Malaysia Watch Forum
Main Forums => General Discussion - Modern Watches => Topic started by: TheHobbit on October 30, 2012, 07:45:39 PM
-
additional advice: I know you'll probably feel a bit lost because your PAM would probably not have minute markers and you'll not be accustomed to this because you have been wearing a daytona all the while. But fret not, Donaldo, it's still considered a "tool watch" whatever that means and despite the absence of minute markers. Its primary function is to make you look invincible like Stallone or one of those famous Italian actors and gangsters; telling time (if at all) is purely secondary.....
Contrary to popular belief, there are Panerai models with the minute markers, PAM00249 and even the Mare Nostrum models. As for why Panerai watches that do not have the minute markers, the watches were used in part to time the activation of explosives. Since these explosives can only be set to the nearest half hour or hour, there was no need to have the minute markers.
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/Rahmen_instrument_XL_071.jpg)
Photograph: vintagepanerai
-
additional advice: I know you'll probably feel a bit lost because your PAM would probably not have minute markers and you'll not be accustomed to this because you have been wearing a daytona all the while. But fret not, Donaldo, it's still considered a "tool watch" whatever that means and despite the absence of minute markers. Its primary function is to make you look invincible like Stallone or one of those famous Italian actors and gangsters; telling time (if at all) is purely secondary.....
Contrary to popular belief, there are Panerai models with the minute markers, PAM00249 and even the Mare Nostrum models. As for why Panerai watches that do not have the minute markers, the watches were used in part to time the activation of explosives. Since these explosives can only be set to the nearest half hour or hour, there was no need to have the minute markers.
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/Rahmen_instrument_XL_071.jpg)
Photograph: vintagepanerai
Interesting info Hobbitt, but is that a watch or is that a detonator?
-
BTW, the Royal Navy thought it was a pretty cool idea as well, just the design a tad off.......
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/C155.jpg)
Photograph: James Dowling
-
Interesting info Hobbitt, but is that a watch or is that a detonator?
Detonator...
-
Interesting info Hobbitt, but is that a watch or is that a detonator?
Detonator...
Exactly, Hobbitt. The pic you posted is that of a detonator not a watch. There was some posting about this exact device a while back, you'll still find it at:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/638808/thread/1324304858/Tool+of+the+Week,,,,,,+week+2-+Timing+devices+and+detonators
or just google "panerai detonator".
In one of the pictures posted by ASIMUT, you'll see the box containing the detonator. On the box is written the words "9 GIORNI". In Italian that means "9 days". So the rotating disc in the pic you posted are graded in days, not hour and half an hour. Perhaps you can share with the members here where you got the information that ".....these explosives can only be set to the nearest half hour or hour"??? And what is the logical link that lead you to say there is no need to have minute markers on the watch??
By the way, the words on the cover of the detonator are not helpful, they merely say:
In order to avoid dangerous circuit closures you must take the following precautions:
(1) This counter should never be left graded to zero.....
(2) Make sure before graduation that the on/off switch on the top of outer casing is opened....
-
Frankly, I'd rather it stir up the heat and give me a ha** on as I always believe melting is for ladies...
:Laughing_on_floor:
Ahem....ahem.....then I think I may have found the right PAM for you (after some googling the web for the best pic).......
(http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg574/loochunboon/pamela_anderson.jpg)
:Startled: :Startled:
I'll take 2 please. Charge my card now.
:-* :-*
-
Interesting info Hobbitt, but is that a watch or is that a detonator?
Detonator...
Exactly, Hobbitt. The pic you posted is that of a detonator not a watch. There was some posting about this exact device a while back, you'll still find it at:
...
In one of the pictures posted by ASIMUT, you'll see the box containing the detonator. On the box is written the words "9 GIORNI". In Italian that means "9 days". So the rotating disc in the pic you posted are graded in days, not hour and half an hour. Perhaps you can share with the members here where you got the information that ".....these explosives can only be set to the nearest half hour or hour"??? And what is the logical link that lead you to say there is no need to have minute markers on the watch??
...
Thanks for clarifying. I had thought that this was a Panerai watch with the dial off and was admiring how simple the movement was as it did say Vintage Panerai on the picture....
:Laughing_on_floor: :Laughing_on_floor:
Anyway, I do observe dots between the digits and would that be the half-hour marks? And seeing that the best you could set up the detonator was in half-hour intervals, why did they not take out the 5 minute markers as well?
:Laughing_on_floor:
-
Interesting info Hobbitt, but is that a watch or is that a detonator?
Detonator...
Exactly, Hobbitt. The pic you posted is that of a detonator not a watch. There was some posting about this exact device a while back, you'll still find it at:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/638808/thread/1324304858/Tool+of+the+Week,,,,,,+week+2-+Timing+devices+and+detonators
or just google "panerai detonator".
In one of the pictures posted by ASIMUT, you'll see the box containing the detonator. On the box is written the words "9 GIORNI". In Italian that means "9 days". So the rotating disc in the pic you posted are graded in days, not hour and half an hour. Perhaps you can share with the members here where you got the information that ".....these explosives can only be set to the nearest half hour or hour"??? And what is the logical link that lead you to say there is no need to have minute markers on the watch??
By the way, the words on the cover of the detonator are not helpful, they merely say:
In order to avoid dangerous circuit closures you must take the following precautions:
(1) This counter should never be left graded to zero.....
(2) Make sure before graduation that the on/off switch on the top of outer casing is opened....
Cool info. We learn something new everyday. Strangely enough the info I got with regards to why there is no minute markers is from the same source. I guess we now know better. The quest to find out more about the design of the dial continues.
-
oppps!
days not hours. how did i miss that?? :HammerHead:
Enkidu must have spent a lot of time in Italy or eating too much pasta... that was what you ordered at the GTG too.. :Laughing_on_floor:
That or he's got an Italian version of the Pam 36DD... :Laughing_on_floor:
-
Anyway, I do observe dots between the digits and would that be the half-hour marks? And seeing that the best you could set up the detonator was in half-hour intervals, why did they not take out the 5 minute markers as well?
:Laughing_on_floor:
They could, but then they would have to install the hour markers. :)
-
Of course they design it in such a way that you can only set half or hour detonations.
Seriously have you seen the way the Italians work? :Laughing_on_floor:
This is not exactly German speed and efficiency we are talking about :laugh:
-
Frankly, I'd rather it stir up the heat and give me a ha** on as I always believe melting is for ladies...
:Laughing_on_floor:
Ahem....ahem.....then I think I may have found the right PAM for you (after some googling the web for the best pic).......
(http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg574/loochunboon/pamela_anderson.jpg)
Is that the Special Edition 1 of 1 PAM 36DD? ;D
still prefer the original 38DD :Cheers:
-
Why don't we shift this talk to the "fashion" and "discussion" thread?
:Confused:
-
oppps!
days not hours. how did i miss that?? :HammerHead:
Enkidu must have spent a lot of time in Italy or eating too much pasta... that was what you ordered at the GTG too.. :Laughing_on_floor:
That or he's got an Italian version of the Pam 36DD... :Laughing_on_floor:
OK lah, I am fat, no need to stress the fact that I eat "too much pasta". In fact, I don't really remember what I ate that night at Kuching's The Den. Too busy bashing PAM and drank a little more than my aged bladder with limited liquid retention capacity can handle........ :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
And not all Italians wear PAMs. One who was born in Scaffhausen Switzerland and started his soccer career there seems to like his IWC chrono....
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Rl2yWtMozSxvm9gsy1k6ItMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0
-
Why don't we shift this talk to the "fashion" and "discussion" thread?
:Confused:
Yes, you are right. This is intended to be a PAM glorifying thread. Sorry.
We should have been more sensitive. OT, so Takashi Pete (a.k.a the Vigilant Mod) should be swooping in on us soon..... :laugh:
-
Now I know why there's only '1' successful raid by the infamous Decima X. Seriously it takes so long for detonation, you'll think the enemies would get smart by doing more frequent sweeps.
The Italians really deserve the bad and incompetent rep they get in WWII history.
-
now that I'm sober, it makes me wonder why they made a detonator for NINE DAYS? in Stallone's movies, his timers are set for 30 seconds or thereabouts. i mean, seriously, 9 DAYS ??
it takes them that long to sneak out after planting the bomb?
-
oppps!
days not hours. how did i miss that?? :HammerHead:
Enkidu must have spent a lot of time in Italy or eating too much pasta... that was what you ordered at the GTG too.. :Laughing_on_floor:
That or he's got an Italian version of the Pam 36DD... :Laughing_on_floor:
OK lah, I am fat, no need to stress the fact that I eat "too much pasta". In fact, I don't really remember what I ate that night at Kuching's The Den. Too busy bashing PAM and drank a little more than my aged bladder with limited liquid retention capacity can handle........ :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
And not all Italians wear PAMs. One who was born in Scaffhausen Switzerland and started his soccer career there seems to like his IWC chrono....
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Rl2yWtMozSxvm9gsy1k6ItMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0
well.. i didn't state that you're fat. self-conscious are we? ??? ??? ???
pasta was only brought up since you seem to be able to read Italian.. ;D ;D ;D
but it's nice to have a wrist that could pull off the AP ROOs.. i'd love to have the wrist size but not the rest of the fat...
OOPPPSS!!! I used the fat word... OK.. my bad, next time in Kuching, beers and pasta on me again..
:Laughing_on_floor: :Laughing_on_floor:
-
Interesting detonator. Still finding out more about it. Evidently it is an electrical detonator with a 9 days mechanical backup. Trying to find out more, ie how it works and such.
-
now that I'm sober, it makes me wonder why they made a detonator for NINE DAYS? in Stallone's movies, his timers are set for 30 seconds or thereabouts. i mean, seriously, 9 DAYS ??
it takes them that long to sneak out after planting the bomb?
I am not an ordnance buff so I am not 100% sure if other WWII detonators had similar features. In the web-site I posted yesterday, there's another Panerai timer with PROBABLY a 20-minute counter. From the box, looks like a prototype only.
Once you search, you'll find all sorts of stories, pics, docs etc claiming and trying to build a connection between Panerai and the Italian Navy and the Kampfschwimmer. How much is true? How much is legend, myth and pure nonsense? If you are a hard core risti, all that is good and glorious are real, if you are hard core sceptic like me, everything will be taken with a very unhealthy pinch of salt and cynicism. Even if you produce a WWII Italian navy frogman in front of me and he claims he wore a panerai in one of his missions, "yea sure" I'll say and I'll first ask him to produce his birth cert and bring another Italian frogman to verify his story. No end, believe me.
9 days?? Well, I am sure Benito can set the timer to half a day also. Nine days is the max. With so much time (measured in days) from activation to detonation, it explains why these Italians did not need a watch with minute markers. In fact, they didn't actually need a watch. They should be issued with a table top calendar and a pencil.........goes something like this:
Hey Luca, you still remember when we planted that explosive with that 9-day Panerai detonator on that English ship?? What??.... on the 2nd of May, just before dinner?? And you set it for a full 9 days?? OK, then it should go off just before dinner time on 11 of May. Hahaha...those English pirates will be sent swimming back to their filthy island of shopkeepers to have their afternoon tea......let me write that down on my Panerai Monthly Table Top Calendar less I forget again...the Duce will be proud of us, ....hey, where is my pencil......
-
Thanks to enkidu for the link. So far what I manage to find out is that the detonator/ timer is a stainless steel detonator/ timer device from the 1940s. It is a electro-mechanical device with a 9 day back up and is a 10 hour detonator/ timer. Will update once I find out more.
As for Panerai history, well, take it with a pinch of salt if you must, but if you do, do the same for any other brands, climbing Mount Everest, timing the Apollo 13 burn sequence, failing the NASA test to qualify for the moon, being the first diver watch, etc.
As for the Italian diver, Mr. Emilio Bianchi just celebrated his 100 birthday. Likely candidate for an interview I guess?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Alexandria_(1941)
-
Some light reading....
http://www.watchtime.at/archive/wt_2008_02/WT_2008_02_208.pdf
-
As for Panerai history, well, take it with a pinch of salt if you must, but if you do, do the same for any other brands, climbing Mount Everest, timing the Apollo 13 burn sequence, failing the NASA test to qualify for the moon, being the first diver watch, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Alexandria_(1941)
Of course, one needs to exercise much discretion when dealing with all these claims. The more fantastic the claim, the more we need to check. This applies to all brands. Never believe everything that is nice, never disbelieve everything that is bad. The truth often lies somewhere in the middle. Where in the middle? Do some research with an open mind and from independent sources. Easy example is the claim "First Watch Worn on the Moon". The watch that went to the moon had the Cal.321 movement. The present moonwatch ref:3570, 3590 etc are powered by different movements, not the Cal 321. None of the watches produced by Omega since the 1980's have gotten any where near the moon. Omega will never openly tell you that.
-
As for Panerai history, well, take it with a pinch of salt if you must, but if you do, do the same for any other brands, climbing Mount Everest, timing the Apollo 13 burn sequence, failing the NASA test to qualify for the moon, being the first diver watch, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Alexandria_(1941)
Of course, one needs to exercise much discretion when dealing with all these claims. The more fantastic the claim, the more we need to check. This applies to all brands. Never believe everything that is nice, never disbelieve everything that is bad. The truth often lies somewhere in the middle. Where in the middle? Do some research with an open mind and from independent sources. Easy example is the claim "First Watch Worn on the Moon". The watch that went to the moon had the Cal.321 movement. The present moonwatch ref:3570, 3590 etc are powered by different movements, not the Cal 321. None of the watches produced by Omega since the 1980's have gotten any where near the moon. Omega will never openly tell you that.
The KEY words... something sorely lacking these days...
-
As for Panerai history, well, take it with a pinch of salt if you must, but if you do, do the same for any other brands, climbing Mount Everest, timing the Apollo 13 burn sequence, failing the NASA test to qualify for the moon, being the first diver watch, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Alexandria_(1941)
Of course, one needs to exercise much discretion when dealing with all these claims. The more fantastic the claim, the more we need to check. This applies to all brands. Never believe everything that is nice, never disbelieve everything that is bad. The truth often lies somewhere in the middle. Where in the middle? Do some research with an open mind and from independent sources. Easy example is the claim "First Watch Worn on the Moon". The watch that went to the moon had the Cal.321 movement. The present moonwatch ref:3570, 3590 etc are powered by different movements, not the Cal 321. None of the watches produced by Omega since the 1980's have gotten any where near the moon. Omega will never openly tell you that.
The KEY words... something sorely lacking these days...
Yes, very true. Very lacking indeed.
Judgement cast in stone, based on past experience, society norm, what you read, what you believe, what they want you to believe, etc.....
An open mind...... Indeed a much required characteristics.
-
Of course, one needs to exercise much discretion when dealing with all these claims. The more fantastic the claim, the more we need to check. This applies to all brands. Never believe everything that is nice, never disbelieve everything that is bad. The truth often lies somewhere in the middle. Where in the middle? Do some research with an open mind and from independent sources. Easy example is the claim "First Watch Worn on the Moon". The watch that went to the moon had the Cal.321 movement. The present moonwatch ref:3570, 3590 etc are powered by different movements, not the Cal 321. None of the watches produced by Omega since the 1980's have gotten any where near the moon. Omega will never openly tell you that.
It is true that most if not all watches or brands are a shadow of its former self, dependent on its past glory (true or otherwise). But where do we draw the line?
The current moon watch by Omega has never been on the moon, but it has been in space. It is the current iteration of a past model.
The current explorer is no longer the same as the explorer that went up Mount Everest, but a modern interpretation of it.
The current Panerai watches have never been to war but is a modern interpretation of its roots.
The current Breguet Type XX was never issued to the military, unlike its ancestors.
The Tudor Pelagos has its ancestors in the Snowflake of past that were issued to the French Military.
The current Daytona is not the same as the one worn by Paul Newman.
And the list goes on.
So if we remove all these, what are we left with? Do we buy watches based on current glory? Current news? Kobold does come to mind.....
People do buy watches based on history, or the want to be associated with past glories, the belief that it different, great perhaps. Some watches has horrible past, very unpopular, could not even sell. Suddenly a movie star is seen wearing one and the watch is popular and now fetch unbelievable prices and premium. But are the current offerings the same as its ancestors? Nope, the movement is no longer the same, among other things that have changed along the way. But should that be a reason not to get the watch? Do we doubt its capabilities? It is any less accurate or reliable?
-
So if we remove all these, what are we left with? Do we buy watches based on current glory? Current news? Kobold does come to mind.....
People do buy watches based on history, or the want to be associated with past glories, the belief that it different, great perhaps. Some watches has horrible past, very unpopular, could not even sell. Suddenly a movie star is seen wearing one and the watch is popular and now fetch unbelievable prices and premium. But are the current offerings the same as its ancestors? Nope, the movement is no longer the same, among other things that have changed along the way. But should that be a reason not to get the watch? Do we doubt its capabilities? It is any less accurate or reliable?
I see that CK has moved this discussion away from the original thread, and fearing the discussion could be explosive, he titled the new thread Panerai Detonator :D :D.
I believe what we are discussing here is the historical claims and history of a brand /watch and how to differentiate between what the watch company wants us to believe and what is the truth. Often when we discuss the history or the historical claims made by a brand, the discussion drifts to buying. OK, let's call it "acquiring" or "acquisition" because buying is only one of the many ways you can get your hands on a watch you like. The act of acquiring the watch is only the cause or result of (among many other reasons) knowing the actual history of the brand. That is, you acquire the watch because you discovered that the watch indeed played a part in human history. Conversely, after acquiring a watch, you got interested in its history and the history of the company and you started digging the truth. Or it could be a combination of both if you are acquiring multiple pieces having the same brand. The economics of buying behaviour are discussed in tons of books, the issue here however is how to distilled the truth from the myth, legends, pseudo-history perpetuated by watch companies and the armies of fanboys (OK, OK, sensitive word, should be used sparingly). Mixing these 2 issues will lead to nowhere, like catching the wind I'm afraid.
You can only acquire what's in the present. If you love the past, get a vintage piece. Too expensive? Save up for it and wait for the right piece to come along. But whatever your buying decsion, it should not stop you from finding out the truth. It's only natural to think of such issues if you are a WIS - like "I think therefore I am" -that I am able to wonder whether I exist, proves that I do exist, hence that I am able to wonder these issues rove that I am a WIS. If you do not, then you are reduced to being a fanboy ( :laugh: sorry, cannot find a better word).
Now, back to the question of why many PAM watches do not have minute markers. These watches were intended for under water use. Perhaps underwater and also under the belly of a ship. In such dim surrounding, minute markers are not visible anyway. If you need to read the minute markers, you need to drag along a big clock. So they omitted the minute markers. In the tough wartime economy, both sides cut corners as much as they could, and omitting the minute markers made sense. Just my theory.
And unless someone can clearly present exactly and logically how the panerai watches without minute markers can be used to "time the activation of explosives" and how this logically fits in with explosives can only "be set to nearest half hour or hour", then this thing about using panerai watches to set dangerous explosives and detonators mst also be exiled to the realm of myths and nonesense. The Italian soldiers were incompetent but I guess they were not careless with their own lives. In fact, history shows they were quite careful with their lives, preferring to surrender when the odds are bad and perhaps give away their panerais as war booty. Just my theory. ;D
-
To me, there is a need to separate the collectors, fan boys and the brand itself. Once we can do that, we progress to identify what is true and what is not.
As for collecting vintage watches, the cost, the minefield of Franken watches and fakes.... Enough to scare off many a potential collector. So a modern interpretation of the original is much welcomed. If not, many watch companies would not be around anymore, more so that one that does not seem to issue anything new but more of the same year after year.
As for why Panerai watches does not have the minute markers, yes, less is good. And you hit the nail on the head. Perhaps it is wrong to say that the design is based on the detonator, perhaps inspired by its simplicity? Maybe even the other way around. Anyway be it what it is, the watches were produced to the requirements of the Italian navy at the time. Perhaps it was their requirement that the dial be as simple as possible and as clear as possible? Who knows unless we can find the exact specs the navy put up.
As for using a watch without minute markers to activate and time an explosive. Why not? Activate it to the nearest 5 minutes and start. Set it up to detonate in half an hour. Swim away. You can activate the detonator at 1005, and have it go off at 1035. You have half an hour to swim away.
As for the detonator itself, I am waiting for a couple of responses. Hope these people respond and perhaps bring light to the device itself. One of the people I wrote to actually has one for sale. Just a recap, it looks like it is a 10 hour detonator/ timer, stainless steel, electro-mechanical with a 9 days mechanical backup.
-
Where are the PAM experts in MWF who can shed more light?
-
Where are the PAM experts in MWF who can shed more light?
Sadly to say, I don't think there's anymore PAM experts.
When push comes to shove... none to be seen... so much for hardcore.
-
As for using a watch without minute markers to activate and time an explosive. Why not? Activate it to the nearest 5 minutes and start. Set it up to detonate in half an hour. Swim away. You can activate the detonator at 1005, and have it go off at 1035. You have half an hour to swim away.
As for the detonator itself, I am waiting for a couple of responses. Hope these people respond and perhaps bring light to the device itself. One of the people I wrote to actually has one for sale. Just a recap, it looks like it is a 10 hour detonator/ timer, stainless steel, electro-mechanical with a 9 days mechanical backup.
Not being an expert on explosives etc, we can only speculate how (if at all) the panerai watches were used for such purpose. But soldiers & sailors surely do more than just planting explosives and swimming and running away. And the Italians were definitely not the only ones planting explosives and swimming and running away.
So, one way to look at this matter is of course looking at other military issue watches from that period. From the pics I have seen most if not all german issue watches with the AS 1130 movement whether to the Heer (with DH marking) and the Kriegsmarine (with the KM marking) have minute markers. Likewise for the British and American Hamilton issued watches.
Without minute markers, the use of the watch becomes limited. It only tells time to the exact minute 12 times every hour. Because if the minute hand is between 05 and 10 minute marks, then scientifically, you can only say the time is between XXo'clock 5 minutes and XXo'clock 10 minutes. Not very precise I am afraid.
And why do you need a 9 day mechanical backup for a detonator that will go off in 10 hours max?????? Where can we find this information?
-
Where are the PAM experts in MWF who can shed more light?
I'm afraid PAM expert won't be of any help. "PAM" is the designated for the use of naming model of post vendome era.
A WW weapon like this is going into the another area of GPF altogether. GPF is the name Panerai use during the WW and early post war era.
Whether GPF really make these device all on their own is also up to debate. I would rather think GPF as an assembler of sort. Meaning they buy/order bits and pieces of what they need and build the device they need to fulfill the military order.
They are not really a manufacturer of sort in the modern sense.
That leaves the debate whether all the parts that went into these device actually serve a purpose. Maybe they are just leftover of what have been strip out. The true is we lack official document to make a sure statement.
No help from Panerai because Richemont sold that part of the business and together with all the records.
Regards
Tyler
-
Where are the PAM experts in MWF who can shed more light?
Be patient Pete, once the discussion shifts to leather straps, ammo straps, painted dial, sandwich dial, patina (who can forget this?)..etc you will get more contributions and pics posted. Be patient.... ;D
-
Where are the PAM experts in MWF who can shed more light?
Be patient Pete, once the discussion shifts to leather straps, ammo straps, painted dial, sandwich dial, patina (who can forget this?)..etc you will get more contributions and pics posted. Be patient.... ;D
I actually agree with you on this. However unwilling I am but honestly it's the truth.
Only about 20% of the Panerai collector goes into the history Panerai. It's about the same for Rolex. Who cares the Explorer I never really make it to Mount Everest or all the modern rolex no longer make by human but machine.
One thing for sure. When the fanboys so show up. I can count on you to be there as well.
Regards
Tyler
-
As for using a watch without minute markers to activate and time an explosive. Why not? Activate it to the nearest 5 minutes and start. Set it up to detonate in half an hour. Swim away. You can activate the detonator at 1005, and have it go off at 1035. You have half an hour to swim away.
As for the detonator itself, I am waiting for a couple of responses. Hope these people respond and perhaps bring light to the device itself. One of the people I wrote to actually has one for sale. Just a recap, it looks like it is a 10 hour detonator/ timer, stainless steel, electro-mechanical with a 9 days mechanical backup.
Not being an expert on explosives etc, we can only speculate how (if at all) the panerai watches were used for such purpose. But soldiers & sailors surely do more than just planting explosives and swimming and running away. And the Italians were definitely not the only ones planting explosives and swimming and running away.
So, one way to look at this matter is of course looking at other military issue watches from that period. From the pics I have seen most if not all german issue watches with the AS 1130 movement whether to the Heer (with DH marking) and the Kriegsmarine (with the KM marking) have minute markers. Likewise for the British and American Hamilton issued watches.
Without minute markers, the use of the watch becomes limited. It only tells time to the exact minute 12 times every hour. Because if the minute hand is between 05 and 10 minute marks, then scientifically, you can only say the time is between XXo'clock 5 minutes and XXo'clock 10 minutes. Not very precise I am afraid.
And why do you need a 9 day mechanical backup for a detonator that will go off in 10 hours max?????? Where can we find this information?
Well, hope the people who knows (I hope) replies my email. Then I will update on the device.
As for the watch being limited in use, perhaps that is why it is issued to the divers, Italian, Germans and Egyptians. The other branches of the military use other suppliers.
The funny thing is, the initial batch of watches, reference 3646 with the California dial had the minute markers. Only the later reference 3646 with the 3,6,9,12 dial did not have the markers. We can only speculate as to why this happened.
-
Patina? The bane of Rolex, and now Panerai. Now spreading to other brands as well.....
As for the painted dial and sandwich dial, perhaps one day we will get into that discussion....
-
Dont get me started on the "fake" patina.
I say let it age naturally.
Although for modern watches this aint gonna happen.
-
Patina? The bane of Rolex, and now Panerai. Now spreading to other brands as well.....
As for the painted dial and sandwich dial, perhaps one day we will get into that discussion....
Patina? I hope to God that doesn't happen to any of my watches. I'd have to sell it off cheaply then. What use is lume that doesn't work and looks like breadcrumbs?
:Laughing_on_floor:
-
Hi guys. Interesting thread. Haha. Why suddenly talk about Panerai detonator? Or was it minute markers. I won't buy a Radiomir if it has minute markers. Cos it won't look cool. Not fashionable with minute markers. I won't buy Rolex if it does not come with minute markers. I buy Rolex because of hmmm for practical reasons it is the most accurate when it comes to watch brands.
Eh why u all take Panerai so seriously. It is not the perfect watch. To spill the beans I just sent my Radiomir for repair as it's under warranty. Wore for less than a year the winding stem and the setting lever kaputed. Damaged. And then last evening when I was drinking it received fresh dings and scratches. Hurt a bit but well our cars also receive same scratch and dents and they cost 10 times as much.
Anyways just my rambling. Enkidu still not getting any Panerai? It's a fund watch. Very simple watch and fun to wear. Girls like them. It's a chick magnet.
-
I meant fun NOT fund.
-
I meant fun NOT fund.
Helloooooooooo...of course we know it's a fun watch. Of course we know Panerai cannot be taken seriously. What do you think I have been saying all these while?? But watch out, your idol Master Hobbit (a.k.a The Supreme Guardian Angel of the House of PAM) may be swooping down on you pretty soon to explain why PAM is considered a fun watch. Don't look at me!! ;D ;D
And Kenny, I am so sorry you got a lemon. Let me see, first it was Felix's PAM, then Sooncheng's PAM, then....., ......, now yours. Hmmmm.....looks like there is a whole orchard of PAM lemons out there, all within the past 2 months. But not really surpirising. Lemon is an essential ingredient in mediterranean cooking.
And thanks for sharing your story. What can I say?? Maybe I'll just say what the ristis always say:
Bro, you just earned my full respect, I salute you!!!
:Cheers: :Cheers: :Dancing_banana: :Dancing_banana: :Dancing_banana:
-
I bought one to try to understand the craze and madness surrounding Panerai. I have read fully the history and how Panerai came about. I guess I am not passionate enough as other owners of Panerai. But it's ok if they are and I respect that. actually my Speedmaster had to be sent in for repair during warranty 6 years ago. The stop lever had a problem during winding. To be fair sometimes it's luck. And u know what, Rolex has it's problems too. My Explorer I the "9" was slightly detached from the dial, floating. So sent it to RSC and they did it for free. They had to I guess. It took them only 10mins. Remove bezel and sapphire and fixed the "9".
-
Eh why u all take Panerai so seriously. It is not the perfect watch. To spill the beans I just sent my Radiomir for repair as it's under warranty. Wore for less than a year the winding stem and the setting lever kaputed. Damaged. And then last evening when I was drinking it received fresh dings and scratches. Hurt a bit but well our cars also receive same scratch and dents and they cost 10 times as much.
Interesting to note that you have had this problem. Was the problem the winding crown or the winding stem and setting lever? Others have had problems with the crown, once you pull out to time setting mode, it is difficult to push the crown back in. Did you have the same issue?
-
I meant fun NOT fund.
Helloooooooooo...of course we know it's a fun watch. Of course we know Panerai cannot be taken seriously. What do you think I have been saying all these while?? But watch out, your idol Master Hobbit (a.k.a The Supreme Guardian Angel of the House of PAM) may be swooping down on you pretty soon to explain why PAM is considered a fun watch. Don't look at me!! ;D ;D
And Kenny, I am so sorry you got a lemon. Let me see, first it was Felix's PAM, then Sooncheng's PAM, then....., ......, now yours. Hmmmm.....looks like there is a whole orchard of PAM lemons out there, all within the past 2 months. But not really surpirising. Lemon is an essential ingredient in mediterranean cooking.
And thanks for sharing your story. What can I say?? Maybe I'll just say what the ristis always say:
Bro, you just earned my full respect, I salute you!!!
:Cheers: :Cheers: :Dancing_banana: :Dancing_banana: :Dancing_banana:
Dpkong,
What was it that was lacking in this thread?
-
Hobbit wont dare claim the title Supreme Guardian Angel of Pam yet...He has to complete the task thrown to him which is
to produce a WWII Italian navy frogman that actually participated in a mission. Even that also, must produce birth cert and pull another Italian frogman out of the hat to verify story..
:Laughing_on_floor:
sorry, cant resist...my amateurish interpretation of the direction of the discussion so far
-
Aaaaarrgghhh!! Does this mean in order to verify Felix's recent stratosphere jump wearing a Zenith Stratos, someone have to jump with him in tandem as proof?
Noooooooo..... :Startled:
-
Aaaaarrgghhh!! Does this mean in order to verify Felix's recent stratosphere jump wearing a Zenith Stratos, someone have to jump with him in tandem as proof?
Noooooooo..... :Startled:
Like you Hanz, i was over the moon seeing Felix did the jump...but now... :'(..all hopes came crashing down to earth...
...unless there was another co-jumper... :o
Also, did Felix showed you his birth cert before he jump?
-
Aaaaarrgghhh!! Does this mean in order to verify Felix's recent stratosphere jump wearing a Zenith Stratos, someone have to jump with him in tandem as proof?
Noooooooo..... :Startled:
Actually, after all the excitement and drooling over the Stratos (like a rabid Zenith fanboy) that day, it did cross my mind...hey what if that fellow was wearing a mock up plastic band pretending it was a stratos? Did anyone actually verify the watch immediately before the jump and immediately after he landed? I guess not. Even if he was wearing a real Zenith Stratos, did anyone check it was still working when he landed? I guess not. Zenith may have screwed up their once in 150 years chance to glory. So, in 50 years' time, some Zenith cynic (probably a ZENKIDUT) will be askng these probing questions irritating his fellow forum members...
So Hanz you are not going to get your Stratos anymore?
-
Aaaaarrgghhh!! Does this mean in order to verify Felix's recent stratosphere jump wearing a Zenith Stratos, someone have to jump with him in tandem as proof?
Noooooooo..... :Startled:
Like you Hanz, i was over the moon seeing Felix did the jump...but now... :'(..all hopes came crashing down to earth...
...unless there was another co-jumper... :o
Also, did Felix showed you his birth cert before he jump?
No need lah. For all we care, it could be PEXUS jumping. The question is whether the watch actually accompanied whoever that jumped and was still working when he landed. In the panerai scenario, asking for his birthcert or passport was just to verify he is indeed Emilio Bianchi and since it was a clandestine mission (unlike FB's well televised jump with Zenith printed on his suit and his ground crew wearing Zenith) how can we know he was / wasn't even wearing a swimming trunk unless his mate verifies for him? :laugh:
-
Interesting to note that you have had this problem. Was the problem the winding crown or the winding stem and setting lever? Others have had problems with the crown, once you pull out to time setting mode, it is difficult to push the crown back in. Did you have the same issue?
[/quote]
It was fine until sometime in August. Pull out crown to adjust the time afterwhich push crown back in, cannot feel the "click" sound. That's when I realized something was wrong. Worse still, when screw lock the crown, u can feel metal grinding sound. Parts have to be ordered and replaced for stem banking and lever setting jumper.
-
I meant fun NOT fund.
Helloooooooooo...of course we know it's a fun watch. Of course we know Panerai cannot be taken seriously. What do you think I have been saying all these while?? But watch out, your idol Master Hobbit (a.k.a The Supreme Guardian Angel of the House of PAM) may be swooping down on you pretty soon to explain why PAM is considered a fun watch. Don't look at me!! ;D ;D
And Kenny, I am so sorry you got a lemon. Let me see, first it was Felix's PAM, then Sooncheng's PAM, then....., ......, now yours. Hmmmm.....looks like there is a whole orchard of PAM lemons out there, all within the past 2 months. But not really surpirising. Lemon is an essential ingredient in mediterranean cooking.
And thanks for sharing your story. What can I say?? Maybe I'll just say what the ristis always say:
Bro, you just earned my full respect, I salute you!!!
:Cheers: :Cheers: :Dancing_banana: :Dancing_banana: :Dancing_banana:
Dpkong,
What was it that was lacking in this thread?
Some sense of humour. ;D
No need to get so wound up, Master Hobbitt. That was just a digression. People who wear big 47mm watches have a big heart. I am sure they are not that sensitive.
-
Interesting to note that you have had this problem. Was the problem the winding crown or the winding stem and setting lever? Others have had problems with the crown, once you pull out to time setting mode, it is difficult to push the crown back in. Did you have the same issue?
It was fine until sometime in August. Pull out crown to adjust the time afterwhich push crown back in, cannot feel the "click" sound. That's when I realized something was wrong. Worse still, when screw lock the crown, u can feel metal grinding sound. Parts have to be ordered and replaced for stem banking and lever setting jumper.
[/quote]
Ah, the same problem faced by others. So Panerai service Center establish the problem is with the movement and not the crown itself? Was the crown replaced? I have read that in some cases, it was just a simple crown replacement as there was a problem with the internal spring mechanism of the crown. How long did it take Panerai to get everything sorted out?
-
I meant fun NOT fund.
Helloooooooooo...of course we know it's a fun watch. Of course we know Panerai cannot be taken seriously. What do you think I have been saying all these while?? But watch out, your idol Master Hobbit (a.k.a The Supreme Guardian Angel of the House of PAM) may be swooping down on you pretty soon to explain why PAM is considered a fun watch. Don't look at me!! ;D ;D
And Kenny, I am so sorry you got a lemon. Let me see, first it was Felix's PAM, then Sooncheng's PAM, then....., ......, now yours. Hmmmm.....looks like there is a whole orchard of PAM lemons out there, all within the past 2 months. But not really surpirising. Lemon is an essential ingredient in mediterranean cooking.
And thanks for sharing your story. What can I say?? Maybe I'll just say what the ristis always say:
Bro, you just earned my full respect, I salute you!!!
:Cheers: :Cheers: :Dancing_banana: :Dancing_banana: :Dancing_banana:
Dpkong,
What was it that was lacking in this thread?
Some sense of humour. ;D
No need to get so wound up, Master Hobbitt. That was just a digression. People who wear big 47mm watches have a big heart. I am sure they are not that sensitive.
Nothing to be wound up about. I know you have no love for Panerai and your Panerai bashing will just continue. Nothing to be sensitive about, there will always be haters.
-
Nothing to be wound up about. I know you have no love for Panerai and your Panerai bashing will just continue. Nothing to be sensitive about, there will always be haters.
No love - yes, hater, perhaps just a maybe at the maximum.
One of the most intriguing part of the panerai watch offering is the lack of minute markers in most of the watches. Now, if I were a true hater, I would have just stuck to the view that it's just down to bad and lazy design. But I have told you what my theory is on the omission of minute markers - minutes markers are virtually illegible under dim condition, hence they were unnecessary. Tough wartime economy also justified the omission to reduce costs. I truly wonder if any panerai lover would bother to give a neutral explanation for any deficiency in the panerai watches.
-
Nothing to be wound up about. I know you have no love for Panerai and your Panerai bashing will just continue. Nothing to be sensitive about, there will always be haters.
No love - yes, hater, perhaps just a maybe at the maximum.
One of the most intriguing part of the panerai watch offering is the lack of minute markers in most of the watches. Now, if I were a true hater, I would have just stuck to the view that it's just down to bad and lazy design. But I have told you what my theory is on the omission of minute markers - minutes markers are virtually illegible under dim condition, hence they were unnecessary. Tough wartime economy also justified the omission to reduce costs. I truly wonder if any panerai lover would bother to give a neutral explanation for any deficiency in the panerai watches.
I have no issues with the dial design of Panerai watches. That said, I too wonder why the minute markers were removed when the initial offering to the military had the markers. We can only speculate the reasons back then.
Fast forward to today. Yes, it is great that Panerai has decided to maintain the dial design in its modern interpretation of its watches. Some people like them, some don't. As most of the people who buys the watches now would hardly use them for its intended use, ie diving, most would not care if it had the minute markers or even a rotating bezel to time dive time (as a back up to a dive computer).
I agree that in the Submersible, perhaps having minute markers would be more relevant to others, but again (speculation at best), Panerai is of the opinion that staying true to the roots is more important and that perhaps most of the buyers would not use the watch for the intended design.
To me, it is strange that on earlier GMT models, there were the minute markers, but subsequent models no longer have the markers. The need to stay true overrides the need for the watch to be practical? Same with earlier chrono models. In this case, the opposite applies. In the earlier offerings, there were no intermediate markers between minute markers. That changed in the later offerings, but only one intermediate marker between the minute markers.
I can only guess that accurate time keeping was not an important thing.
There are much that I like about Panerai as there are much that I don't. Panerai of past, and that was not so long ago, and Panerai today has changed. I don't like their distribution channel or what they have planned, I don't really like the current SE/LE thing that they do, but it was great that the 372 was not a single run, allowing true collectors access to it. I don't deny or try to hide there are issues with the watch, look at my interest on the Radiomir crown issue that one of the guys is having.
There are lots to talk about actually, once you can leave behind the strap thing, the ever larger 47 is the new 44 mantra and a host of other things. If you want to know, I have sold my collection before because I was not happy with the way things were going. But later I realised, the loss was mine. I like the watches, not really what the brand was doing. So, I got back in, buying what I like, collecting what I want and ignoring what I did not like about what was happening. And you will be surprised as to how many out there are like me.
As dpkong said, once we can have an open mind (which I try very hard to do), we can have a lively open discussion about the watches, the brand, etc, which others can join in, without the fear of someone lurking, waiting to pounce to bring down the brand or the watches. As you said, I truly wonder if any Panerai lover would bother to give a neutral explanation for any deficiency in the Panerai watches. How would or could that happen when the other party itself is not neutral?
-
As dpkong said, once we can have an open mind (which I try very hard to do), we can have a lively open discussion about the watches, the brand, etc, which others can join in, without the fear of someone lurking, waiting to pounce to bring down the brand or the watches. As you said, I truly wonder if any Panerai lover would bother to give a neutral explanation for any deficiency in the Panerai watches. How would or could that happen when the other party itself is not neutral?
After reading your last paragraph above, it becomes clear where you have mistaken I am afraid. What has neutrality to do with anything here? Although we can give neutral explanation, how can we adopt a neutral position? Can debates proceed with both parties adopting neutral positions? Not that I am aware of. I don't think you yourself have been neutral in your arguments and position, and I certainly don't expect you to be. If you have been neutral how can you counter-check if I made a mistake? And vice-versa.
Having an open mind does not mean neutrality. It only means you should consider what your opponent proposes constructively. If it's correct we accept it. If it's incorrect, we say why we believe it's incorrect and with reasons. For example, when you first posted the pic of the detonator, I remembered it was a 9-day detonator. But you mentioned hour and half an hour. So I checked the words on the cover if I missed out anything. No, the words were not helpful. So I told you in my reply it was actually a 9-day detonator. When you said your sources said it was actually a 10-hour timer with 9 day mechanical backup, I went back to check the number of slashes on the rotating to see if it could be graded to "10". I don't think so, so I asked you where we can find the information you mentioned. You said you were still waiting. And yes, I am also still waiting. I did not dismiss it outright and certainly did not claim you were hiding unfavourable information. If you can show clearly it's actually a 10-hour detonator and the 9 days only refers to the mechanical back-up (which I also need some explanation why), I'll accept it with an open mind - that "9 days" written on the box only refers to the mechanical back-up. No big deal.
In your earlier post, you said I would continue with my "Panerai bashing". I guess "bashing" should normally mean using really unkind words like "trash", "rubbish" or "junk". I know I have said things like "too busy bashing PAM" but if you go through my posts, do you find any such real bashing words coming from me? Or is it a situation:-
Saying my opinion that Panerai is a fashion watch is bashing?
The instances of member's PAM watches needing repair can be read by all in this forum, recounting them is bashing?
Posting a sexy pic of Pamela Anderson is bashing?
Saying PAM watches are deficient timekeepers because of lack of minute markers ==> bashing?
Or in your eyes Panerai has been elevated from a cult watch to become a full fledged religion? Thus beyond comment and immune from criticism? The non-ristis can just ask neutral questions with bowed heads, our peasant hats in trembling hands, agreeing to whatever the risti high priests have to say?? ::) ::) ::)
-
I opine that for certain models of Panerai, especially when it comes with sandwich dial, minute markers cannot be had. Why cos design and implementation cannot be rendered. Imagine and look for yourself. Minute markers on the dial can only be had for non-sandwich dial, ie applied markers dial.
Without minute markers is good cos to the wearer it feels more laid-back. Matter of plus minus one minute no life death situation.
A Panetisti holds true to what they believe in the brand. I am not sure even if they would voice out problems experienced on the watch. When they do, usually encountered with silence, defence, boycott, discouragement. Yes, it has become a cult religion. They always say through Panerai they meet friends and people. It's the people. If that is the case, Facebook better source for friends. Maybe they are shy to really admit, they have been cursed by the force of this religion. Resistance is futile.
I am going wind up my Radiomir after this and wear for the weekend. :thumbsup:
-
Not all Risti are the same. Just as not all watch from a brand are worth collecting. Enjoy your 210.
Regard
Tyler
-
I agree that not all ristis are the same.
Unfortunately, it seems like the empty no substance brash and loud outnumber those quiet knowledgeable ones with substance.
It is said that when the water subsides... you will know who is swimming naked.
My own personal opinion.
Today.
People like the watch but dislike ristis.
Future.
People hate the watch BECAUSE of ristis.
-
I agree that not all ristis are the same.
Unfortunately, it seems like the empty no substance brash and loud outnumber those quiet knowledgeable ones with substance.
It is said that when the water subsides... you will know who is swimming naked.
My own personal opinion.
Today.
People like the watch but dislike ristis.
Future.
People hate the watch BECAUSE of ristis.
Interesting Hanz. I used to `dislike' Rolex because of my prejudice towards certain type of people who wears them. I believe you were in the same boat.
But we were both `converted', eventually..hahaha ;D
To me, i still find it strange to dislike a brand due to bad experiences with a passionate but perhaps snobbish bunch of followers. I mean if you ask me to wear my 14060 t-dial to attend a Rolex gathering, which i know is about counting whose watch has the bigger number of diamonds on their dials or more amount of gold per gram, I will also avoid (anyway, disclaimer: do Rolex followers organise such gatherings? :Laughing_on_floor:..I dont know). But my point is how die hard followers behave should not influence my feelings towards the product they are worshipping. Unless if its a really a lemon tree (As compared to the occasional lemon here and there ;D).
-
I agree that not all ristis are the same.
Unfortunately, it seems like the empty no substance brash and loud outnumber those quiet knowledgeable ones with substance.
It is said that when the water subsides... you will know who is swimming naked.
My own personal opinion.
Today.
People like the watch but dislike ristis.
Future.
People hate the watch BECAUSE of ristis.
Sadly the future is now.....
-
I agree that not all ristis are the same.
Unfortunately, it seems like the empty no substance brash and loud outnumber those quiet knowledgeable ones with substance.
It is said that when the water subsides... you will know who is swimming naked.
My own personal opinion.
Today.
People like the watch but dislike ristis.
Future.
People hate the watch BECAUSE of ristis.
Interesting Hanz. I used to `dislike' Rolex because of my prejudice towards certain type of people who wears them. I believe you were in the same boat.
But we were both `converted', eventually..hahaha ;D
To me, i still find it strange to dislike a brand due to bad experiences with a passionate but perhaps snobbish bunch of followers. I mean if you ask me to wear my 14060 t-dial to attend a Rolex gathering, which i know is about counting whose watch has the bigger number of diamonds on their dials or more amount of gold per gram, I will also avoid (anyway, disclaimer: do Rolex followers organise such gatherings? :Laughing_on_floor:..I dont know). But my point is how die hard followers behave should not influence my feelings towards the product they are worshipping. Unless if its a really a lemon tree (As compared to the occasional lemon here and there ;D).
Based on pictures I have seen during the Rolex Passion gtg... I don't think they will be counting diamonds or weighing gold... it's about the watches... and vintage ones... (which means we do not qualify as well) ;D
But the bright side is... the gtg is about WATCHES...
Try comparing it with another well known gtg...
I agree that not all ristis are the same.
Unfortunately, it seems like the empty no substance brash and loud outnumber those quiet knowledgeable ones with substance.
It is said that when the water subsides... you will know who is swimming naked.
My own personal opinion.
Today.
People like the watch but dislike ristis.
Future.
People hate the watch BECAUSE of ristis.
Sadly the future is now.....
Ouch!!... You got balls my friend... ;D
-
As dpkong said, once we can have an open mind (which I try very hard to do), we can have a lively open discussion about the watches, the brand, etc, which others can join in, without the fear of someone lurking, waiting to pounce to bring down the brand or the watches. As you said, I truly wonder if any Panerai lover would bother to give a neutral explanation for any deficiency in the Panerai watches. How would or could that happen when the other party itself is not neutral?
After reading your last paragraph above, it becomes clear where you have mistaken I am afraid.
Or in your eyes Panerai has been elevated from a cult watch to become a full fledged religion? Thus beyond comment and immune from criticism? The non-ristis can just ask neutral questions with bowed heads, our peasant hats in trembling hands, agreeing to whatever the risti high priests have to say?? ::) ::) ::)
Huh? Where in my last paragraph did I say you were afraid? I thought it was others (outsiders) that is afraid. If you have read that statement as you being afraid, then I do apologise, evidently my English is not so good.
As pointed out by Hanz, and I agree, Panerai has become a cult watch. Sad indeed. Why? Because it can alienate potential buyers from getting into the brand, afraid (the potential buyers) of being labeled a cult follower, or ridiculed by others or even worse, causing real collectors who does not want to be associated with the cult thing into the shadows. Look at some of the Panerai forum out there, shadow of its former glory. Why? The cult thing?
Is Panerai beyond criticism? To some yes, to me no. I think they have made many mistakes, many missteps, and for that matter some current ones which I don't agree. Episodes like the PAM195, PAM360, PAM318, the SE/LE models, Ecru lume (fake Patina), moving to a boutique only distribution channel are some of the things Panerai could have handled better.
But at the end of the day, I like it for what it is. A watch to tell time, with a simple easy to read dial, great history and DNA. And one of the perks? A simple push of a button (assuming you opt for the simple strap change mechanism models) and a different strap, and you have a 'new' watch without buying a new watch.
With regards to the detonator, the information I got that it is a 10 hour detonator is from a German site and the owners are Panerai collectors. Don't want to link the site because it is a commercial site. But it is stated in the site that it is a 10 hour detonator.
I have thus far one response on the device, but I will take that one with a pinch of salt (bags full actually). The response was it is a device to measure the speed of the SLC. I am guessing it is because on the other side of the device is this:
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/IMG_5258.jpg)
Photograph: Asi
Have to admit it does look like a speedometer.
I, however think that it is the indicator for the 9 days mechanical backup.
-
Maybe i am more simple minded besides being a vigilante like Enkidu said i am.
You sure like to use "aka" alot ;D
As much as i dont like certain brands based on my own uncle sense of style and over 50yrs old i dont wage an all out "war" to diss certain brands.
I just stop buying them or not even buy my first.
This thread however gave me a whole new insight to Panerai in the "side biz" that they did way before. Interesting watch general knowledge.
My England may not be as good as most of you but i just came across this pic on the internetz....
Heeeey its Friday !!!
(http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/355/7motivatenouct8.jpg)
-
I agree that not all ristis are the same.
Unfortunately, it seems like the empty no substance brash and loud outnumber those quiet knowledgeable ones with substance.
It is said that when the water subsides... you will know who is swimming naked.
My own personal opinion.
Today.
People like the watch but dislike ristis.
Future.
People hate the watch BECAUSE of ristis.
Your words too strong. I dont hate Panerai not Ristis. I will give all Ristis a hug if i see one, i will give Tyler or Ivan a hug. Just because they like the brand so much does not mean we dont like the people right? I dont consider myself a risti of Rolex, Omega, or even Panerai. You have to embrace a religion to have strong beliefs about one. I just enjoy wearing one, cos it create conversations with ppl like Enkidu. LOL. People dont hate Panerai bcos of Ristis. There will be war and calamity if that happens. This are passionate bunch.
-
Why i bought Panerai cos i like how it looks on my wrist. And i want to know what it is all about. See, all of us whether we realize or not, we are being sold based on millions of nerves sending emotions to our brains. For me, Panerai's history and its watches has a lot of emotions in them. Yes, the story we read a thousand times about Egyptian Navy and Englishmen and Italians fighting and wearing their Panerai. So when the watch was first produced, not so famous, Rocky wore it, became famous, owners dug up history deeper and deeper until it created emotional links, vintage showed up in auctions, became big hit in HK, every wrist wants one, it created a club, exclusive or not, i dont know, P.com was created, boom, the brand just became so hot.
There is not other watch out there shaped and designed like a Luminour or Radiomir case. Original and genuine ones only. Their watch design has emotions, maybe due to the fact that it may lack minute markers, but i seriously do not want minute markers on my Radiomir or even a Luminor dial. U ask me, if once the dust settles, is Panerai still going to be hot? I say yes! Very hot or even hotter. Unless something terribly go wrong in quality. Rolex, Omega, IWC, same thing. Patek. VC, every well known reputable watch brand out there is very emotional in advertising, media communications, etc. But Panerai did it in the shortest time a period of less than what, 25 years, to become THE Brand?
-
How can anyone not like this? Sandwich and lume and no minute markers. Lovely!! Simple pleasures.
(http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w477/kennypane/99EE2001-E0D4-4E64-9CB8-9D8245F68378-2286-0000037EE1E54E70_zpsb34829a3.jpg)
-
I agree that not all ristis are the same.
Unfortunately, it seems like the empty no substance brash and loud outnumber those quiet knowledgeable ones with substance.
It is said that when the water subsides... you will know who is swimming naked.
My own personal opinion.
Today.
People like the watch but dislike ristis.
Future.
People hate the watch BECAUSE of ristis.
Your words too strong. I dont hate Panerai not Ristis. I will give all Ristis a hug if i see one, i will give Tyler or Ivan a hug. Just because they like the brand so much does not mean we dont like the people right? I dont consider myself a risti of Rolex, Omega, or even Panerai. You have to embrace a religion to have strong beliefs about one. I just enjoy wearing one, cos it create conversations with ppl like Enkidu. LOL. People dont hate Panerai bcos of Ristis. There will be war and calamity if that happens. This are passionate bunch.
Then my friend I am afraid you haven't met any ristis 1st hand.
Do I consider Tyler a risti? I don't know.
He loves pams, owned several pcs that are considered grail status.
Do I consider Hobbit a risti? I don't know.
The number of pams he owned is in the double digits. He loves the brand and the watches.
Now ask these 2 gentleman the question "Do you consider yourselves Ristis?" Or "What does it MEAN to be a risti?" Or better yet "Does the association with ristis make you proud irregardless wether you are one or not but just because you own one?"
You'd be surprised with the answers.
No doubt pam is hot at the moment.
No doubt they did it within a short amount of time.
But ask yourself this... how many ppl that buy the watch for the love of the watch and not to join any bandwagon or brotherhood, or for the money they can make just because they have access to LE and SE while normal mortals don't? How many "genuinely" loves the watch?
I do agree they are a passionate bunch...
That is why I love threads like these that challenge some debate.
And also to separate between the wannabes and the real deal.
This thread, the roll call thread and the fashion thread.
Read from start to finish... enjoy.
-
As dpkong said, once we can have an open mind (which I try very hard to do), we can have a lively open discussion about the watches, the brand, etc, which others can join in, without the fear of someone lurking, waiting to pounce to bring down the brand or the watches. As you said, I truly wonder if any Panerai lover would bother to give a neutral explanation for any deficiency in the Panerai watches. How would or could that happen when the other party itself is not neutral?
After reading your last paragraph above, it becomes clear where you have mistaken I am afraid. What has neutrality to do with anything here? Although we can give neutral explanation, how can we adopt a neutral position? Can debates proceed with both parties adopting neutral positions? Not that I am aware of. I don't think you yourself have been neutral in your arguments and position, and I certainly don't expect you to be. If you have been neutral how can you counter-check if I made a mistake? And vice-versa.
Having an open mind does not mean neutrality. It only means you should consider what your opponent proposes constructively. If it's correct we accept it. If it's incorrect, we say why we believe it's incorrect and with reasons. For example, when you first posted the pic of the detonator, I remembered it was a 9-day detonator. But you mentioned hour and half an hour. So I checked the words on the cover if I missed out anything. No, the words were not helpful. So I told you in my reply it was actually a 9-day detonator. When you said your sources said it was actually a 10-hour timer with 9 day mechanical backup, I went back to check the number of slashes on the rotating to see if it could be graded to "10". I don't think so, so I asked you where we can find the information you mentioned. You said you were still waiting. And yes, I am also still waiting. I did not dismiss it outright and certainly did not claim you were hiding unfavourable information. If you can show clearly it's actually a 10-hour detonator and the 9 days only refers to the mechanical back-up (which I also need some explanation why), I'll accept it with an open mind - that "9 days" written on the box only refers to the mechanical back-up. No big deal.
In your earlier post, you said I would continue with my "Panerai bashing". I guess "bashing" should normally mean using really unkind words like "trash", "rubbish" or "junk". I know I have said things like "too busy bashing PAM" but if you go through my posts, do you find any such real bashing words coming from me? Or is it a situation:-
Saying my opinion that Panerai is a fashion watch is bashing?
The instances of member's PAM watches needing repair can be read by all in this forum, recounting them is bashing?
Posting a sexy pic of Pamela Anderson is bashing?
Saying PAM watches are deficient timekeepers because of lack of minute markers ==> bashing?
Or in your eyes Panerai has been elevated from a cult watch to become a full fledged religion? Thus beyond comment and immune from criticism? The non-ristis can just ask neutral questions with bowed heads, our peasant hats in trembling hands, agreeing to whatever the risti high priests have to say?? ::) ::) ::)
Wah.. Debate still going on ?? Now the topic is on a detonator ?? haha ... really come out with something to talk about ... I got an idea , why dont post all your questions in Network54 ? let all those ristis reply you including me . hows that sound ?
Fanboy/Risti/Cult whatever you like to call it .
-
How can anyone not like this? Sandwich and lume and no minute markers. Lovely!! Simple pleasures.
(http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w477/kennypane/99EE2001-E0D4-4E64-9CB8-9D8245F68378-2286-0000037EE1E54E70_zpsb34829a3.jpg)
Nice Lume Kenny .. Base models are always a Beauty .... :)
-
By Fidoneo.
Wah.. Debate still going on ?? Now the topic is on a detonator ?? haha ... really come out with something to talk about ... I got an idea , why dont post all your questions in Network54 ? let all those ristis reply you including me . hows that sound ?
Fanboy/Risti/Cult whatever you like to call it .
Cool... this is like saying, come to my territory if you dare...
Why not ask them to come over?
Oh wait... I forgot that you're the authorized spokes person.
Post the link over at p.com if you like, and they can reply here if they like or if they think if it's worth their time.
And BTW, we all know anything negative about pams over at p.com will be deleted in an instant...
It's not a secret... it's a well known fact.
And you might be able to reply over at p.com, but I am also sure it will be more or less the same at "I agree" "Well Said" or something along those lines.
-
I agree that not all ristis are the same.
Unfortunately, it seems like the empty no substance brash and loud outnumber those quiet knowledgeable ones with substance.
It is said that when the water subsides... you will know who is swimming naked.
My own personal opinion.
Today.
People like the watch but dislike ristis.
Future.
People hate the watch BECAUSE of ristis.
Your words too strong. I dont hate Panerai not Ristis. I will give all Ristis a hug if i see one, i will give Tyler or Ivan a hug. Just because they like the brand so much does not mean we dont like the people right? I dont consider myself a risti of Rolex, Omega, or even Panerai. You have to embrace a religion to have strong beliefs about one. I just enjoy wearing one, cos it create conversations with ppl like Enkidu. LOL. People dont hate Panerai bcos of Ristis. There will be war and calamity if that happens. This are passionate bunch.
Then my friend I am afraid you haven't met any ristis 1st hand.
Do I consider Tyler a risti? I don't know.
He loves pams, owned several pcs that are considered grail status.
Do I consider Hobbit a risti? I don't know.
The number of pams he owned is in the double digits. He loves the brand and the watches.
Now ask these 2 gentleman the question "Do you consider yourselves Ristis?" Or "What does it MEAN to be a risti?" Or better yet "Does the association with ristis make you proud irregardless wether you are one or not but just because you own one?"
You'd be surprised with the answers.
No doubt pam is hot at the moment.
No doubt they did it within a short amount of time.
But ask yourself this... how many ppl that buy the watch for the love of the watch and not to join any bandwagon or brotherhood, or for the money they can make just because they have access to LE and SE while normal mortals don't? How many "genuinely" loves the watch?
I do agree they are a passionate bunch...
That is why I love threads like these that challenge some debate.
And also to separate between the wannabes and the real deal.
This thread, the roll call thread and the fashion thread.
Read from start to finish... enjoy.
I dont think they need to own grails to join a club. They own grails not for sale to make dosh. Lets come out and table talk over :Cheers: with u, Ivan, Tyler, and the Panerai Lover Enkidu. So serious how to drink, sigh. They dont walk or talk funny with Panerai on the wrist, lets put it that way. If they do pls tell me, LOL.
-
By: Kennypane
I dont think they need to own grails to join a club. They own grails not for sale to make dosh. Lets come out and table talk over :Cheers: with u, Ivan, Tyler, and the Panerai Lover Enkidu. So serious how to drink, sigh. They dont walk or talk funny with Panerai on the wrist, lets put it that way. If they do pls tell me, LOL.
Don't get me wrong.
I have utmost respect for both Ivan and Tyler.
I have read all if not most of their replies and they have what we call "substance"
At least better than a jesty reply that ask us to go over to their territory... Now him I would love to have a drink with...
-
(http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/355/7motivatenouct8.jpg)
THIS.
The moderator sets the tone of the forum. If you allow vigilantes and trolls to post what they want - even if they claim its all a "discussion", "in fun". After all, the Joker did say, "why so serious" before he massacred the whole place. Bashers are so keen to shove his/her opinions in your face, hence 2 derailed threads.
-
huh?? bring this discussion to p.com? really?
(http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/nandopexus/IMG-20121026-WA0007.jpg)
-
THIS.
The moderator sets the tone of the forum. If you allow vigilantes and trolls to post what they want - even if they claim its all a "discussion", "in fun". After all, the Joker did say, "why so serious" before he massacred the whole place. Bashers are so keen to shove his/her opinions in your face, hence 2 derailed threads.
When anything gets posted, the reader will decide if it's nonsense or not.
They can also choose to reply or not.
I don't think any opinion can be shoved in the face as you put it.
Disagree? Start typing away then...
Questions raised are legitimate by the way I see it.
Wether it is strong enough to stop a person buying a PAM?
I certainly don't think so.
But it does open another perspective as to how to look at claims of heritage or whatnot.
-
A drop of heritage...at the rate its going, due to all the streroids and supplements that have been administered since its resuscitation, many (mainly the less informed) will be drowned in its so-called sea of heritage.
-
THIS.
The moderator sets the tone of the forum. If you allow vigilantes and trolls to post what they want - even if they claim its all a "discussion", "in fun". After all, the Joker did say, "why so serious" before he massacred the whole place. Bashers are so keen to shove his/her opinions in your face, hence 2 derailed threads.
When anything gets posted, the reader will decide if it's nonsense or not.
They can also choose to reply or not.
I don't think any opinion can be shoved in the face as you put it.
Disagree? Start typing away then...
Really? No one can shove opinions in their faces? Two derailed threads, one discussing Panerai straps and the other Panerai picture roll-call. A self confessed hater shows up posting OT nonsense on the threads on a brand that he openly dislikes and mocks under the guise of "discussion"? He had his own "discussion" thread until everybody got fed up talking in it, why don't he resurrect it if he is so interested in the topic. It's not about Panerai anymore - it's attention seeking. If I had an ignore button like facebook, I'd use it.
Opinions like his are like a**-holes, everyone has them; if I wanted someone to bash my collection - I'll ask my sister-in-law. Right now, MWF is only useful to me because of the merchants section (got a few nice bargains from there thx); here in the discussion threads - not so much. The trolls run wild and are probably friends with the mods.
-
Huh? Where in my last paragraph did I say you were afraid? I thought it was others (outsiders) that is afraid. If you have read that statement as you being afraid, then I do apologise, evidently my English is not so good.
Hahaha...No, you did not say I was afraid and I did say you said I was afraid. Communication problem. English not so good?? Don't be modest.
That pic you just posted is also from the same web-site I posted the other day. I have in fact sent an e-mail to ANSI ASIMUT also. Let's see what he says.
Now that the crowd has joined in, I'll need to shield myself from the usual after-the-battle flame-throwers. So, maybe will not be able to answer all your questions in detailed. :thumbsup:
-
THIS.
The moderator sets the tone of the forum. If you allow vigilantes and trolls to post what they want - even if they claim its all a "discussion", "in fun". After all, the Joker did say, "why so serious" before he massacred the whole place. Bashers are so keen to shove his/her opinions in your face, hence 2 derailed threads.
When anything gets posted, the reader will decide if it's nonsense or not.
They can also choose to reply or not.
I don't think any opinion can be shoved in the face as you put it.
Disagree? Start typing away then...
Really? No one can shove opinions in their faces? Two derailed threads, one discussing Panerai straps and the other Panerai picture roll-call. A self confessed hater shows up posting OT nonsense on the threads on a brand that he openly dislikes and mocks under the guise of "discussion"? He had his own "discussion" thread until everybody got fed up talking in it, why don't he resurrect it if he is so interested in the topic. It's not about Panerai anymore - it's attention seeking. If I had an ignore button like facebook, I'd use it.
Opinions like his are like a**-holes, everyone has them; if I wanted someone to bash my collection - I'll ask my sister-in-law. Right now, MWF is only useful to me because of the merchants section (got a few nice bargains from there thx); here in the discussion threads - not so much. The trolls run wild and are probably friends with the mods.
Which is what led to the split off from the main roll call thread.
Now we have a seperate thread to talk about something that was raised which is quite interesting.
The Panerai Detonator... discussions seem to be going pretty well... for a time...
And lets not forget a fanboy / cult / risti (his words) comes in with a challenge... a mindless one at that... sissy even if I can say it.
-
I opine that for certain models of Panerai, especially when it comes with sandwich dial, minute markers cannot be had. Why cos design and implementation cannot be rendered. Imagine and look for yourself. Minute markers on the dial can only be had for non-sandwich dial, ie applied markers dial.
Without minute markers is good cos to the wearer it feels more laid-back. Matter of plus minus one minute no life death situation.
Hey, Kenny, from your posts I think I must be your new-found idol. I remember you wrote you're in KL? PM me for a drink this Saturday. Pavilion is good. And bring along that PAM of yours (promise I won't do anything o it).
-
Not all Risti are the same. Just as not all watch from a brand are worth collecting. Enjoy your 210.
Regard
Tyler
OK, this I cannot disagree. But the comradeship is so strong, it's hard to prevent hitting the innocent sometimes. For that, it's my turn to apologise!! ;D
-
Its Friday!
(http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/2009/10/20/129005641390077915.jpg)
-
By Fidoneo.
Wah.. Debate still going on ?? Now the topic is on a detonator ?? haha ... really come out with something to talk about ... I got an idea , why dont post all your questions in Network54 ? let all those ristis reply you including me . hows that sound ?
Fanboy/Risti/Cult whatever you like to call it .
Cool... this is like saying, come to my territory if you dare...
Why not ask them to come over?
Oh wait... I forgot that you're the authorized spokes person.
Post the link over at p.com if you like, and they can reply here if they like or if they think if it's worth their time.
And BTW, we all know anything negative about pams over at p.com will be deleted in an instant...
It's not a secret... it's a well known fact.
And you might be able to reply over at p.com, but I am also sure it will be more or less the same at "I agree" "Well Said" or something along those lines.
Hanz. i was just suggesting and no i wasnt asking you guys for a challenge , well if you think i am not welcome here , Please ask danny or the other moderators to ban me from THIS FORUM ok ? i shall write and reply whatever i like .. so what wrong with "i agree " , "well said " ? Do you have a problem with my replies ???
-
I opine that for certain models of Panerai, especially when it comes with sandwich dial, minute markers cannot be had. Why cos design and implementation cannot be rendered. Imagine and look for yourself. Minute markers on the dial can only be had for non-sandwich dial, ie applied markers dial.
Without minute markers is good cos to the wearer it feels more laid-back. Matter of plus minus one minute no life death situation.
Hey, Kenny, from your posts I think I must be your new-found idol. I remember you wrote you're in KL? PM me for a drink this Saturday. Pavilion is good. And bring along that PAM of yours (promise I won't do anything o it).
i know this is non of my business but enkidu, i hope you will set up a gtg... pavilion is an ideal meeting place.
-
Maybe i am more simple minded besides being a vigilante like Enkidu said i am.
You sure like to use "aka" alot ;D
As much as i dont like certain brands based on my own uncle sense of style and over 50yrs old i dont wage an all out "war" to diss certain brands.
I just stop buying them or not even buy my first.
This thread however gave me a whole new insight to Panerai in the "side biz" that they did way before. Interesting watch general knowledge.
My England may not be as good as most of you but i just came across this pic on the internetz....
Heeeey its Friday !!!
Where got all out war? Just posting a pic of topless male fashion models and Pamela Anderson considered all out war?
Yes, there is more to Panerai than most of us know. Lots of devices, timers, navigation instruments etc. For the best info, pics and diagrams googling may not be enough. For vintage gadget buffs, it can be a real treasure trove of knowledge. For leather strap, ammo strap loving folks unfortunately, such discussions are a complete waste of time and bandwidth. Hence, some of the heated reactions you received on this thread.
Add notes: And these devices may not be side-biz as you put it. Hobbitt and Tyler may know more, but I suspect it could be as important as if not more important than their watch biz during WWII.
Enkidu (A.K.A The Attention Seeker)
-
(http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii588/swleong77/Rambo-Panerai.jpg)
"WEAR PAM OR......"
Is Friday, why so serious ;D ;D ;D
-
hahahahhah a good one :) :thumbsup:
okay will wear mine today. it's been sitting in the drawer for more than a year.
still think Pam is a big con job sorry to say. just a small nobody's-plebian opinion.
DNA and what not nonsense, it's just an excuse to sell you a cheap watch under the guise of "heritage".
(http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii588/swleong77/Rambo-Panerai.jpg)
"WEAR PAM OR......"
Is Friday, why so serious ;D ;D ;D
-
i know this is non of my business but enkidu, i hope you will set up a gtg... pavilion is an ideal meeting place.
I have not got a reply from Kenny. But if he is game for a drink, I'll PM you and you can bring along your newly acquired 425 if you trust I won't do anything to it. ;D ;D Not a suitable time to organise a GTG I think, not just after I have been accused of being an attention seeker.
-
Hanz. i was just suggesting and no i wasnt asking you guys for a challenge , well if you think i am not welcome here , Please ask danny or the other moderators to ban me from THIS FORUM ok ? i shall write and reply whatever i like .. so what wrong with "i agree " , "well said " ? Do you have a problem with my replies ???
Unless any rules was broken repeatedly, I doubt anyone will ban you from this forum.
I could be wrong or my command of the english language might be shallow.
From what I can deduce from your post.
You are asking us to post whatever questions we have over at your home turf.
And over there, YOU and of course the ristis will answer the questions... my question is why there? What's wrong here?
I am sure your answers are highly revered at your home turf but unfortunately the discussion is here.
If they find it interesting enough, they can come over.
And if you can find a discussion even remotely as interesting, mind provoking, passion inducing thread over at your home turf... feel free to post the link here too... that is if you can find any...
Like I said, when the water subsides, you will know who is swimming naked.
-
Hanz. i was just suggesting and no i wasnt asking you guys for a challenge , well if you think i am not welcome here , Please ask danny or the other moderators to ban me from THIS FORUM ok ? i shall write and reply whatever i like .. so what wrong with "i agree " , "well said " ? Do you have a problem with my replies ???
Unless any rules was broken repeatedly, I doubt anyone will ban you from this forum.
I could be wrong or my command of the english language might be shallow.
From what I can deduce from your post.
You are asking us to post whatever questions we have over at your home turf.
First P.com is not My homeground. MWF IS !. i found friends in this forum. ! and i respected each and every one of you except for the recent bashing on the PAM . So what my question to you guys are very simple since majority of us cant answer the question posted . why dont we post in P.com and ask them instead . I wasnt asking for a challenge ? why do u have to put salt into my statements ??
And over there, YOU and of course the ristis will answer the questions... my question is why there? What's wrong here?
I am sure your answers are highly revered at your home turf but unfortunately the discussion is here.
If they find it interesting enough, they can come over.
And if you can find a discussion even remotely as interesting, mind provoking, passion inducing thread over at your home turf... feel free to post the link here too... that is if you can find any...
Like I said, when the water subsides, you will know who is swimming naked.
-
i know this is non of my business but enkidu, i hope you will set up a gtg... pavilion is an ideal meeting place.
I have not got a reply from Kenny. But if he is game for a drink, I'll PM you and you can bring along your newly acquired 425 if you trust I won't do anything to it. ;D ;D Not a suitable time to organise a GTG I think, not just after I have been accused of being an attention seeker.
noted... i will change a new strap to match my clothing for that day ;D ;D ;D
i hope i don't sound like attention seeking :Laughing_on_floor: :Laughing_on_floor: :Laughing_on_floor:
-
I'm asking my personal MWF friends not to bother with this thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y)
Not getting paid for this sh**...
:Laughing_on_floor: :Laughing_on_floor: :Laughing_on_floor: :mooning:
Where is getting bashed on the head class?
:HammerHead: :Laughing_on_floor:
-
I'm asking my personal MWF friends not to bother with this thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y)
Not getting paid for this sh**...
:Laughing_on_floor: :Laughing_on_floor: :Laughing_on_floor: :mooning:
Where is getting bashed on the head class?
:HammerHead: :Laughing_on_floor:
Wah .. ST..hahaha :Laughing_on_floor: :Laughing_on_floor:
-
I meant fun NOT fund.
Helloooooooooo...of course we know it's a fun watch. Of course we know Panerai cannot be taken seriously. What do you think I have been saying all these while?? But watch out, your idol Master Hobbit (a.k.a The Supreme Guardian Angel of the House of PAM) may be swooping down on you pretty soon to explain why PAM is considered a fun watch. Don't look at me!! ;D ;D
And Kenny, I am so sorry you got a lemon. Let me see, first it was Felix's PAM, then Sooncheng's PAM, then....., ......, now yours. Hmmmm.....looks like there is a whole orchard of PAM lemons out there, all within the past 2 months. But not really surpirising. Lemon is an essential ingredient in mediterranean cooking.
And thanks for sharing your story. What can I say?? Maybe I'll just say what the ristis always say:
Bro, you just earned my full respect, I salute you!!!
:Cheers: :Cheers: :Dancing_banana: :Dancing_banana: :Dancing_banana:
Dpkong,
What was it that was lacking in this thread?
Woot?? How did I get dragged into this??
-
Right now, MWF is only useful to me because of the merchants section (got a few nice bargains from there thx); here in the discussion threads - not so much. The trolls run wild and are probably friends with the mods.
What? discussion threads not useful for you? Hey, at least you found out how to differentiate a GMT from a Sub and learnt that Subs were not around in 1947. C'mon lah. Be fair to us....
http://www.malaysiawatchforum.com/index.php/topic,7126.0.html
-
:Blue:
Why do the fanboys have to come in here and spoil the discussion about "Panerai Detonators" ?
Do they have internet scanners that pick up every discussion about Panerai and then do a word scan to see if it appears to be "bashing" the brand?
And then without reading or trying to comprehend what the discussion is about, tell us to take our discussion into their forum ? Reminds me of days in primary school where the opponent draws the line and ask the "enemy" to cross it where his buddies are waiting to pounce. I'd always say, you draw the line, you come over.
If you have something useful to add to the discussion, please do so. Otherwise, just close the page and move on to the next discussion. This one isn't about straps.
Hanz. i was just suggesting and no i wasnt asking you guys for a challenge , well if you think i am not welcome here , Please ask danny or the other moderators to ban me from THIS FORUM ok ? i shall write and reply whatever i like .. so what wrong with "i agree " , "well said " ? Do you have a problem with my replies ???
First you ask us to go over to your territory to ask the question, where you and your friends will "answer us" (the purported challenge) and now you say it's not a challenge. Make up your mind. Are you or are you not asking us to post this there? Can you now see where the problem is? And please see the bold highlight as it shows you do enjoy issuing a challenge.
A gentle hint: It would be easier for us to read your replies if you learned how to use the "Quote" function. Inserting your replies randomly makes it difficult to see where your comments are.
I'm asking my personal MWF friends not to bother with this thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y)
Not getting paid for this sh**...
:Laughing_on_floor: :Laughing_on_floor: :Laughing_on_floor: :mooning:
Where is getting bashed on the head class?
:HammerHead: :Laughing_on_floor:
Wow! You must have a lot of influence to decide what your friends can or cannot read. Who knows they might find something interesting in this thread about Panerai history? Or are you like some people in this country who gets to decide who gets to read what? Using foul language here to express yourself is so revealing.
All hail the mighty one...
:mooning:
A drop of heritage...at the rate its going, due to all the streroids and supplements that have been administered since its resuscitation, many (mainly the less informed) will be drowned in its so-called sea of heritage.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
The truth hurts but this comment may be too deep for some to comprehend.
Now let's get back on track and tell me more about Panerai detonators and whatever else Panerai might have been making. The history is beginning to perk my interest. Too bad I'm too far from KL or I would come to Pavillion as well and no, I won't do anything to the watches. On the contrary instead!
-
Maybe i am more simple minded besides being a vigilante like Enkidu said i am.
You sure like to use "aka" alot ;D
As much as i dont like certain brands based on my own uncle sense of style and over 50yrs old i dont wage an all out "war" to diss certain brands.
I just stop buying them or not even buy my first.
This thread however gave me a whole new insight to Panerai in the "side biz" that they did way before. Interesting watch general knowledge.
My England may not be as good as most of you but i just came across this pic on the internetz....
Heeeey its Friday !!!
Bro Enkidu,
Takashi78 is correct. why do you need to attack panerai? why this need? just let it be. after a while people will realise for themselves it's true quality or short of quality. doesnt not pay to be a hero. you only kena hantam and abused.
I bought my first pam abt five years ago. Lots of frens have Pams then. Then I bought second one, in 2009. Will i buy again? No. The quality/price ratio is just too low for my liking. Unfortunately i realised it late, but the positive thing is i did realise it at the end. Once bitten by the bug, people will "fatt san keng". Buy, buy, buy.... after a while "aaaahhh....what have I done??" My point is, people will finally realise. No need for others to say it to them. why take the trouble? you so keen to get attacked by the hard core paneristis?
I am newbie here. But I have followed your earlier postings here. Good taste in watches. I really like your GO navigator and the IWC portuguese HW. From yr postings, i guess you are the same Enkidu in the old seiko citizen watch forum before the change in management few years back? I learned so much from some of your "tutorial" postings in the old scwf. Very useful for a noob like me. Especially about how to replace a lost click-ball in a seiko diver bezel using a rollerball of a 1.0mm ball pen. Interesting! Real genius! so I feel rather sad to see you kena hantam by people who cannot even tell the difference of a rolex sub and a rolex gmt!
Like bro kennypane said, it's a cult this Pam thing. A curse. You cannot do anything to cure it. Let it go!
God bless
- harken
-
I opine that for certain models of Panerai, especially when it comes with sandwich dial, minute markers cannot be had. Why cos design and implementation cannot be rendered. Imagine and look for yourself. Minute markers on the dial can only be had for non-sandwich dial, ie applied markers dial.
Without minute markers is good cos to the wearer it feels more laid-back. Matter of plus minus one minute no life death situation.
U promise u won't hurt me? Sorry weekends are off drinking for me. Next Monday I can be at Pavilion say maybe at La Bodega cos I have a meeting at 4pm nearby. Pls don't bring your gang to hurt one poor Panerai wearing gentleman.
Hey, Kenny, from your posts I think I must be your new-found idol. I remember you wrote you're in KL? PM me for a drink this Saturday. Pavilion is good. And bring along that PAM of yours (promise I won't do anything o it).
-
I like what harkensng said "Fatt san Keng". Laugh my ass off on a Saturday morning. :thumbsup: it just sounds funny. With limited financial resources we cannot buy buy buy. When u do that, it detonates your bank account. Now let's go back to talking seriously about our hobby.
Panerai since I joined as a member a month ago at MWF has been getting a lot of limelight from the Angel and the Devil here. Next person starting a new thread next should come up with something refreshing.
Have u guys met Enkidu before hope to take him to some Italian pasta with an Italian watch on the wrist. Panerai that is.
-
Bro Enkidu,
Takashi78 is correct. why do you need to attack panerai? why this need? just let it be. after a while people will realise for themselves it's true quality or short of quality. doesnt not pay to be a hero. you only kena hantam and abused.
Hero???? What hero????? Where got so serious? You make it sound as though it's something like this.........
IN THE DARKEST HOURS OF WIS-DOM
WHEN ALL THAT IS GOOD AND PURE ARE THREATENED
BY FATAL FALSE PATINA OVERDOSE
BY AMMO LEATHER STRAP STRANGULATION
AND SANDWICH INDIGESTION.........
FROM THE NOBLE MWF
EMERGES....
ENKIDU!!!!!
THE THICK-SKINNED ATTENTION SEEKER....
(http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg574/loochunboon/Hero1.jpg)
(http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg574/loochunboon/hero2.jpg)
(http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg574/loochunboon/hero3.jpg)
All pics clearly not mine...... ;D
-
It is amusing how every discussion for Panerai pans out in a very similiar way. I dont see it as a cult watch. It is more of an enigma. I think that those who love it will always love it whilst those who dont understand it will never understand it. It is just the way the world works. Asking for opinions or having a discussion on a matter is only benificial if you can either accept the opinions given or at least understand the other party's stand and see if it fits to how you think. If there is one thing to take away from this and any other similiar thread is that you cant change what other people think. Lets just keep this forum as a gathering for watch lovers in Malaysia.
-
I'm asking my personal MWF friends not to bother with this thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y)
Not getting paid for this sh**...
:Laughing_on_floor: :Laughing_on_floor: :Laughing_on_floor: :mooning:
Where is getting bashed on the head class?
:HammerHead: :Laughing_on_floor:
Au contraire, mon ami!
I, for one, find this thread very interesting & informative. :)
Afterall, if one can't express his individuality in forums like MWF then what's the point of participating in it? 8)
At the very least, we gain some interesting trivia on our hobbies.
Thank you to the PAM lovers, haters & in-betweeners (I'm one) for making this a most interesting thread. :Cheers:
Take care, Ciao! :thumbsup:
-
To my surprise pam in lime light each time in Mwf
Anyway, I enjoy reading argument between the pro and the oppo of panerai brand
I do wish pam owner or those who can decide his faith read these kind of discussion
Then they can know y ppl hate pam and who r the die hard fans n y they fell in love
As long as no personal attack... Keeps the argument going...
Personally I like pam design... Unique croen guard, Bold and legible!
I don't need the minute marker, hence i love the no minute marker pam, zero is hero!!!
If I need accuracy, I use my reliable iPhone!!!
Rad cushion case is not unique or pam original design
During 30s, many watches have this same shape
I still believe Rolex made this case n watches for pam
Those r history. Relatively pam history it is not so rich when compare to other watch brands! Just marketing whether successful or not...
Rolex nvr bother bout selling history, so they nvr market that way, but is that mean pam hv more history than Rolex?
-
Rolex nvr bother bout selling history, so they nvr market that way, but is that mean pam hv more history than Rolex?
Sure or not?
-
I still believe Rolex made this case n watches for pam
Hmm, are they still doing it nowdays? I mean if u say during the 1940's I will still take it but i think moderns ones are made by panerai themselve edi? No?
-
Rolex nvr bother bout selling history, so they nvr market that way, but is that mean pam hv more history than Rolex?
Rolex sells experience. What I mean is experience where actual watch put to actual use. And a lot of real people experience. Don't need to elaborate further. From climbers, navy pilots, swimmers, actors, singers, cyclists, religious leaders, politicians, generals, guerilla fighters, presidents, mobs, gangsters and these are famous people. Thus a ready association can be made when u wear one. Crap, Rolex does cover the whole world.
-
Bro Enkidu,
Takashi78 is correct. why do you need to attack panerai? why this need? just let it be. after a while people will realise for themselves it's true quality or short of quality. doesnt not pay to be a hero. you only kena hantam and abused.
Hero???? What hero????? Where got so serious? You make it sound as though it's something like this.........
IN THE DARKEST HOURS OF WIS-DOM
WHEN ALL THAT IS GOOD AND PURE ARE THREATENED
BY FATAL FALSE PATINA OVERDOSE
BY AMMO LEATHER STRAP STRANGULATION
AND SANDWICH INDIGESTION.........
FROM THE NOBLE MWF
EMERGES....
ENKIDU!!!!!
THE THICK-SKINNED ATTENTION SEEKER....
(http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg574/loochunboon/Hero1.jpg)
(http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg574/loochunboon/hero2.jpg)
(http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg574/loochunboon/hero3.jpg)
All pics clearly not mine...... ;D
Well, having met you personally, I'd say Picture #3 is much more likely correct...
:Laughing_on_floor:
-
Rolex nvr bother bout selling history, so they nvr market that way, but is that mean pam hv more history than Rolex?
Rolex sells experience. What I mean is experience where actual watch put to actual use. And a lot of real people experience. Don't need to elaborate further. From climbers, navy pilots, swimmers, actors, singers, cyclists, religious leaders, politicians, generals, guerilla fighters, presidents, mobs, gangsters and these are famous people. Thus a ready association can be made when u wear one. Crap, Rolex does cover the whole world.
Did the Explorer 1 really go up to Everest? Did it really "tahan lasak"?
While the Sea Dweller really can go down to fantastic depths, was it strapped on someone's wrist, here someone referring to humans. Practical use comes to mind.
Do the tennis and golf players wear their Rolex while playing?
One is guilty of marketing history (true or otherwise) and the other is marketing desire. The common factor is only marketing. At least we can blame desire on ourselves.
Getting off-topic since we are discussing Panerai detonators actually.
-
I don't think we are going to get any more detail of the detonator. The topic seem to be lost it way early on.
I do have some material but am too fed up and lazy (probably more to the lazy side :P) to dig it out.
I don't fully agree on Panerai is guilty of marketing history. Actually I think they did a bad job of doing it. Most modern panerai wearer don't even know the difference between Radiomir and Luminor. They all thought it is the model name.
The ones that really guilty of history marketing are the passionate collector themselves. You see, only a passionate collector would bother to goes into the details to read on the history of the watch he is buying or own and decide later on what kind of collection he want to assemble. He get excited and share among his friend which in time spread the enthusiasm over to to others. Those who share the passion will chart his own course according to his taste and style. Of course most so call risti don't exactly follow this route.
Sometimes risti just buy what is hot, pay higher than retail and regret. The conservatives ones will seek better value in the used market. Sometimes the watch fetch higher price in the used market and it makes the owner feel good. Some got good at it and turn it into a side business. Not something I would do but who am I to judge. ;D
In the end it's all the same with other brand. Just that the panerai community give themselves a name, Risti and maybe have more frequent GTG and a little too public about their opnion. Sometimes too public for their own good. I am not particularly fond of this kind of conduct and neither do I criticize, condemn or complain about it.
I believe meaningful conversation can only be achieve thru sincerity. Some of you might hold certain opinion on these Risti folks but most of them are my friend and I'm quite close with a few of them. To be honest I don't really like some of their choice of watch. That doesn't mean I should go trash talk their watch and make them feel bad. I just don't see the purpose and failed to understand why anyone would do that.
On a second thought maybe I should dig up the material about the detonator ...
Regards
Tyler
-
I don't think we are going to get any more detail of the detonator. The topic seem to be lost it way early on.
I do have some material but am too fed up and lazy (probably more to the lazy side :P) to dig it out.
I don't fully agree on Panerai is guilty of marketing history. Actually I think they did a bad job of doing it. Most modern panerai wearer don't even know the difference between Radiomir and Luminor. They all thought it is the model name.
The ones that really guilty of history marketing are the passionate collector themselves. You see, only a passionate collector would bother to goes into the details to read on the history of the watch he is buying or own and decide later on what kind of collection he want to assemble. He get excited and share among his friend which in time spread the enthusiasm over to to others. Those who share the passion will chart his own course according to his taste and style. Of course most so call risti don't exactly follow this route.
Sometimes risti just buy what is hot, pay higher than retail and regret. The conservatives ones will seek better value in the used market. Sometimes the watch fetch higher price in the used market and it makes the owner feel good. Some got good at it and turn it into a side business. Not something I would do but who am I to judge. ;D
In the end it's all the same with other brand. Just that the panerai community give themselves a name, Risti and maybe have more frequent GTG and a little too public about their opnion. Sometimes too public for their own good. I am not particularly fond of this kind of conduct and neither do I criticize, condemn or complain about it.
I believe meaningful conversation can only be achieve thru sincerity. Some of you might hold certain opinion on these Risti folks but most of them are my friend and I'm quite close with a few of them. To be honest I don't really like some of their choice of watch. That doesn't mean I should go trash talk their watch and make them feel bad. I just don't see the purpose and failed to understand why anyone would do that.
On a second thought maybe I should dig up the material about the detonator ...
Regards
Tyler
Tyler,
Please do dig up the material on the detonator...
Thank you.
-
I second the plea for Tyler to dig up more details on the detonator. Should be an interesting read.
-
I second the plea for Tyler to dig up more details on the detonator. Should be an interesting read.
I am keen on reading something interesting to waste my time. Please put the link up man :thumbsup:
-
I second the plea for Tyler to dig up more details on the detonator. Should be an interesting read.
I am keen on reading something interesting to waste my time. Please put the link up man :thumbsup:
I'm not a risti nor a WIS, but I'd love to read what you've got.
Thanks in advance, Tyler.
Take care, Ciao! :thumbsup: