Breitling owners - Stand up and be counted

[cd32815]

My only Breitling Sea Wolf.

[IWCking]

I dont own one. But dont dismiss breitling. Well, they are the only one with 100% cosc or the watch maker with highest cosc if i am not mistaken.

COSC, another can of worms waiting to be opened. I believe Rolex is still the leader followed by Omega, then comes Breitling. Could be wrong on this.

Well, rollie is mass produced, if you talked about the 'quantities', of course rollie will lead. But if you talk about percentage, breitling leads.

"Exemplar brands submitting to COSC
 Rolex submit by far the largest number of movements to COSC followed by Omega SA, Breitling, TAG Heuer and Panerai. [24] Breitling submit all movements for certification but other manufacturers only submit certain models."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COSC

[TheHobbit]

I dont own one. But dont dismiss breitling. Well, they are the only one with 100% cosc or the watch maker with highest cosc if i am not mistaken.

COSC, another can of worms waiting to be opened. I believe Rolex is still the leader followed by Omega, then comes Breitling. Could be wrong on this.

Well, rollie is mass produced, if you talked about the 'quantities', of course rollie will lead. But if you talk about percentage, breitling leads.

"Exemplar brands submitting to COSC
 Rolex submit by far the largest number of movements to COSC followed by Omega SA, Breitling, TAG Heuer and Panerai. [24] Breitling submit all movements for certification but other manufacturers only submit certain models."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COSC

Hence the can of worms. Do we look at number of movements? Percentages (if I make 1 watch and send it in, I am 100%)? Additionally, does having COSC means anything if the base movement you use are already COSC ready? What about the Geneva Seal? What about carrying the glashutte SA name? The new PP seal?

[IWCking]

I dont own one. But dont dismiss breitling. Well, they are the only one with 100% cosc or the watch maker with highest cosc if i am not mistaken.

COSC, another can of worms waiting to be opened. I believe Rolex is still the leader followed by Omega, then comes Breitling. Could be wrong on this.

Well, rollie is mass produced, if you talked about the 'quantities', of course rollie will lead. But if you talk about percentage, breitling leads.

"Exemplar brands submitting to COSC
 Rolex submit by far the largest number of movements to COSC followed by Omega SA, Breitling, TAG Heuer and Panerai. [24] Breitling submit all movements for certification but other manufacturers only submit certain models."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COSC

Hence the can of worms. Do we look at number of movements? Percentages (if I make 1 watch and send it in, I am 100%)? Additionally, does having COSC means anything if the base movement you use are already COSC ready? What about the Geneva Seal? What about carrying the glashutte SA name? The new PP seal?

Lol. Know you are going to say this. Anyway, breitling is not a small watch maker. So it makes no sense to use 1 watch and 100% analogy. 

Anyway, if you thinks carrying COSC doesnt mean anything, its your own call which of course i do not have to agree. 

[TheHobbit]

Lol. Know you are going to say this. Anyway, breitling is not a small watch maker. So it makes no sense to use 1 watch and 100% analogy. 

Anyway, if you thinks carrying COSC doesnt mean anything, its your own call which of course i do not have to agree. 

Interesting response. Never said COSC is not important. But it is not all there is to it. Many people get hung up on COSC and forget everything else. Just like people get hung up on iwc using eta movement. Yes the base is an eta, but not much remains the same after iwc get through it. Many people gets hung up on who has the most COSC cert, be it in numbers or percentage. Is it so important?

The need to carry and meet the requirements of carrying the glashutte name almost put some companies out of business. Perhaps it is good to weed out the weak, perhaps it will get some to be creative and stray making their own movements. who knows...

My thing is don't get caught with the wrong things. COSC is important to a certain extent, beyond that, what about the great work breitling has done to the movements? Hence my question, is the base eta movement COSC certifiable? How many appreciate the amount of work carried out by Breitling to make the base movement meet COSC requirements. Of course the main basic question is what are the COSC requirements? Accuracy? Finishing? Anything else?

How many knows that COSC test the basic movements outside the case.  The movement is shipped back to be fitted to the case. Any further testing after casing? does a bump along the way back impact the COSC?

Breitling is a great company, no denying it. Look at the fact that perhaps they are the only one at the moment to guarantee their own movement for 5 years. Back to the base eta movement. Breitling does not just put on a breitling brand rotor and toss it into a breitling case. They do lots more. Swan neck regulators, better finishing, changing the bearings, in some cases adding even extra jewels and even modules to the base eta movements. Just like iwc, some of the movement does not even look the same after breitling has gone through it.

So, yes COSC is important, more so to some then others, but it is not an end game. Just don't get hung up on the wrong things.

As for you not agreeing with me, well that is what makes the world goes round, and not money as many would like to think. It is good to have differing thought and not just follow the crowd.

[rusminag]

I don't fancy their designs... That's why Breitling is not in my wish list..

[muhren]

My only Breitling Sea Wolf.

Wow, that's a nice big chunk of steel. Looking good.

[sm]

Honestly I think watch making is a very competitive business. In the case of Breitling, I think it has lost its plot. Beautiful watches but no clear target market. A bit piloty ( but there's IWC pilot), rugged (then there is Pam), sporty (Rollie, seiko, tudor etc are there); if I were the country mgr for breitling, I shall have a tough time in creating a niche within the 10-15k bracket.
Equally for JLC too, good product but in a highly competitive 10-25k segment. Unless Rolex goes up the price ladder into the 25k+ range, that will leave a bigger pr gap.
In fact, I think newkid Ball is doing a better job at the AD's despite its name.

Sm

[IWCking]

Lol. Know you are going to say this. Anyway, breitling is not a small watch maker. So it makes no sense to use 1 watch and 100% analogy. 

Anyway, if you thinks carrying COSC doesnt mean anything, its your own call which of course i do not have to agree. 

Interesting response. Never said COSC is not important. But it is not all there is to it. Many people get hung up on COSC and forget everything else. Just like people get hung up on iwc using eta movement. Yes the base is an eta, but not much remains the same after iwc get through it. Many people gets hung up on who has the most COSC cert, be it in numbers or percentage. Is it so important?

The need to carry and meet the requirements of carrying the glashutte name almost put some companies out of business. Perhaps it is good to weed out the weak, perhaps it will get some to be creative and stray making their own movements. who knows...

My thing is don't get caught with the wrong things. COSC is important to a certain extent, beyond that, what about the great work breitling has done to the movements? Hence my question, is the base eta movement COSC certifiable? How many appreciate the amount of work carried out by Breitling to make the base movement meet COSC requirements. Of course the main basic question is what are the COSC requirements? Accuracy? Finishing? Anything else?

How many knows that COSC test the basic movements outside the case.  The movement is shipped back to be fitted to the case. Any further testing after casing? does a bump along the way back impact the COSC?

Breitling is a great company, no denying it. Look at the fact that perhaps they are the only one at the moment to guarantee their own movement for 5 years. Back to the base eta movement. Breitling does not just put on a breitling brand rotor and toss it into a breitling case. They do lots more. Swan neck regulators, better finishing, changing the bearings, in some cases adding even extra jewels and even modules to the base eta movements. Just like iwc, some of the movement does not even look the same after breitling has gone through it.

So, yes COSC is important, more so to some then others, but it is not an end game. Just don't get hung up on the wrong things.

As for you not agreeing with me, well that is what makes the world goes round, and not money as many would like to think. It is good to have differing thought and not just follow the crowd.

Well, what you said is pretty much common sense for watch lovers i must say. Well, anyway, what i stated is facts and nothing more and nothing less. But what you are trying to sell is kind of fictional. COSC is pretty much an objective which sets out some standard which we can benchmark at the very minimum.

You seems to have some issue with ETA. Well, i guess we all must be very thankful that we are able to own affordable watches due to ETA. I have no issue with ETA movement since the watch makers can focus more on designing and making good and attractive watches. Also, some watch critiques even acknowledge that ETA 2892A2 is probably better than some rolex in house movement. 

[TheHobbit]

Well, what you said is pretty much common sense for watch lovers i must say. Well, anyway, what i stated is facts and nothing more and nothing less. But what you are trying to sell is kind of fictional. COSC is pretty much an objective which sets out some standard which we can benchmark at the very minimum.

You seems to have some issue with ETA. Well, i guess we all must be very thankful that we are able to own affordable watches due to ETA. I have no issue with ETA movement since the watch makers can focus more on designing and making good and attractive watches. Also, some watch critiques even acknowledge that ETA 2892A2 is probably better than some rolex in house movement. 

Nope, no issues with ETA movements. I think they are great movements and have allowed many watch companies to flourish and develop. Main reason many companies use them as the base movement from which to develop and or modify to have their own movement. I have many (most in fact) watches in my collection powered by an ETA movement or it's derivative.

[Enkidu]

Hi, IWCKing + Hobbit,

Interesting arguments above from two learned watch collectors.

But as regards Breitling, if their watches do not carry the COSC certification, then I am afraid they will be no different from a Tissot or Mido (no disrespect to these 2 brands, which are in my opinion probably more equitably priced). To me, Breitling seems overly obsessed with COSC certification for their ETA based movements, like they seem obsessed with their lofty and hilarious claim of being instruments for aviation professionals. Both unfortunately I suspect are just poor justifications for their stratospheric price in the relative sense.

I also notice that Breitling installed more jewels to the base ETA movements but I wonder if the additional jewels really help the movement or if Breitling just instal the additional rocks for the sake of doing it to to impress the unsuspecting buyers. As stated above, watch making is a competitive industry and in a competitive industry, people will trumpet whatever improvement and innovation however small. I don't know about you guys but I have yet to read about how the superlative number of jewels which Breitling instal in their movement really helps the timekeeping or longevity of the watch (like for example what Omega was claiming with their Co-Axial). The point is, if the improvements by Breitling to the base ETA movement was so significant, then they should have just take one more small step and create their own movement 2 decades ago and not wait till 2010 to do so. Obviously, a blingy watch with a COSC cert and an advertisement with an actor resting against the body of a plane will do the trick just as effectively - although it also looks like his plane ran out of fuel and was forced to land in the middle of a desert because he did not know how to use his navitimer slide rule properly.

If I am not wrong, Breitling only has 1 in-house movement the BR-01. And this is only fitted in limited range of its chronographs. A company claiming to make instruments for professionals but after so many years of existence only managed to come up with 1 in-house movement in limited capacity - it sure says a lot.

I am pretty neutral as regards COSC certification and ETA movements. My wife's Air-King from 2004 has no cosc, but running at +2sec/day even now after 8 years without any servicing. Perhaps what we need is for some Breitling owners to come forward after 8 years and say that their COSC Breitling is still running consistently well within the COSC range after all that time.