Appreaciating Workmanship

[Gigi]

Hi guys,

I just curious how do i see the difference in build quality between a range in mid range and a watch in a high price range. Not to mention watches in the same price range.

I cant really see the difference as in bracelet quality or case build quality apart from dial design or movement used.

Can anyone pls enlighten me? 

What does "quality" of a watch mean to yo 

[takashi78]

For me if i cant see the difference then its not worth it for me to buy it. Simple as that.
Workmanship and quality is not for someone to tell you its there but for you to see whats it worth to you.

[gapper]

very subjective question here, some ppl go for case material, while some go for movement decoration and some go for dial.

i don't own a Seiko Ananta nor Sinn or Damasko.... but try check out the steel used, the cut, curve and the brush/polish finishing on a Seiko Ananta, or beadblast effect on Sinn or Damasko... those are top notch quality. sometime pics do not do the justice for the real piece itself.

as for movement deco, we hv Colimacon (anonimo n etc),perlage (rolex n etc), geneva bars (unitas 6497) and etc finishings.. very subjective..

but for beginner like me, i think steel used in Rolex, Seiko GS/Ananta series and German make Sinn/damasko are above my appreciation as of now.

[duniajam]

For me.... just like the meaning of 'beautiful'.... it is very subjective. Some say beautiful, some may not...

Same as quality....  A RM200 Seiko 5 runs for 20 years without any services.... its quality too man  .... For me the meaning of 'quality' differ from person to person. Nobody wrong for what his/her interpretation about quality. It is what you think & your interpretation about it... you love it... you buy it.

 

[G.MAC]

quality for me means the overall watch itself...i like a solid reliable watch..it is pointless for me if the finishing is good but the watch is not accurate or it can have the most accurate timekeeping but the finishing is plasticky..so i look at quality at both ways..like a BMW for example anyway, i only buy what i love and love is blind

[chrisyen]

quality better is relatively compare one with the other

case - material - 304 steel cant be better than 316 steel. then rolex use more expensive and better chemical resistant 904 steel
                       sinn u series use better sea water resistant submarine steel
                       titanium - many grades.... seiko titanium is definitely lighter and easier to get scratches than those used by iwc and ball....
                       precious metal? bronze, gold, rose gold, yellow gold.... platinum
                       high tech material - carbon, ceramic, zenium ....
                       special material like titanic steel...
       - finishing - non finish, brush, beat blasted, polish....
       - coating - pvd, dlc, citizen has its own coating
       - processed material - sinn tegiment, damasko ice hardened,etc
       - cutting - how precise is your cnc machine? more accurate mean better fit with other part...
       - engraving - a master engrave or a beginner engrave is different

dial - material - silver, gold, brass, moon dust?
        finishing - engrave, skeleton, or just painting
        marker - polish? luminous ( different grade), diamond (so many grade)....

hand - a gs hands is better than rolex hands right? a hand blued still is more expensive then a chemical blued steel right?

crown - screw in is better than non screw in right? a viton gasket is better than a silicon rubber right? a silicon is better than normal rubber right?
         - cutting & finishing - a quality one wont cut your finger when u wind it
                                    - a more precise cut will be easier to screw in than the not that precise one right?

movement - reliability - a rolex is more reliable than a seiko right?
               - material
                            - balance spring - anachron better than nivaflex-1 right? paralex? breguet blued spring?
                            - balance wheel - glucydur is better than single type metal one right?
                            - stone - diamond better than ruby then steel or brass right?  
               - coating - gold, rose gold, rhodium is much more expensive nickel right?
               - level of finishing - polish better than non right? hand finish more human feel right? bevel? a screwed gold chaton is better than non right?
               - decoration - skeleton, engraving, gold plated on engraved area, etc
               - accuracy - a COSC eta is more accurate than a non cosc right? a screwed balance better than non right?
              

crystal - coating, material, thickness.....

bracelet - finishing, thickness, design, comfort level....

strap - material alone alot of different

buckle - type folding, butterfly, pin.... material, coating, finishing, design....

overall design - is subjective right? but majority like will end up superior one to another in used market

am i answer your question?



        
      

[duniajam]

chrisyen... 

[David_cheong]

Chrisyen......you're really fantastic! You have my salute.

dc

[Samajaya168]

walau eh Chris 

speaking like d watch guru himself 

[kltime]

For me if i cant see the difference then its not worth it for me to buy it. Simple as that.
Workmanship and quality is not for someone to tell you its there but for you to see whats it worth to you.

I totally agree with u. For me, first of all u hv 2 b satisfied with the overall quality of the watch....
Then after that its more the USP(unique selling proposition laa...) of the watch and how it appeals to u. Case in point is I have a :

Rolex - High end,for corporate functions or special occasions. Its a Rollie after all
Ball   - Daily watch, medium end, good value to build quality...plus I like the tritium tubes !!!
Vostok Amphibian - Affordable category but I like the uniqueness and "old school' Russian design. Still gets reasonable wrist time!!

My point is quality is subjective and so is value and what u are willing to pay for a watch. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

[duniajam]

My point is quality is subjective and so is value and what u are willing to pay for a watch. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

 

[shijiko_7]

CHRISYEN da SIFU Has spoken.... all hail..... the Sifu.....

[YAN@Watch:WerkzSGP]

wa... chrisyen, hats off to you...

so adding on all the sifus here, i would say quality is something whereby the watch can withstand the harshest of elements and time; looking and working as new?

quality can also add some beautification workmanship.

ultimately, I think quality is something the object possess that distinguishes itself significantly from others, usually in the positive concoction.

[Gigi]

thanks folks on replying 

i guess this is more subjective from a person to person...

[ckcspice]

i hav learnt that quality means nothing if u dun like the watch...ur frens n other forummers may tell u this brand has this kind of material used bla bla bla...but in the end, u gota choose the piece that sings to u...the one whihc u have a connection with...i made the mistake of taking other ppl's advice n ended up selling the watch off few months down the road...it was definitely a quality piece, but i just couldnt connect to it...hahaha...4 me, watches r n emotional n passionate hobby....cheers

[dennis.T]

Yes, always choose the piece that sings to u... even though i knew the QC for Sinn is so-so (or worse) only but i still go for their U1..no regret till now man..

[danny]

movement - reliability - a rolex is more reliable than a seiko right?
              

Hi Chris,
Good response. I geenrally agree with you except for the point regarding Seiko movement reliability.

No offence to all the Rolex owners here but I believe a Seiko is not necessarily less reliable than a Rolex. The 6105 is known for its robustness and reliability as can be testified by the thousands of GIs who owned these watches during the Vietnam war. Also I'm quite sure the 7S26 is not a wimpy caliber either.

Maybe some of the Seiko fans here would like to share their views on this.

 

[duniajam]

I may not having a Rolex..... yet.... hahaha.... But in progress to get one. Hehe.... 

I think Seiko movement has a good reputation in reliability department. Maybe better than most Swiss.. sorry not to offended anybody.... but they got prove for that....

Here is what I read from a friend who quote from other forum to the one who is 'kutuk'-ing Seiko....

And lets not forget before the Swiss COSC was formed as it is now, there was then Observatory testing and competitions to a much higher standard. Now with the lesser test Swiss COSC around 95% pass first time. Fact with careful regulation most any modern movement could pass the COSC test any brand any country.

And during the entire 23 years of testing, 5093 wristwatches were submitted for certification, and only 3253 were passed, about 64%. Just a few manufacturers participated, and only Omega and Patek did so every year. The others were: Rolex, Zenith, Longines, Movado, Vacheron & Constantin, Ulysse Nardin, Cyma and Favre-Leuba, along with numerous independent professional watchmakers. That was until Seiko come on the scene and started to wipe the floor with the Swiss mechanical watch industry. Only 2 brand in the + 23 years of the competitions submitted movements of serial production for retail sale (Seiko and GP). All others were specially made movements just for the competition. And it was ended by the swiss in the 1970s after two straight wins by the Japanese straight off the production line Seiko Grand.

Seiko first entered the competition,with watches from all over the world. Including most of the Swiss high end brands. For a much higher standard than the COSC, the Astronomical Observatory Authorisation Chronometer Standard. Out of many watches summited only two passed this test Seiko Grand just a production model, and Giraud Peregaux a specially build for the test model. And in the late 60s there were only two companies, who could sell watches, passed astronomical observatory authorisation Chronometer in those days. ---Seiko and Giraud Peregaux. As the Japanese had dominated in the late 60s and the two preceding events, in 1972 some Swiss watch manufacturers demanded the end of the observatory competitions, and it was ended in 1973,thats when the lesser test Swiss COSC was founded.


Not many of us know about this. Seiko history in making watches is one of the best on the planet.

[danny]

Not many of us know about this. Seiko history in making watches is one of the best on the planet.

Well said  .

 

[kltime]

I think Seiko movement has a good reputation in reliability department. Maybe better than most Swiss.. sorry not to offended anybody.... but they got prove for that....

  Well said. I hv watches ranging from affordables to the top swiss brands. Lower price does not necessarily translate to lower reliability,or vice versa. As we move up in price range,we are paying good $$$ for the brand as well. Celebrity endorsement by George Clooney(omega) or leonardo di caprio(tag heuer) is not free and eventually is absorbed by the consumer. I think I once read that Rolex is the biggest advertiser in terms of $$$.

[Cocas]

Hi guys,

I just curious how do i see the difference in build quality between a range in mid range and a watch in a high price range. Not to mention watches in the same price range.

I cant really see the difference as in bracelet quality or case build quality apart from dial design or movement used.

Can anyone pls enlighten me? 

What does "quality" of a watch mean to yo 

It got to have something unique and have artistic element that is uncommon and very beautiful.

[kukujiao]

I wear my Seikos mor than my Rollies. I think end of the day is what you like... brand become secondary

Sent from my SM-N9208 using Tapatalk

[meoramri]

I wear my Seikos mor than my Rollies. I think end of the day is what you like... brand become secondary

Sent from my SM-N9208 using Tapatalk

+1


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[Cocas]

I may not having a Rolex..... yet.... hahaha.... But in progress to get one. Hehe.... 

I think Seiko movement has a good reputation in reliability department. Maybe better than most Swiss.. sorry not to offended anybody.... but they got prove for that....

Here is what I read from a friend who quote from other forum to the one who is 'kutuk'-ing Seiko....

And lets not forget before the Swiss COSC was formed as it is now, there was then Observatory testing and competitions to a much higher standard. Now with the lesser test Swiss COSC around 95% pass first time. Fact with careful regulation most any modern movement could pass the COSC test any brand any country.

And during the entire 23 years of testing, 5093 wristwatches were submitted for certification, and only 3253 were passed, about 64%. Just a few manufacturers participated, and only Omega and Patek did so every year. The others were: Rolex, Zenith, Longines, Movado, Vacheron & Constantin, Ulysse Nardin, Cyma and Favre-Leuba, along with numerous independent professional watchmakers. That was until Seiko come on the scene and started to wipe the floor with the Swiss mechanical watch industry. Only 2 brand in the + 23 years of the competitions submitted movements of serial production for retail sale (Seiko and GP). All others were specially made movements just for the competition. And it was ended by the swiss in the 1970s after two straight wins by the Japanese straight off the production line Seiko Grand.

Seiko first entered the competition,with watches from all over the world. Including most of the Swiss high end brands. For a much higher standard than the COSC, the Astronomical Observatory Authorisation Chronometer Standard. Out of many watches summited only two passed this test Seiko Grand just a production model, and Giraud Peregaux a specially build for the test model. And in the late 60s there were only two companies, who could sell watches, passed astronomical observatory authorisation Chronometer in those days. ---Seiko and Giraud Peregaux. As the Japanese had dominated in the late 60s and the two preceding events, in 1972 some Swiss watch manufacturers demanded the end of the observatory competitions, and it was ended in 1973,thats when the lesser test Swiss COSC was founded.


Not many of us know about this. Seiko history in making watches is one of the best on the planet.

Glad to read this piece of horological history.