Author Topic: automatic vs hand wind  (Read 15325 times)

Offline ckoh

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automatic vs hand wind
« on: July 01, 2014, 06:31:26 AM »
hi! members, for panerai in house movement , automatic or hand wind will be better? If i spend over 20k to buy a panerai, which movement u will advise?

Offline grifterfmj

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2014, 06:47:53 AM »
depends, if it is your one and only watch go automatic.

if you have many, hand wind. IMO the quintessential PAM models that carry the PAM dna by the bucketloads are hand wound

Offline Godzillaz

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2014, 09:58:06 AM »
Movement are secondary to me when it comes to modern panerai. It's the appearance of the dial and case that's more important. However that being said, I do find majority of the panerai that I like happens to be hand wind.

I do have automatics but more than 75% of my panerai are hand wind.

The dial and case must come before the movement. That is the usual case for ppl buying panerai.

Best
T

Offline tagger

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2014, 03:33:23 PM »
newbie here... what do you guys mean by "hand wind"?

Offline ck77

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2014, 03:49:57 PM »
newbie here... what do you guys mean by "hand wind"?
use your hand to wind

Offline kygan711

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2014, 04:00:41 PM »
I got a radiomir recently and hand wind. I was happy that I did not get the 8 days Luminor as I enjoyed winding the watch every 3 days. In fact i hoped it was shorter.

Offline TheHobbit

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2014, 04:18:32 PM »
I got a radiomir recently and hand wind. I was happy that I did not get the 8 days Luminor as I enjoyed winding the watch every 3 days. In fact i hoped it was shorter.

You can wind it daily actually, without having to wait for the power reserve to run down. Some say, it is better for the movement.

Offline kenji1903

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2014, 05:02:08 PM »
newbie here... what do you guys mean by "hand wind"?
use your hand to wind
you two... i almost spit my coffee on the screen :Laughing_on_floor:

Offline swleong

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2014, 05:04:00 PM »
Noob question pertaining manual winding as I don't own one yet:-

Will there be more wear and tear for manual winding compare to automatic winding (with occasionally manual wind)?


Offline sidestreaker

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2014, 06:02:14 PM »
newbie here... what do you guys mean by "hand wind"?
use your hand to wind
you two... i almost spit my coffee on the screen :Laughing_on_floor:

You cannot be more specific...  :Laughing_on_floor:

Offline sidestreaker

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2014, 06:10:53 PM »
Noob question pertaining manual winding as I don't own one yet:-

Will there be more wear and tear for manual winding compare to automatic winding (with occasionally manual wind)?

Answers is no. Automatic watch typically has more wear and tear compared to manual watches.
Automatic watches will continue to wind when worn and needs a mainspring clutch to avoid overwinding when power reserve is full
A wound up manual watch will just run its course until the end of its power reserve. You just have to make sure not to overwind it manually to avoid damage.

With less parts and less complicated, they are easier to service too (and should be relatively cheaper).

Offline Calibr

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2014, 06:23:09 PM »
An automatic can be hand-wound, but a hand-wind cannot be automatically re-wind.. ;D

Offline TheHobbit

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2014, 06:28:21 PM »
An automatic can be hand-wound, but a hand-wind cannot be automatically re-wind.. ;D

There are automatic movements that cannot be hand-wound, the Seiko 7S26 comes to mind. As for automatically winding  hand-wound movement, check out the Orbita Sempre.

Offline TheWatchMan

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2014, 07:14:28 PM »
Noob question pertaining manual winding as I don't own one yet:-

Will there be more wear and tear for manual winding compare to automatic winding (with occasionally manual wind)?

Answers is no. Automatic watch typically has more wear and tear compared to manual watches.
Automatic watches will continue to wind when worn and needs a mainspring clutch to avoid overwinding when power reserve is full
A wound up manual watch will just run its course until the end of its power reserve. You just have to make sure not to overwind it manually to avoid damage.

With less parts and less complicated, they are easier to service too (and should be relatively cheaper).

How to ensure we don't overwind a manual watch? Will the crown tighten or something else?

Offline sidestreaker

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2014, 07:17:25 PM »
Noob question pertaining manual winding as I don't own one yet:-

Will there be more wear and tear for manual winding compare to automatic winding (with occasionally manual wind)?

Answers is no. Automatic watch typically has more wear and tear compared to manual watches.
Automatic watches will continue to wind when worn and needs a mainspring clutch to avoid overwinding when power reserve is full
A wound up manual watch will just run its course until the end of its power reserve. You just have to make sure not to overwind it manually to avoid damage.

With less parts and less complicated, they are easier to service too (and should be relatively cheaper).

How to ensure we don't overwind a manual watch? Will the crown tighten or something else?

Yes, the crown will tighten up and you can naturally feel it. Pretty much like a wound-up toy.

Otherwise, a power reserve indicator is a handy feature to have, so you'll know when to stop
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 07:19:13 PM by sidestreaker »

Offline Timeless

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2014, 08:51:30 PM »
To my point of feeling.. Hand wind is something that u giving the watch energy/life..

Offline ckoh

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2014, 11:22:43 PM »
This is why I am in dilemma to choose my second panerai, but Finally I get a automatic with the design I like. thank you for all advises from members!  :Cheers:

Offline kenji1903

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2014, 05:52:56 AM »
This is why I am in dilemma to choose my second panerai, but Finally I get a automatic with the design I like. thank you for all advises from members!  :Cheers:
wrist shots! ;D

Offline Zen8

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2014, 08:30:30 AM »
Most of my pams are hand wind.  I feel connected to the watch by winding it and at the same time, appreciate it more.   Because of that, the feeling toward the watch will grow and most people ended up having more than 1 pam.  That's how we get hooked to pam, I guess. :Confused: 

Offline chrisyen

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2014, 09:56:01 AM »
pam auto watches mostly solid back last time, because nothing to shout. they show it after the in house movement introduced, but new in house movement from pam also not good looking in my opinion
i love the eta modified/upgraded hand wind movement.... simply beautiful

Offline sinbad2k

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2014, 10:06:59 AM »
another noob question..
Isn't it possible that for manual winding watches, the force applied on winding the crown could be higher and irregular which puts more strain on the gears compared to automatic winding of the rotor where the force is more constant and controlled?What this means eventually is that automatic winding wears down the gears slower overall compared to manual winding.

Noob question pertaining manual winding as I don't own one yet:-

Will there be more wear and tear for manual winding compare to automatic winding (with occasionally manual wind)?

Answers is no. Automatic watch typically has more wear and tear compared to manual watches.
Automatic watches will continue to wind when worn and needs a mainspring clutch to avoid overwinding when power reserve is full
A wound up manual watch will just run its course until the end of its power reserve. You just have to make sure not to overwind it manually to avoid damage.

With less parts and less complicated, they are easier to service too (and should be relatively cheaper).

Offline sidestreaker

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2014, 11:21:10 AM »
another noob question..
Isn't it possible that for manual winding watches, the force applied on winding the crown could be higher and irregular which puts more strain on the gears compared to automatic winding of the rotor where the force is more constant and controlled?What this means eventually is that automatic winding wears down the gears slower overall compared to manual winding.

Noob question pertaining manual winding as I don't own one yet:-

Will there be more wear and tear for manual winding compare to automatic winding (with occasionally manual wind)?

Answers is no. Automatic watch typically has more wear and tear compared to manual watches.
Automatic watches will continue to wind when worn and needs a mainspring clutch to avoid overwinding when power reserve is full
A wound up manual watch will just run its course until the end of its power reserve. You just have to make sure not to overwind it manually to avoid damage.

With less parts and less complicated, they are easier to service too (and should be relatively cheaper).


Modern day hand-wound mechanical watches are made from some of the finest materials and can surely deal with regular usage and in this case, how it is meant to be used; winding the crown with hand.

Even the simplest hand-wound pocket watches would have the stem winding the smaller winding gear to the larger ratchet gear to reduce torque and allow minimal strength to wind the mainspring. The transfer of the irregular force that you refer to would be minimal to the rest of the watch mainspring or gear-train (hour/minutes/second) gear, hence unlikely wear from just winding the watch manually.

Check out watches like Glashutte Original's Senator Chronometer where they use a more elaborate planetary gear system for their winding and power reserve. It is silky smooooth.... Other fine examples are any of the standard Piaget hand-movements.

If any wear, it would be the Keyless-Works and that may be due to poor assembly or trying to wind it when worn on the wrist (angular/lateral forces that may damage the stem, hence advice is always take off the watch when winding manually)

Also, the force is not constant and controlled in an automatic watch, especially when worn, because we engage in different types activities and different patterns of lifestyle throughout the day.

It would be constant however, if the watch is strapped to a watch winder.

But would this wear the parts less than a manual watch? again the answer is no due to the constantly rotating rotor despite the mainspring is full. It's like a car accelerating and applying breaks in the same time (not a perfect analogy, but close)

In any case, with modern and improved materials nowadays, the difference between the 2 is very minimal. As long as the watches are not misused, and serviced regularly (within average of 5 years), it should outlast the owner. Even the most humble ETA/Valjoux can last longer than most of us here, if serviced and maintained well.


« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 11:24:46 AM by sidestreaker »

Offline kenji1903

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2014, 11:37:33 AM »
another noob question..
Isn't it possible that for manual winding watches, the force applied on winding the crown could be higher and irregular which puts more strain on the gears compared to automatic winding of the rotor where the force is more constant and controlled?What this means eventually is that automatic winding wears down the gears slower overall compared to manual winding.

Noob question pertaining manual winding as I don't own one yet:-

Will there be more wear and tear for manual winding compare to automatic winding (with occasionally manual wind)?

Answers is no. Automatic watch typically has more wear and tear compared to manual watches.
Automatic watches will continue to wind when worn and needs a mainspring clutch to avoid overwinding when power reserve is full
A wound up manual watch will just run its course until the end of its power reserve. You just have to make sure not to overwind it manually to avoid damage.

With less parts and less complicated, they are easier to service too (and should be relatively cheaper).


Modern day hand-wound mechanical watches are made from some of the finest materials and can surely deal with regular usage and in this case, how it is meant to be used; winding the crown with hand.

Even the simplest hand-wound pocket watches would have the stem winding the smaller winding gear to the larger ratchet gear to reduce torque and allow minimal strength to wind the mainspring. The transfer of the irregular force that you refer to would be minimal to the rest of the watch mainspring or gear-train (hour/minutes/second) gear, hence unlikely wear from just winding the watch manually.

Check out watches like Glashutte Original's Senator Chronometer where they use a more elaborate planetary gear system for their winding and power reserve. It is silky smooooth.... Other fine examples are any of the standard Piaget hand-movements.

If any wear, it would be the Keyless-Works and that may be due to poor assembly or trying to wind it when worn on the wrist (angular/lateral forces that may damage the stem, hence advice is always take off the watch when winding manually)

Also, the force is not constant and controlled in an automatic watch, especially when worn, because we engage in different types activities and different patterns of lifestyle throughout the day.

It would be constant however, if the watch is strapped to a watch winder.

But would this wear the parts less than a manual watch? again the answer is no due to the constantly rotating rotor despite the mainspring is full. It's like a car accelerating and applying breaks in the same time (not a perfect analogy, but close)

In any case, with modern and improved materials nowadays, the difference between the 2 is very minimal. As long as the watches are not misused, and serviced regularly (within average of 5 years), it should outlast the owner. Even the most humble ETA/Valjoux can last longer than most of us here, if serviced and maintained well.
excellent explanation bro :thumbsup:

Offline sidestreaker

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2014, 12:20:54 PM »
This is why I am in dilemma to choose my second panerai, but Finally I get a automatic with the design I like. thank you for all advises from members!  :Cheers:
wrist shots! ;D

Agree, it's compulsory after getting this much of attention!  ;D ;D

Offline el118

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Re: automatic vs hand wind
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2014, 12:47:52 PM »
Movement are secondary to me when it comes to modern panerai. It's the appearance of the dial and case that's more important. However that being said, I do find majority of the panerai that I like happens to be hand wind.

I do have automatics but more than 75% of my panerai are hand wind.

The dial and case must come before the movement. That is the usual case for ppl buying panerai.

Best
T

Agreed. The importance of movements are sometimes overly hyped. oftentimes new "in-house" movement is actually less robust than proven "3 party" movement.