Post by: jason_recliner on April 14, 2015, 02:23:00 AM
That was 4 1/2 years ago and I have enjoyed it, it's been a great watch, it's Rolex at the top of their game. Which, unfortunately, was MANY years ago. In a way it is the ultimate dive watch, having been developed during an era when watches were instruments, not luxury jewellery, and was worn on the deepest ever dive.
But now I'm bored of it. It's just a steel watch, I've owned much better watches for a fraction of the price, I'm thankfully now immune to the Rolex marketing juggernaut. It was fun, but I'm really looking forward to having the cash!
All of Rolex's innovations in the last two decades have been in marketing or business management. They benefit Rolex greatly but the consumer nil, apart from telling people who notice that you can afford to strap a used car to your wrist. That's not me - I'm just an ordinary guy who likes watches!
So long, Rolex!
Post by: nikfs1881 on April 14, 2015, 03:03:02 AM
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Post by: jason_recliner on April 14, 2015, 03:09:22 AM
I still feel that many aspects of the watch are quantifiable. I can see that high end Seiko had better brushing and polishing and machining than Rolex, much more manual labor, for much less $$$. Omega is pretty much the same thing as Rolex - mass produced high quality Swiss watch - for 1/2 to 2/3 the price. So I can actually see some value there, even in the context of overpriced luxury goods.
Each to their own, just sharing my experience. And glad no more of my money will be going to them!
Ps - Rolex fans git me up for a good deal on a 16600!
Post by: r3kahsttub on April 14, 2015, 02:07:00 PM
Post by: Friedrice on April 14, 2015, 02:45:30 PM
I bought my first Rolex in the early 2000's when submariners were sold for RM12k retail. At that time they were expensive but still affordable.
Bought 3 Rolexes over the years and sold two for a nice profit (both were sports models). Kept the unwanted DJ
Flipped a Patek Philippe 5035YG before the prices became stupid. During the early part of 2000, PP's can be had for up to 40% discount in a shop in the old starhill among other places. Prices then were more reasonable as a 5035 retailed for RM40+k (before discounts). I bought it and resold it a few years later for a decent profit. The servicing cost scared me silly so I had to flip it before it is in need of servicing.
Also bought and flipped a Pam but I took a slight hit. So, I am guessing, watch prices, which have been increasing steadily over the last decade have now plateau.
I am buying up Omega's for a good part of the last 8 years but I am not seeing much ROI as I am used to. So, now, I am just basically buying what I like and no longer going after the next hot brand.
My two cents.
Post by: hanz079 on April 14, 2015, 03:23:53 PM
BMW?
Post by: Narco on April 14, 2015, 03:25:18 PM
Post by: Friedrice on April 14, 2015, 03:32:40 PM
I tot u got ur Patek 5035Y from your friend that chucks the watches in the glove compartment of his
BMW?
Oh that. I had a seller's remorse moment and wanted to buy back a 5035. But it didn't materialize as I was short of money at that time. I lost contact with him over the years.
Post by: Friedrice on April 14, 2015, 03:37:52 PM
Thats one honest story. I like. It makes 'poor' people like me feel proud not owning one despite the fact that i cant afford one.
Owning a nice watch is nice for a few weeks. But after awhile, buyer's remorse will set in and you will be asking yourself why the heck did you spend X amount on a watch when that money can be place into a ASB account, which earns a high rate of return even though the amount is capped. or the money can be placed in a didik account for your kids.
Post by: sidestreaker on April 14, 2015, 03:43:46 PM
As a dive watch fan who grew up reading National Geographic, I always wanted a Sub, Sea-Dweller, or GMT when I was a kid. When I started to REALLY get into watches, I learnt that they are more of a status symbol than a typical watch. The prices were crazy, but I still wanted one. On my honeymoon I was lucky enough to land THE sports Rolex, a 16600.
That was 4 1/2 years ago and I have enjoyed it, it's been a great watch, it's Rolex at the top of their game. Which, unfortunately, was MANY years ago. In a way it is the ultimate dive watch, having been developed during an era when watches were instruments, not luxury jewellery, and was worn on the deepest ever dive.
But now I'm bored of it. It's just a steel watch, I've owned much better watches for a fraction of the price, I'm thankfully now immune to the Rolex marketing juggernaut. It was fun, but I'm really looking forward to having the cash!
All of Rolex's innovations in the last two decades have been in marketing or business management. They benefit Rolex greatly but the consumer nil, apart from telling people who notice that you can afford to strap a used car to your wrist. That's not me - I'm just an ordinary guy who likes watches!
So long, Rolex!
Well, it is better to realize it sooner than later, I guess. The bright side is that you're crystal clear and able to see through the shroud and go for what you really like or need.
I wish I can say the same thing. On the one hand, I'm leaning towards fair value and quality watches like Seiko, but on the other hand, I'm still enticed with some marketing materials of a watchmaker like heritage, and owning a piece of a company that makes unnecessary complications.
I admit that I do have that shallow sense of pride of owning a well recognized brand to be seen. I do not know how long that sense of novelty will last, but it is a path which I'm carefully threading to avoid regrets later.
Post by: hanz079 on April 14, 2015, 03:48:39 PM
I tot u got ur Patek 5035Y from your friend that chucks the watches in the glove compartment of his
BMW?
Oh that. I had a seller's remorse moment and wanted to buy back a 5035. But it didn't materialize as I was short of money at that time. I lost contact with him over the years.
After selling a PP 5035Y because the "servicing cost scared you silly"... You seriously considered buying back the same watch from a friend that just chucks em in his glove compartment? I am no pro but that does scream "service me please!!"
Not to mention about your plan of putting the purchase of the pp on hold becuase your wife just got herself Mercedes...
I do wonder your PP journey to be honest.
Post by: Friedrice on April 14, 2015, 04:46:03 PM
I tot u got ur Patek 5035Y from your friend that chucks the watches in the glove compartment of his
BMW?
Oh that. I had a seller's remorse moment and wanted to buy back a 5035. But it didn't materialize as I was short of money at that time. I lost contact with him over the years.
After selling a PP 5035Y because the "servicing cost scared you silly"... You seriously considered buying back the same watch from a friend that just chucks em in his glove compartment? I am no pro but that does scream "service me please!!"
Not to mention about your plan of putting the purchase of the pp on hold becuase your wife just got herself Mercedes...
I do wonder your PP journey to be honest.
Hey it's cool. If you think I am not telling the truth, it's all good. Everyone have the right to their own opinions. Especially something as subjective as this.
I have no proof that i owned a 5035 in the past as the watch was bought and sold before I started taking pictures of my collection. You just have to take my word for it. But if a forum moderator, thinks that I am lying, so be it. I am not going to argue with a forum moderator and getting myself into trouble.
Post by: nikfs1881 on April 14, 2015, 05:11:03 PM
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Post by: nikfs1881 on April 14, 2015, 05:18:11 PM
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Post by: Friedrice on April 14, 2015, 06:41:39 PM
Chill bro! He was just pulling your leg.... I have seen you get agitated quite frequently over these past few days..... Let's talk bout watch and enjoy the sheer pleasure of owning good watches..... chill out!
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My apologies if I seem agitated these past few days. I didn't even realise it myself.
Many thanks for pointing it out to me. :Cheers:
And, one should not feel offended especially coming from someone that always say 'picture or it didnt happen'....dont get me wrong i think the statement is perfectly fine as part of camaraderie between WIS
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Yup. Agree. Thanks for the advice. :)
Post by: nikfs1881 on April 14, 2015, 07:25:52 PM
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Post by: G.MAC on April 14, 2015, 07:31:17 PM
Post by: CKL1213 on April 14, 2015, 08:33:24 PM
Post by: Friedrice on April 14, 2015, 08:39:28 PM
I need a watch but I want a Rolex
Go for it. It's a good brand. :thumbsup:
Post by: axaxax on April 14, 2015, 10:07:19 PM
Never the less, when buying for a watch, i would always seek out certain characteristic of the watch/brand which i am aligned with. And in Rolex, I identify Rolex not for its brand, nor the watch itself but the company's relentless pursuit to improve their products. A populor term "Kaizen" or in english means "continues improvement" and not trying to seek that major innovation nor the silver bullet (neither should one forego any opportunity if one arises), i love the fact that the company have/is improved/improving in each iteration. These track record is not built over night but over many many years resisting critics (not completely true as seen in their decision to discontinue sea dweller replaced by deep sea and relaunching it after several years) whom calls em dull, lack of creativity, dime in a dozen etc etc.
No doubt some people flock to a certain brand to show prestige or wealth, strapping on a Rolex every morning reminds me to constantly seek the "Kaizen" in life.
Post by: jason_recliner on April 14, 2015, 10:24:22 PM
For kaizen I look, unsurprisingly, to the Japanese. The most accurate watches in the world... Watches that resist shock... Dive watches that measure and record depth... Watches with 48 timezones and 5 alarms... Watches that monitor heart rate... Watches with GPS... To me that is real improvement, real innovation. The result of application and hard work. Constant improvement. Kai zen.
In the time that Citizen did all that, Rolex maybe introduced sapphire and a new hairspring compound. I would like to see the increase in size of Rolex's marketing department and budget over this same period.
Rolex have been extremely innovative in their business processes, and this is true kai zen but, as I alluded to above, this benefits Rolex rather than me.
Just a personal opinion owning one after going thru afew watches. Dropping a sum of money sometimes made me feel guilty as one of you correctly pointed out that its a piece that you dont need but more of a want. Money spend could have helped a poor kid thru college for example!
Never the less, when buying for a watch, i would always seek out certain characteristic of the watch/brand which i am aligned with. And in Rolex, I identify Rolex not for its brand, nor the watch itself but the company's relentless pursuit to improve their products. A populor term "Kaizen" or in english means "continues improvement" and not trying to seek that major innovation nor the silver bullet (neither should one forego any opportunity if one arises), i love the fact that the company have/is improved/improving in each iteration. These track record is not built over night but over many many years resisting critics (not completely true as seen in their decision to discontinue sea dweller replaced by deep sea and relaunching it after several years) whom calls em dull, lack of creativity, dime in a dozen etc etc.
No doubt some people flock to a certain brand to show prestige or wealth, strapping on a Rolex every morning reminds me to constantly seek the "Kaizen" in life.
Post by: axaxax on April 14, 2015, 11:17:19 PM
Personally, when Seiko Astron was launched, i thought to myself that this can potentially be a be-all, end-all watch. But! a Seiko Astron would not be able to spark that enjoyment i feel when strapping up in the morning neither the pleasure of winding my watch every morning.
What you have pointed out are indeed opinion that holds up and appeals to utilitarian and I understand where you are coming from. Sometimes one gets tired in such pursuit and decide to get out as one only see madness around (in this case, Rolex). Before things get too heated up, to each his own. I hope to read more stories of your horological pilgrimage.
Post by: nikfs1881 on April 15, 2015, 12:12:11 AM
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Post by: jason_recliner on April 15, 2015, 12:29:48 AM
"While kaizen (at Toyota) usually delivers small improvements, the culture of continual aligned small improvements and standardization yields large results in terms of overall improvement in productivity. "
Hence, by applying kai zen one would expect relatively rapid increase in productivity, quality, and evolution of product design.
Post by: nikfs1881 on April 15, 2015, 12:47:35 AM
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Post by: nikfs1881 on April 15, 2015, 12:50:37 AM
Kai zen is continuous improvement, but not of the same process or product. From Wikipedia:btw for what it's worth, on second thought after a careful read particularly on the last para, the wikipedia quote still doesnt support your conclusion: rapid increase productivity = rapid improvement in processes; and 'evolution' of product design (not revolution)=sounds familiar?
"While kaizen (at Toyota) usually delivers small improvements, the culture of continual aligned small improvements and standardization yields large results in terms of overall improvement in productivity. "
Hence, by applying kai zen one would expect relatively rapid increase in productivity, quality, and evolution of product design.
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Post by: jason_recliner on April 15, 2015, 12:55:40 AM
I hope to read more stories of your horological pilgrimage.
To be honest I think I'm pretty much done, my journey is over, but we'll see. I've got my one true horological love:
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z389/jason_recliner1/Seiko%2045-7000/DSC_0082sml_zps8e511252.jpg) (http://s1187.photobucket.com/user/jason_recliner1/media/Seiko%2045-7000/DSC_0082sml_zps8e511252.jpg.html)
This, for me, is the best watch yet because it does everything I need, looks good doing it, and NEVER let's me down (I don't wear a suit to work):
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z389/jason_recliner1/Casio%20GS-1050%20G-Shock%20Giez/DSC_0018_zps6fd98b39.jpg) (http://s1187.photobucket.com/user/jason_recliner1/media/Casio%20GS-1050%20G-Shock%20Giez/DSC_0018_zps6fd98b39.jpg.html)
I really like the Glycine 7750 I picked up the other day because it is something different to my usual collection, but I can't see myself getting another:
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z389/jason_recliner1/Glycine%20Ningaloo/IMAG3322_1_zps7zivp6ij.jpg) (http://s1187.photobucket.com/user/jason_recliner1/media/Glycine%20Ningaloo/IMAG3322_1_zps7zivp6ij.jpg.html)
And that's about all I have left now. Everything else has been sold or is for sale. Maybe I'll keep one of my Sumos. Or maybe I am done!
Post by: jason_recliner on April 15, 2015, 12:59:23 AM
I saw that coming....thanks for the mba 101 lesson...... In watch context, that sounds like an iWatch or a superquartz to me.....
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Which is pretty much where we are at today. The system works!
:thumbsup:
Post by: nikfs1881 on April 15, 2015, 01:02:16 AM
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Post by: jason_recliner on April 15, 2015, 01:04:50 AM
Kai zen is continuous improvement, but not of the same process or product. From Wikipedia:btw for what it's worth, on second thought after a careful read particularly on the last para, the wikipedia quote still doesnt support your conclusion: rapid increase productivity = rapid improvement in processes; and 'evolution' of product design (not revolution)=sounds familiar?
"While kaizen (at Toyota) usually delivers small improvements, the culture of continual aligned small improvements and standardization yields large results in terms of overall improvement in productivity. "
Hence, by applying kai zen one would expect relatively rapid increase in productivity, quality, and evolution of product design.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Definitely sounds familiar. There are very few revolutionary products, things tend to evolve over time. But with the benefit of 30 years of evolution you get from a simple mechanical dive watch to an Aqualand. Comparing the first product to the last, the Aqualand would appear revolutionary, but we all know how many baby steps were required to get there.
Post by: jason_recliner on April 15, 2015, 01:11:00 AM
Indeed, if you say so.....that's what makes us human....diversity....appeal and taste varies....and, if that makes you happy and what you are fond of....i respect and admire that....btw, nice collection u have there....i love the glycine....would love to buy one, one day!
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Thanks! I think I'm happy with it. For now! Actually I don't really care as much as I used to. I had my first child recently, watches don't seem to matter nearly as much now! As long as I know what day it is and when he last had a feed...
:Laughing_on_floor:
Post by: kenji1903 on April 15, 2015, 05:47:03 AM
sounds you had your Rolex at quite a young age and love your KS :thumbsup:Indeed, if you say so.....that's what makes us human....diversity....appeal and taste varies....and, if that makes you happy and what you are fond of....i respect and admire that....btw, nice collection u have there....i love the glycine....would love to buy one, one day!
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Thanks! I think I'm happy with it. For now! Actually I don't really care as much as I used to. I had my first child recently, watches don't seem to matter nearly as much now! As long as I know what day it is and when he last had a feed...
:Laughing_on_floor:
Congratz and welcome to fatherhood, i'm at 4 months and i some times still loose count of his last feed :Laughing_on_floor:
Post by: jason_recliner on April 15, 2015, 06:12:36 AM
:Startled:
Post by: pexus on April 15, 2015, 10:59:38 AM
A brand that has thousands of wrist shots , postings, comments, reviews out there .....giving me the opportunity to educate myself before commiting to a particular purchase ....
A brand that is equipped with a robust, easy to service movement and some degree of luxury and history....an almost perfect daily beater (ok ok..weekly beater since i do rotate... ;D)
And after years of abuse, if necessary, I can still sell it at a reasonable price ...
So...at the risk of being called a fan boy....yeah..rolex suits a kiasu/kiasi character like me.... ;D ;D
apa lagi saya mahu? ;D ;D
Post by: Friedrice on April 15, 2015, 01:03:41 PM
I hope to read more stories of your horological pilgrimage.
To be honest I think I'm pretty much done, my journey is over, but we'll see. I've got my one true horological love:
This, for me, is the best watch yet because it does everything I need, looks good doing it, and NEVER let's me down (I don't wear a suit to work):
I really like the Glycine 7750 I picked up the other day because it is something different to my usual collection, but I can't see myself getting another:
And that's about all I have left now. Everything else has been sold or is for sale. Maybe I'll keep one of my Sumos. Or maybe I am done!
I like your Seiko Hi-Beat. What year is it from?
Post by: jason_recliner on April 15, 2015, 02:17:20 PM
I like your Seiko Hi-Beat. What year is it from?
Thanks mate!
It's from July 1969 and is the nicest I've seen. Pretty much every other one you'll come across has been over-polished to buggery. The case edges should actually look sharp, like this:
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z389/jason_recliner1/Seiko%2045-7000/867386a8-3110-4adf-82d1-19b043c95737_zpslxh8jreu.jpg) (http://s1187.photobucket.com/user/jason_recliner1/media/Seiko%2045-7000/867386a8-3110-4adf-82d1-19b043c95737_zpslxh8jreu.jpg.html)
It's abso-freaking-lutely stunning, IMO - Seiko really haven't topped it to this day, so they just re-released it instead!. I can't get enough of the perfect case, dial and hand proportions, and the super-smooth sweep of the impossibly thin seconds hand.
Unmolested, 100% original - to me this is what watch collecting is all about. When it was released it was one of the finest watches in the world but some 40 years later it barely registered a blip on anybody's Ebay radar. You had to really know watches to appreciate what it is, and therefore it was almost embarrassingly cheap at the time. Since then prices have gone right up yet it still represents amazing value for a high end vintage watch.
If only it was a complete set...
Post by: Nobby on April 15, 2015, 02:37:20 PM
Nobody, who's fortunate enough to afford one, should be without a Rolex in their collection. They are the fish and chips of the watch lovers world...there's better, but sometimes that's all you want.
Seiko, Grand or not....No thanks.
Nobby 8)
Post by: sidestreaker on April 15, 2015, 02:46:35 PM
I like your Seiko Hi-Beat. What year is it from?
Thanks mate!
It's from July 1969 and is the nicest I've seen. Pretty much every other one you'll come across has been over-polished to buggery. The case edges should actually look sharp, like this:
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z389/jason_recliner1/Seiko%2045-7000/867386a8-3110-4adf-82d1-19b043c95737_zpslxh8jreu.jpg) (http://s1187.photobucket.com/user/jason_recliner1/media/Seiko%2045-7000/867386a8-3110-4adf-82d1-19b043c95737_zpslxh8jreu.jpg.html)
It's abso-freaking-lutely stunning, IMO - Seiko really haven't topped it to this day, so they just re-released it instead!. I can't get enough of the perfect case, dial and hand proportions, and the super-smooth sweep of the impossibly thin seconds hand.
Unmolested, 100% original - to me this is what watch collecting is all about. When it was released it was one of the finest watches in the world but some 40 years later it barely registered a blip on anybody's Ebay radar. You had to really know watches to appreciate what it is, and therefore it was almost embarrassingly cheap at the time. Since then prices have gone right up yet it still represents amazing value for a high end vintage watch.
If only it was a complete set...
Awesome! Thanks for sharing!
Post by: jason_recliner on April 15, 2015, 04:10:29 PM
Don't talk to me about Seiko :P
Nobody, who's fortunate enough to afford one, should be without a Rolex in their collection. They are the fish and chips of the watch lovers world...there's better, but sometimes that's all you want.
Seiko, Grand or not....No thanks.
Nobby 8)
Yes, sure, but you don't actually know much about watches. And this is a watch forum. Pay attention and you might learn something!
:mooning:
Post by: TheHobbit on April 15, 2015, 04:12:50 PM
Post by: kenji1903 on April 15, 2015, 04:23:08 PM
I actually dreamt I fed him the other night. It wasn't until my wife noticed that nothing had been touched that we realised he hadn't actually been fed!many more night ahead, good luck bro ;D
:Startled:
and Nobby had a horrible experience with his GS, thus the negativity towards Seiko, forgot which thread...
Post by: jason_recliner on April 15, 2015, 05:30:30 PM
I actually dreamt I fed him the other night. It wasn't until my wife noticed that nothing had been touched that we realised he hadn't actually been fed!many more night ahead, good luck bro ;D
:Startled:
and Nobby had a horrible experience with his GS, thus the negativity towards Seiko, forgot which thread...
Is he the guy who worked out GS isn't a good ship yard watch? I wouldn't normally care too much but it is pretty poor form crapping in my thread about a watch that obviously means a lot to me. It would be different if it was a thread asking whether I should buy a GS.
Regardless, the guy doesn't know much about watches.
Post by: sidestreaker on April 15, 2015, 06:01:25 PM
On to more important matters, could you tell us a bit more about the KS? How did you come across it and how does it perform so far, service and user's experience?
The more I look at it the more I like it!
Post by: axaxax on April 15, 2015, 06:26:37 PM
Interesting enough, if you care to skim thru Jason's posting since he joined the forum, you were able to see the evolution of his thought flow. During the beginning, he posted several pic of his Rolex Sub, then came the Omega before switching to Seiko. Some of his more impressionable posting include how people praised his Seiko watch rather than his Omega & Rolex, and if you notice, he does have an active lifestyle (gardening & biking which falls under Seiko' target market). Not to mention with his newborn baby, focus and aspirations naturally be shifted.
We can't discount if one day, Jason would change his mind years down the road. Only time will tell.
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Post by: kenji1903 on April 15, 2015, 09:37:32 PM
i think that's the one ;DI actually dreamt I fed him the other night. It wasn't until my wife noticed that nothing had been touched that we realised he hadn't actually been fed!many more night ahead, good luck bro ;D
:Startled:
and Nobby had a horrible experience with his GS, thus the negativity towards Seiko, forgot which thread...
Is he the guy who worked out GS isn't a good ship yard watch? I wouldn't normally care too much but it is pretty poor form crapping in my thread about a watch that obviously means a lot to me. It would be different if it was a thread asking whether I should buy a GS.
Regardless, the guy doesn't know much about watches.
i'm interested in the KS too by the way, similar questions with sir sidestreaker
Post by: Nobby on April 16, 2015, 07:10:02 AM
Jason - Calm yourself down sunshine. It's your ball and you don't want to play anymore, that's fine, no worries.I actually dreamt I fed him the other night. It wasn't until my wife noticed that nothing had been touched that we realised he hadn't actually been fed!many more night ahead, good luck bro ;D
:Startled:
and Nobby had a horrible experience with his GS, thus the negativity towards Seiko, forgot which thread...
Is he the guy who worked out GS isn't a good ship yard watch? I wouldn't normally care too much but it is pretty poor form crapping in my thread about a watch that obviously means a lot to me. It would be different if it was a thread asking whether I should buy a GS.
Regardless, the guy doesn't know much about watches.
For the record: You were summarizing your ownership experiences with both Rolex and Seiko...and so was I.
Chill ::)
Nobby
Post by: jason_recliner on April 16, 2015, 09:22:20 AM
Jason - Calm yourself down sunshine. It's your ball and you don't want to play anymore, that's fine, no worries.I actually dreamt I fed him the other night. It wasn't until my wife noticed that nothing had been touched that we realised he hadn't actually been fed!many more night ahead, good luck bro ;D
:Startled:
and Nobby had a horrible experience with his GS, thus the negativity towards Seiko, forgot which thread...
Is he the guy who worked out GS isn't a good ship yard watch? I wouldn't normally care too much but it is pretty poor form crapping in my thread about a watch that obviously means a lot to me. It would be different if it was a thread asking whether I should buy a GS.
Regardless, the guy doesn't know much about watches.
For the record: You were summarizing your ownership experiences with both Rolex and Seiko...and so was I.
Chill ::)
Nobby
So start your own damn thread. As I said, it's extremely poor form to crap in somebody's thread celebrating a watch they love.
I'm no fan of Hublot, for example. If somebody is asking whether to get a Hublot or Rolex, I'll recommend the Rolex and explain why. If somebody is posting about the Hublot they just bought and love, I'm not going to jump in and tell them why they should have bought a Rolex. Because I'm not a dickhead. Do you see the difference?
Here's a thought. Just don't post in any of my threads. You have literally nothing to add that I couldn't hear from the local dopey Rolex salesperson.
Chilled enough for you, brah?
8)
Erm... Now all THAT is out of the way... (apologies to the more gentlemanly members!)
For Sir Sidestreaker and Sir Kenji, without boring the entire forum to death with the excruciating minutiae of high end vintage Seiko and the Swiss Chronometre competitions... Back in the day Seiko had two Japanese factories, Suwa and Daini. They were effectively competing with each other, as well as competing with the Swiss to build the most accurate watches on the world and also for the right to print Chronometre on the dial. One part of the story is that Seiko won, the Swiss declared that only a Swiss watch could be classified a Chronometre, Seiko devised their own internal and more stringent accuracy specs, and that is why very few Seikos are labeled Chronometre. But that's another story!
Meanwhile, Suwa and Daini were trying to outdo each other. Daini devised Grand Seiko so Suwa came up with King Seiko. Both, naturally, were superb. At some point, however, Seiko put an end to this internal rivalry and ran with Grand Seiko only.
Everybody knows of Grand Seiko now but KS has been forgotten by most and flown under the radar. It's really only been in the last few years that more collectors have become aware of the GS/KS relationship.
I picked mine up on the Bay years ago for cheap. I think it was cheap because not many people wanted a KS, and this one is not highly polished. Which is why I love it. Most of the examples you see these days have been polished to a near mirror finish to emulate modern GS at the expense of all those sharp angles and edges. That would be the first thing to watch out for if one was to hunt one down.
The movement is a peach. A relatively simple manual winder running at 36,000 bph. Easy to service but getting parts is tricky. Simply decorated but beautifully finished.
Oh, one more thing. This baby's got back:
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z389/jason_recliner1/Seiko%2045-7000/DSC_2521.jpg) (http://s1187.photobucket.com/user/jason_recliner1/media/Seiko%2045-7000/DSC_2521.jpg.html)
That gold medallion makes me warm and gooey (make sure it's in good condition if you're buying. Gold is soft and they tend to wear down noticeably).
If you made it this far thanks for reading!
Post by: deriku on April 16, 2015, 11:14:05 AM
Post by: jason_recliner on April 16, 2015, 11:25:53 AM
Were the case back engravings added by previous owner? Seems to be celebrating 25th year anniversary of a company. How cool if you knew the story behind. Also never expected a watch from the 60s to look so great.
My Japanese friend translated the characters for me. This watch was a gift to an employee to celebrate 25 years of service. I can't remember the exact company but it was something really mundane, like a stapler supplier or something. I find it funny because now, so many years later, the kanji looks so exotic to a gwei lo like me, no matter what it says!
Post by: sidestreaker on April 16, 2015, 12:15:56 PM
Were the case back engravings added by previous owner? Seems to be celebrating 25th year anniversary of a company. How cool if you knew the story behind. Also never expected a watch from the 60s to look so great.
My Japanese friend translated the characters for me. This watch was a gift to an employee to celebrate 25 years of service. I can't remember the exact company but it was something really mundane, like a stapler supplier or something. I find it funny because now, so many years later, the kanji looks so exotic to a gwei lo like me, no matter what it says!
Well, thank heavens it was not in shipyard, otherwise, you won't not have much of a watch left.
Great condition for its age and a fine specimen at that too. Well done!
You mentioned that servicing is easy but parts are hard to attain. Do you send to back to Seiko for service or just a professional watch maker locally?
Post by: kenji1903 on April 16, 2015, 12:30:50 PM
did you replace any parts?
Post by: jason_recliner on April 16, 2015, 01:28:14 PM
(http://nakahiro.parfait.ne.jp/image/image11/45kikai.jpeg)
So pretty!
:Dancing_banana:
I was just lucky no parts needed replacing. Seiko almost definitely won't have spares for these. If I ever need a part I will most likely have to buy another watch and sacrifice for parts. Fortunately they are quite common, I'll just buy one which is rough cosmetically and therefore cheap.
Post by: Friedrice on April 16, 2015, 08:36:19 PM
Mine is 100% original. I have my own watch business, Collectible Watches Australia - shameless plug! - so I can service it myself. As I said, it's a simple movement, you just have to be meticulous with the lubrication due to the high beat rate. Here's the movement (not mine):
(http://nakahiro.parfait.ne.jp/image/image11/45kikai.jpeg)
So pretty!
:Dancing_banana:
I was just lucky no parts needed replacing. Seiko almost definitely won't have spares for these. If I ever need a part I will most likely have to buy another watch and sacrifice for parts. Fortunately they are quite common, I'll just buy one which is rough cosmetically and therefore cheap.
Wow! That is a real beauty! It's really rare to find a 30+ year old watch in that condition..
It's almost NOS condition..
Post by: Nobby on April 17, 2015, 05:08:42 AM
Jason - Calm yourself down sunshine. It's your ball and you don't want to play anymore, that's fine, no worries.I actually dreamt I fed him the other night. It wasn't until my wife noticed that nothing had been touched that we realised he hadn't actually been fed!many more night ahead, good luck bro ;D
:Startled:
Wind your neck in, Jason.
Nobby
and Nobby had a horrible experience with his GS, thus the negativity towards Seiko, forgot which thread...
Is he the guy who worked out GS isn't a good ship yard watch? I wouldn't normally care too much but it is pretty poor form crapping in my thread about a watch that obviously means a lot to me. It would be different if it was a thread asking whether I should buy a GS.
Regardless, the guy doesn't know much about watches.
For the record: You were summarizing your ownership experiences with both Rolex and Seiko...and so was I.
Chill ::)
Nobby
So start your own damn thread. As I said, it's extremely poor form to crap in somebody's thread celebrating a watch they love.
I'm no fan of Hublot, for example. If somebody is asking whether to get a Hublot or Rolex, I'll recommend the Rolex and explain why. If somebody is posting about the Hublot they just bought and love, I'm not going to jump in and tell them why they should have bought a Rolex. Because I'm not a dickhead. Do you see the difference?
Here's a thought. Just don't post in any of my threads. You have literally nothing to add that I couldn't hear from the local dopey Rolex salesperson.
Chilled enough for you, brah?
8)
Erm... Now all THAT is out of the way... (apologies to the more gentlemanly members!)
For Sir Sidestreaker and Sir Kenji, without boring the entire forum to death with the excruciating minutiae of high end vintage Seiko and the Swiss Chronometre competitions... Back in the day Seiko had two Japanese factories, Suwa and Daini. They were effectively competing with each other, as well as competing with the Swiss to build the most accurate watches on the world and also for the right to print Chronometre on the dial. One part of the story is that Seiko won, the Swiss declared that only a Swiss watch could be classified a Chronometre, Seiko devised their own internal and more stringent accuracy specs, and that is why very few Seikos are labeled Chronometre. But that's another story!
Meanwhile, Suwa and Daini were trying to outdo each other. Daini devised Grand Seiko so Suwa came up with King Seiko. Both, naturally, were superb. At some point, however, Seiko put an end to this internal rivalry and ran with Grand Seiko only.
Everybody knows of Grand Seiko now but KS has been forgotten by most and flown under the radar. It's really only been in the last few years that more collectors have become aware of the GS/KS relationship.
I picked mine up on the Bay years ago for cheap. I think it was cheap because not many people wanted a KS, and this one is not highly polished. Which is why I love it. Most of the examples you see these days have been polished to a near mirror finish to emulate modern GS at the expense of all those sharp angles and edges. That would be the first thing to watch out for if one was to hunt one down.
The movement is a peach. A relatively simple manual winder running at 36,000 bph. Easy to service but getting parts is tricky. Simply decorated but beautifully finished.
Oh, one more thing. This baby's got back:
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z389/jason_recliner1/Seiko%2045-7000/DSC_2521.jpg) (http://s1187.photobucket.com/user/jason_recliner1/media/Seiko%2045-7000/DSC_2521.jpg.html)
That gold medallion makes me warm and gooey (make sure it's in good condition if you're buying. Gold is soft and they tend to wear down noticeably).
If you made it this far thanks for reading!
Post by: dpkong on April 20, 2015, 11:37:18 PM
We don't need a watch. And if we have to deliberate between buying a Rolex or putting the money elsewhere for better returns, then maybe just skip the thought of owning one.
Cheers!
Post by: dpkong on April 20, 2015, 11:41:52 PM
I always believe in buying a brand before it become famous.
I bought my first Rolex in the early 2000's when submariners were sold for RM12k retail. At that time they were expensive but still affordable.
Bought 3 Rolexes over the years and sold two for a nice profit (both were sports models). Kept the unwanted DJ
Flipped a Patek Philippe 5035YG before the prices became stupid. During the early part of 2000, PP's can be had for up to 40% discount in a shop in the old starhill among other places. Prices then were more reasonable as a 5035 retailed for RM40+k (before discounts). I bought it and resold it a few years later for a decent profit. The servicing cost scared me silly so I had to flip it before it is in need of servicing.
Also bought and flipped a Pam but I took a slight hit. So, I am guessing, watch prices, which have been increasing steadily over the last decade have now plateau.
I am buying up Omega's for a good part of the last 8 years but I am not seeing much ROI as I am used to. So, now, I am just basically buying what I like and no longer going after the next hot brand.
My two cents.
Affordable is relative to income.
Post by: jason_recliner on April 21, 2015, 01:28:11 AM
Hungry babies will scream so that's all the indication you need for feeding time.
If a baby screams in the forest but nobody hears it, is it actually hungry?
(http://ideas.sisler.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/zen-baby.jpg)
Post by: gnoy26 on April 23, 2015, 01:26:34 PM
Post by: cll on April 25, 2015, 12:23:59 PM
I have gotten in the Rolex fray lately.
I like the brand cause of its history, reputation and quality.
I got the Explorer 39mm as my first Rolex and one day I was lying with my son, I showed him the watch and told him that one day it will be his. His eyes opened up in delight and you can see the wonder and pride when I told him that.
I am not saying that other watches can't be passed down but I know that if I take care of my watches (not necessarily baby sit them), my kids can inherit something their old man wore daily. And the watches would then still be functioning well.
Post by: vinorus on June 15, 2015, 03:57:12 PM
I really hope Rolex could stop increasing their price when they see many voice like you here :)...
But when the resources(money) is limited, people tend to buy a Sub C rather than a similar priced Grand Seiko SBGM001, don't they?
You may say these people are fooled by propaganda made by Rolex (I heard Rolex spent 70% revenue into advertising),
and I will totally agreed with you.
Question is, if only out of 30% is what a Rolex worth, why am I still admired and tempted to buy one?
Maybe I am a fool, but that is in my brain telling me if I have a budget say RM27,000 I will go for a Sub C; if I have a budget say RM40k+ I would go for a Daytona. Tell me I shouldn't do so or I'd make very wrong decision if the money has to be spent for any watch.
But why...
Have you read a book call <The Origin of Brand>? I am not sure if it is true but the book says:
The origin of Brand is planted in people's brain when a new category is created.
The brand name will be an inception to the brand category in the brain.
So the category/brand as following,
the first precise search engine brand / Google
the first car brand / Mercedes Benz
the first plastic container brand / Tupperware
the first brick toy brand / Lego
the first toothpaste brand / Colgate
the first jean brand / Levis
Maybe they are not the first manufacturer or inventor of the category but they are mostly the first brand introduced successfully to the mass market.
I was surprised when I read more about Rolex, after I link the above quote into it. I might be wrong but this is what I have observed:
category / brand
the first wrist watch brand / Rolex (my 2 c :VC is not the first wrist watch brand coz VC was a pocket watch brand)
the first water proof case brand / Oyster
the first 360 degree movement automatic movement brand / Perpetual
the first date function brand / Datejust
the first day function brand / Daydate
I found that Rolex is very firmed on the design. there is only one single design of Oyster case, they all have similar straight line and curve line. I heard a journalist once asked Gerald Genta what is the model of watch he wishes he could have designed one, he answered: An Oyster, any Oyster.
I don't know, when people say the most beautiful diver watch used to be the Submariner; the most beautiful chronograph watch used to be the Daytona... That also in people's mind.
I dun know but I think, we can't change people's mind, can we?
Just my 2 cents.
Post by: nikfs1881 on June 16, 2015, 02:26:28 AM
I see the points and appreciate the Grand Seiko and King Seiko...
I really hope Rolex could stop increasing their price when they see many voice like you here :)...
But when the resources(money) is limited, people tend to buy a Sub C rather than a similar priced Grand Seiko SBGM001, don't they?
You may say these people are fooled by propaganda made by Rolex (I heard Rolex spent 70% revenue into advertising),
and I will totally agreed with you.
Question is, if only out of 30% is what a Rolex worth, why am I still admired and tempted to buy one?
Maybe I am a fool, but that is in my brain telling me if I have a budget say RM27,000 I will go for a Sub C; if I have a budget say RM40k+ I would go for a Daytona. Tell me I shouldn't do so or I'd make very wrong decision if the money has to be spent for any watch.
But why...
Have you read a book call <The Origin of Brand>? I am not sure if it is true but the book says:
The origin of Brand is planted in people's brain when a new category is created.
The brand name will be a inception to the brand category in the brain.
So the category/brand as following,
the first precise search engine brand / Google
the first car brand / Mercedes Benz
the first plastic container brand / Tupperware
the first brick toy brand / Lego
the first toothpaste brand / Colgate
the first jean brand / Levis
Maybe they are not the first manufacturer or inventor of the category but they are mostly the first brand introduced successfully to the mass market.
I was surprised when I read more about Rolex, after I link the above quote into it. I might be wrong but this is what I have observed:
category / brand
the first wrist watch brand / Rolex (my 2 c :VC is not the first wrist watch brand coz VC was a pocket watch brand)
the first water proof case brand / Oyster
the first 360 degree movement automatic movement brand / Perpetual
the first date function brand / Datejust
the first day function brand / Daydate
I found that Rolex is very firmed on the design. there is only one single design of Oyster case, they all have similar straight line and curve line. I heard a journalist once asked Gerald Genta what is the model of watch he wishes he could have designed one, he answered: An Oyster, any Oyster.
I don't know, when people say the most beautiful diver watch used to be the Submariner; the most beautiful chronograph watch used to be the Daytona... That also in people's mind.
I dun know but I think, we can't change people's mind, can we?
Just my 2 cents.
If i am in your position, i would definitely buy the rolex..... Despite what everybody says and tries to justify for the brand they love, all luxury watches doesn't reflect its true cost anyway.....at least with rolex i know for sure it will retain its value if not increase overtime.....unfortunately not so sure if that's the case with GS or any other brand.....
It always boils down to what you're looking for....but if you are looking for a watch that ticked most boxes and retain its value over time, go for rolex......
Obviously jason has a different sort of criterion in his checklist, hence his different preference and direction on watch collecting journey.....
I dont have anything against GS, but if given a choice between Gs and Zenith, i would still go for Zenith if they are similarly prices.....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: nikfs1881 on June 16, 2015, 02:36:45 AM
As for your claim on 'first' of everything, beware....soon enough there'll be an army of WIS marching with pointy swords, heading your way.....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: vinorus on June 16, 2015, 09:45:54 AM
But i am quite intrigued with what you wrote about the origin of brand...., would love to buy the book and read it.....
As for your claim on 'first' of everything, beware....soon enough there'll be an army of WIS marching with pointy swords, heading your way.....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
lol, more 'first' here and you bet I am dying here :Praying:
the first wristwatch in the world to receive the Swiss Certificate of Chronometric Precision, granted by the Official Watch Rating Centre in Bienne (1910)
the first rotating bezel watch / Rolex Centregraph (1938) (watchuseek: Patent was earlier by other, so I guess Rolex bought the patent or what)
To celebrate the crossing of the channel, Rolex published a full-page ad on the front page of the Daily Mail proclaiming the success of the waterproof watch. This event marked the birth of the Testimonee concept. (1927)
the first advertising endorsement / Mercedes Gleitze signed with Rolex
the first divers’ watch waterproof to a depth of 100 metres (330 feet) / Submariner (1953)
the first watch confirmed by CERN that could indeed resist magnetic field of up to 1,000 gauss / Milgauss (1950) (was introduced 1956)
Rolex became the first watchmaking brand to pioneer the use of 904L for the cases of all its steel watches. (1985)
the first watch company using platinum in watch / Rolex (Rolexforum)
:HammerHead:
Post by: Maverick27 on June 16, 2015, 02:35:02 PM
I see the points and appreciate the Grand Seiko and King Seiko...
I really hope Rolex could stop increasing their price when they see many voice like you here :)...
But when the resources(money) is limited, people tend to buy a Sub C rather than a similar priced Grand Seiko SBGM001, don't they?
You may say these people are fooled by propaganda made by Rolex (I heard Rolex spent 70% revenue into advertising),
and I will totally agreed with you.
Question is, if only out of 30% is what a Rolex worth, why am I still admired and tempted to buy one?
Maybe I am a fool, but that is in my brain telling me if I have a budget say RM27,000 I will go for a Sub C; if I have a budget say RM40k+ I would go for a Daytona. Tell me I shouldn't do so or I'd make very wrong decision if the money has to be spent for any watch.
But why...
Have you read a book call <The Origin of Brand>? I am not sure if it is true but the book says:
The origin of Brand is planted in people's brain when a new category is created.
The brand name will be a inception to the brand category in the brain.
So the category/brand as following,
the first precise search engine brand / Google
the first car brand / Mercedes Benz
the first plastic container brand / Tupperware
the first brick toy brand / Lego
the first toothpaste brand / Colgate
the first jean brand / Levis
Maybe they are not the first manufacturer or inventor of the category but they are mostly the first brand introduced successfully to the mass market.
I was surprised when I read more about Rolex, after I link the above quote into it. I might be wrong but this is what I have observed:
category / brand
the first wrist watch brand / Rolex (my 2 c :VC is not the first wrist watch brand coz VC was a pocket watch brand)
the first water proof case brand / Oyster
the first 360 degree movement automatic movement brand / Perpetual
the first date function brand / Datejust
the first day function brand / Daydate
I found that Rolex is very firmed on the design. there is only one single design of Oyster case, they all have similar straight line and curve line. I heard a journalist once asked Gerald Genta what is the model of watch he wishes he could have designed one, he answered: An Oyster, any Oyster.
I don't know, when people say the most beautiful diver watch used to be the Submariner; the most beautiful chronograph watch used to be the Daytona... That also in people's mind.
I dun know but I think, we can't change people's mind, can we?
Just my 2 cents.
If i am in your position, i would definitely buy the rolex..... Despite what everybody says and tries to justify for the brand they love, all luxury watches doesn't reflect its true cost anyway.....at least with rolex i know for sure it will retain its value if not increase overtime.....unfortunately not so sure if that's the case with GS or any other brand.....
It always boils down to what you're looking for....but if you are looking for a watch that ticked most boxes and retain its value over time, go for rolex......
Obviously jason has a different sort of criterion in his checklist, hence his different preference and direction on watch collecting journey.....
I dont have anything against GS, but if given a choice between Gs and Zenith, i would still go for Zenith if they are similarly prices.....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: