Except for the Navitimer, very bland for me

[MRH]

My take on this:-

Everyone who's into watches except for me wants a Rolex on their hands. I prefer an Omega. It is after all, 007's choice.

Everyone who's starting to like watches wants a Panerai but I'll take an IWC anytime. 

Breitling, functional and almost always, the automatics come with chronometer certs....

Forget about ranking when the criteria and parameters are not set. Besides, buy what looks good by your own eyes and feels good on your hand. Forget marketing hype.

Consider this, Hublot not so long ago was a new brand in the market but with its marketing blitz and celebs wearing their bling-bling creations, it is now considered by some a premium brand. In fact, only recently it started to create it's own movements.

[terrenceterrence]

hahah Omega is the producer's choice. Fleming's choice for Bond is still only Rolex.

even in the new official Bond novel, Rolex is still the choice. But of course in the movies, Omega's money talks. 

[ck77]

Omega 007's choice?

[Godzillaz]

after Rolex and way before Omega, there is Seiko. Beware of the land of the rising sun ...

(source from revolution magazine)

Bond is not a 1 lady type of man. Certainly not a 1 watch brand kinda spy 

Funny he choose seiko before omega ...

Regards
Tyler

[kenstylo]

Hi all, a newbie here....  I'm no watch collector & definitely not qualified as critique.

I actually do own 5 of the brands mentioned in the thread.

My latest 3 watches are Pam.  >.<

Jz to speak out for pam wearers (not owners)

U see, despite movement, historical value, status & all, Pam is not jz for kaisu segment.  It is actually the 1st watch that truly induce impulsive possession.  The 1st impulse in seeing it is: "beauty in simplicity(most man like that), I wanna wear it".....

My other brands have not seen daylight till now then......

Purely speaking from the points of watch wearer...... Pam is the watch you wanna put on your wrist & reluctant to take down..... 

Don't shoot...........

[ck77]

Hi all, a newbie here....  I'm no watch collector & definitely not qualified as critique.

I actually do own 5 of the brands mentioned in the thread.

My latest 3 watches are Pam.  >.<

Jz to speak out for pam wearers (not owners)

U see, despite movement, historical value, status & all, Pam is not jz for kaisu segment.  It is actually the 1st watch that truly induce impulsive possession.  The 1st impulse in seeing it is: "beauty in simplicity(most man like that), I wanna wear it".....

My other brands have not seen daylight till now then......

Purely speaking from the points of watch wearer...... Pam is the watch you wanna put on your wrist & reluctant to take down..... 

Don't shoot...........

No one is gonna shoot you.
Post some pictures of your pam.

[gloomis]

Hi all, a newbie here....  I'm no watch collector & definitely not qualified as critique.

I actually do own 5 of the brands mentioned in the thread.

My latest 3 watches are Pam.  >.<

Jz to speak out for pam wearers (not owners)

U see, despite movement, historical value, status & all, Pam is not jz for kaisu segment.  It is actually the 1st watch that truly induce impulsive possession.  The 1st impulse in seeing it is: "beauty in simplicity(most man like that), I wanna wear it".....

My other brands have not seen daylight till now then......

Purely speaking from the points of watch wearer...... Pam is the watch you wanna put on your wrist & reluctant to take down..... 

Don't shoot...........

a great comment.....i support u 

[dpkong]

Hi all, a newbie here....  I'm no watch collector & definitely not qualified as critique.

I actually do own 5 of the brands mentioned in the thread.

My latest 3 watches are Pam.  >.<

Jz to speak out for pam wearers (not owners)

U see, despite movement, historical value, status & all, Pam is not jz for kaisu segment.  It is actually the 1st watch that truly induce impulsive possession.  The 1st impulse in seeing it is: "beauty in simplicity(most man like that), I wanna wear it".....

My other brands have not seen daylight till now then......

Purely speaking from the points of watch wearer...... Pam is the watch you wanna put on your wrist & reluctant to take down..... 

Don't shoot...........

not to incite the Panerai owners but I find nothing interesting about them at all. so while you may like them tremendously, others may not.

[kenstylo]

Totally agree.  One man's honey is another man's poison.....

I was poisoned by Pam.....

[gloomis]

true....coz pam is juz a very simple watch which alot think is overpriced.