Author Topic: automatic vs hand wind  (Read 15312 times)

Offline TheWatchMan

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2014, 01:41:26 PM »
Movement are secondary to me when it comes to modern panerai. It's the appearance of the dial and case that's more important. However that being said, I do find majority of the panerai that I like happens to be hand wind.

I do have automatics but more than 75% of my panerai are hand wind.

The dial and case must come before the movement. That is the usual case for ppl buying panerai.

Best
T

Agreed. The importance of movements are sometimes overly hyped. oftentimes new "in-house" movement is actually less robust than proven "3 party" movement.

Don't think there are so much differences between ETA and in-house movements of hand wound or automatics. All mechanical watch has the basic 5 parts:
- main spring
- gear train
- escapement
- balance wheel
- dial including hands

So why there is so much hype of an in-house movement?

Offline swleong

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2014, 04:06:15 PM »
Movement are secondary to me when it comes to modern panerai. It's the appearance of the dial and case that's more important. However that being said, I do find majority of the panerai that I like happens to be hand wind.

I do have automatics but more than 75% of my panerai are hand wind.

The dial and case must come before the movement. That is the usual case for ppl buying panerai.

Best
T

Agreed. The importance of movements are sometimes overly hyped. oftentimes new "in-house" movement is actually less robust than proven "3 party" movement.

Don't think there are so much differences between ETA and in-house movements of hand wound or automatics. All mechanical watch has the basic 5 parts:
- main spring
- gear train
- escapement
- balance wheel
- dial including hands

So why there is so much hype of an in-house movement?

Off topic a bit and please allow me to do a not so good analogy of in-house and 3rd party movement.

Malaysia is finally going to the moon!!!

Rocket: Designed and parts made in Russia, assembled in Malaysia.
Shuttle: Designed and parts made in USA, assembled in Malaysia.
Astronauts: 2 Malaysian, 1 American and 1 Russian.

Technically speaking, there might be no differences if the rockets, shuttle and astronauts are purely from USA/Russia/Malaysia or the combination of all nations, eventually they will reach to the moon. Doing it all on one country's effort can be more expensive and take longer time as well.

But still, feeling like something's not complete, isn't it?

It is the exclusiveness, pride of challenge conquered and the feeling of "I do it all by myself and nailed it" that make "in-house" special and sought after, IMO.

"...We choose to go to the moon, not because they are easy, but because they are hard..." John F. Kennedy

   





Offline sidestreaker

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2014, 04:41:32 PM »
I was about to explain the same thing with self made pasta vs instant pasta, but I think I like the rocket+going to the moon analogy better.  :thumbsup:

Offline el118

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2014, 06:14:34 PM »
I would pray hard for the astraunaut if the rocket is made fully ' in house' by malaysia.

Offline sean

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2014, 06:37:18 PM »
I would pray hard for the astraunaut if the rocket is made fully ' in house' by malaysia.

I second that ;D

Offline Godzillaz

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2014, 07:37:49 AM »
I'm sorry but that analogy doesn't descript the situation at all.

Not only it doesn't make sense it is flawed and misleading. It move away from discussing watch movement to being cynical about Malaysian space mission.

Please keep this in mind. In house movement is in no way guarantee superior than a thirty party movement like eta.

This is the same for all brand at all level. Even all the way up to Patek.

Watch brand has long blow the hone of in house movement not because it's superiority but the ability to control supply and excuse to charge the customer more.

I don't see how the rocket and moon analogy fit into that.

Regard
Tyler


Movement are secondary to me when it comes to modern panerai. It's the appearance of the dial and case that's more important. However that being said, I do find majority of the panerai that I like happens to be hand wind.

I do have automatics but more than 75% of my panerai are hand wind.

The dial and case must come before the movement. That is the usual case for ppl buying panerai.

Best
T

Agreed. The importance of movements are sometimes overly hyped. oftentimes new "in-house" movement is actually less robust than proven "3 party" movement.

Don't think there are so much differences between ETA and in-house movements of hand wound or automatics. All mechanical watch has the basic 5 parts:
- main spring
- gear train
- escapement
- balance wheel
- dial including hands

So why there is so much hype of an in-house movement?

Off topic a bit and please allow me to do a not so good analogy of in-house and 3rd party movement.

Malaysia is finally going to the moon!!!

Rocket: Designed and parts made in Russia, assembled in Malaysia.
Shuttle: Designed and parts made in USA, assembled in Malaysia.
Astronauts: 2 Malaysian, 1 American and 1 Russian.

Technically speaking, there might be no differences if the rockets, shuttle and astronauts are purely from USA/Russia/Malaysia or the combination of all nations, eventually they will reach to the moon. Doing it all on one country's effort can be more expensive and take longer time as well.

But still, feeling like something's not complete, isn't it?

It is the exclusiveness, pride of challenge conquered and the feeling of "I do it all by myself and nailed it" that make "in-house" special and sought after, IMO.

"...We choose to go to the moon, not because they are easy, but because they are hard..." John F. Kennedy

   

Offline contender

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2014, 08:21:00 AM »
I'm sorry but that analogy doesn't descript the situation at all.

Not only it doesn't make sense it is flawed and misleading. It move away from discussing watch movement to being cynical about Malaysian space mission.

Please keep this in mind. In house movement is in no way guarantee superior than a thirty party movement like eta.

This is the same for all brand at all level. Even all the way up to Patek.

Watch brand has long blow the hone of in house movement not because it's superiority but the ability to control supply and excuse to charge the customer more.

I don't see how the rocket and moon analogy fit into that.

Regard
Tyler



Agreed on your point :thumbsup:

In house movement is over rated if they are not proven over time, better stick with ETAs or the really established in house movement like the Rolex caliber 3135 which is being "mass produced" compared to other in house movements which may not stand the test of time like a Rolex.

Anyway, it all comes down to personal choice .... your money at the end when comes to servicing and the availability of parts etc .


Offline swleong

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2014, 10:56:34 AM »
I'm sorry but that analogy doesn't descript the situation at all.

Not only it doesn't make sense it is flawed and misleading. It move away from discussing watch movement to being cynical about Malaysian space mission.

Please keep this in mind. In house movement is in no way guarantee superior than a thirty party movement like eta.

This is the same for all brand at all level. Even all the way up to Patek.

Watch brand has long blow the hone of in house movement not because it's superiority but the ability to control supply and excuse to charge the customer more.

I don't see how the rocket and moon analogy fit into that.

Regard
Tyler


Movement are secondary to me when it comes to modern panerai. It's the appearance of the dial and case that's more important. However that being said, I do find majority of the panerai that I like happens to be hand wind.

I do have automatics but more than 75% of my panerai are hand wind.

The dial and case must come before the movement. That is the usual case for ppl buying panerai.

Best
T

Agreed. The importance of movements are sometimes overly hyped. oftentimes new "in-house" movement is actually less robust than proven "3 party" movement.

Don't think there are so much differences between ETA and in-house movements of hand wound or automatics. All mechanical watch has the basic 5 parts:
- main spring
- gear train
- escapement
- balance wheel
- dial including hands

So why there is so much hype of an in-house movement?

Off topic a bit and please allow me to do a not so good analogy of in-house and 3rd party movement.

Malaysia is finally going to the moon!!!

Rocket: Designed and parts made in Russia, assembled in Malaysia.
Shuttle: Designed and parts made in USA, assembled in Malaysia.
Astronauts: 2 Malaysian, 1 American and 1 Russian.

Technically speaking, there might be no differences if the rockets, shuttle and astronauts are purely from USA/Russia/Malaysia or the combination of all nations, eventually they will reach to the moon. Doing it all on one country's effort can be more expensive and take longer time as well.

But still, feeling like something's not complete, isn't it?

It is the exclusiveness, pride of challenge conquered and the feeling of "I do it all by myself and nailed it" that make "in-house" special and sought after, IMO.

"...We choose to go to the moon, not because they are easy, but because they are hard..." John F. Kennedy

   

Everybody have their opinions and I am sure you are viewing the in-house vs 3rd party movement thing from different perspective.

If you notice, I've not mentioned anything regarding the superiority of in-house movement in terms of quality comparing with 3rd party movement like ETA. Of course I also aware that many newly developed (even some existing) in-house movements required much more cares and maintenance.

The point I try to make is, in case you have missed it, is all about the feeling of "exclusiveness, pride of challenge conquered and the feeling of "I do it all by myself and nailed it"

Making own in-house movements required tremendous R&D costs and time. If not doing it right, most of the time doesn't make good economy sense to the company. Another analogy, Proton. Proton could have just keep using some outdated Mitsubishi/Honda engines (which proven to be good and reliable over the years) and keep milking money out of it instead of making its own crappy CamPro engine.

But if Proton don't try, they will never able to progress to another level as a carmaker (of course they are still suck  :Laughing_on_floor: ).

Back to watch. For example, if Panerai don't start to make their own in-movements, how would it distinguished itself from, say Longines, Laco, Oris, etc except for selling very much overpriced for basically the same ETA movements? And I'm not saying P.9000 is more superior than OP III. There's differences between watch manufacturer and watch Manufacturer.

For me, owning a watch which made its in-house movements associates myself with the spirits of innovations, courage and dare-to-be-different. That's just me, ok.


Cheers.



   

Offline kenji1903

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2014, 11:59:02 AM »
Everybody have their opinions and I am sure you are viewing the in-house vs 3rd party movement thing from different perspective.

If you notice, I've not mentioned anything regarding the superiority of in-house movement in terms of quality comparing with 3rd party movement like ETA. Of course I also aware that many newly developed (even some existing) in-house movements required much more cares and maintenance.

The point I try to make is, in case you have missed it, is all about the feeling of "exclusiveness, pride of challenge conquered and the feeling of "I do it all by myself and nailed it"

Making own in-house movements required tremendous R&D costs and time. If not doing it right, most of the time doesn't make good economy sense to the company. Another analogy, Proton. Proton could have just keep using some outdated Mitsubishi/Honda engines (which proven to be good and reliable over the years) and keep milking money out of it instead of making its own crappy CamPro engine.

But if Proton don't try, they will never able to progress to another level as a carmaker (of course they are still suck  :Laughing_on_floor: ).

Back to watch. For example, if Panerai don't start to make their own in-movements, how would it distinguished itself from, say Longines, Laco, Oris, etc except for selling very much overpriced for basically the same ETA movements? And I'm not saying P.9000 is more superior than OP III. There's differences between watch manufacturer and watch Manufacturer.

For me, owning a watch which made its in-house movements associates myself with the spirits of innovations, courage and dare-to-be-different. That's just me, ok.


Cheers.

i am waiting for it... i knew the Proton word is going to popup ;D

Offline Godzillaz

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2014, 01:03:07 PM »
Well if we are talking about feeling, in the context of exclusivity then I understand your point. Is like choosing Alfa Romeo over Toyota. More about feel than use.




Everybody have their opinions and I am sure you are viewing the in-house vs 3rd party movement thing from different perspective.

If you notice, I've not mentioned anything regarding the superiority of in-house movement in terms of quality comparing with 3rd party movement like ETA. Of course I also aware that many newly developed (even some existing) in-house movements required much more cares and maintenance.

The point I try to make is, in case you have missed it, is all about the feeling of "exclusiveness, pride of challenge conquered and the feeling of "I do it all by myself and nailed it"

Making own in-house movements required tremendous R&D costs and time. If not doing it right, most of the time doesn't make good economy sense to the company. Another analogy, Proton. Proton could have just keep using some outdated Mitsubishi/Honda engines (which proven to be good and reliable over the years) and keep milking money out of it instead of making its own crappy CamPro engine.

But if Proton don't try, they will never able to progress to another level as a carmaker (of course they are still suck  :Laughing_on_floor: ).

Back to watch. For example, if Panerai don't start to make their own in-movements, how would it distinguished itself from, say Longines, Laco, Oris, etc except for selling very much overpriced for basically the same ETA movements? And I'm not saying P.9000 is more superior than OP III. There's differences between watch manufacturer and watch Manufacturer.

For me, owning a watch which made its in-house movements associates myself with the spirits of innovations, courage and dare-to-be-different. That's just me, ok.


Cheers.

   

Offline jason_recliner

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2014, 08:23:05 AM »
Movement are secondary to me when it comes to modern panerai. It's the appearance of the dial and case that's more important. However that being said, I do find majority of the panerai that I like happens to be hand wind.

I do have automatics but more than 75% of my panerai are hand wind.

The dial and case must come before the movement. That is the usual case for ppl buying panerai.

Best
T

Agreed. The importance of movements are sometimes overly hyped. oftentimes new "in-house" movement is actually less robust than proven "3 party" movement.

Don't think there are so much differences between ETA and in-house movements of hand wound or automatics. All mechanical watch has the basic 5 parts:
- main spring
- gear train
- escapement
- balance wheel
- dial including hands

So why there is so much hype of an in-house movement?

Off topic a bit and please allow me to do a not so good analogy of in-house and 3rd party movement.

Malaysia is finally going to the moon!!!

Rocket: Designed and parts made in Russia, assembled in Malaysia.
Shuttle: Designed and parts made in USA, assembled in Malaysia.
Astronauts: 2 Malaysian, 1 American and 1 Russian.

Technically speaking, there might be no differences if the rockets, shuttle and astronauts are purely from USA/Russia/Malaysia or the combination of all nations, eventually they will reach to the moon. Doing it all on one country's effort can be more expensive and take longer time as well.

But still, feeling like something's not complete, isn't it?

It is the exclusiveness, pride of challenge conquered and the feeling of "I do it all by myself and nailed it" that make "in-house" special and sought after, IMO.

"...We choose to go to the moon, not because they are easy, but because they are hard..." John F. Kennedy

   

I reckon this is an excellent analogy. 


But if Proton don't try, they will never able to progress to another level as a carmaker (of course they are still suck  :Laughing_on_floor: ).


Protons aren't the greatest cars but they aren't that bad, either - they do the job.  You guys are so lucky to have a domestic car manufacturer, one actually owned by your country no less.  As our car manufacturers in Australia are now winding down, I am realising how much we, as a nation, are losing.  You'd be wise to support your local manufacturer, IMO.

Offline siokae0422

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2014, 10:10:49 PM »
i collected few watches, all is automatic watch
never plan to get self-winding watch before
just my own opinion cause too lazy, haha

Offline chrisyen

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2014, 04:35:15 PM »
if you wanna feel your watch everyday... buy a winding one

if you wanna feel your watch once in few days... buy a long power reserve winding one

if you lazy to wind... buy auto

unless you compare
cal xx vs cal xx
or else cant compare