Need some opinion

[TheHobbit]

I like Panerai much, just dun wish to pay so much the extra cost due to the market hottest (Goreng)

Who had owned the zenith watch ? Can share some experience with me (becox this brand may able to ask for more discount)

Panerai prices are pretty much controlled by Panerai with little or no discount. It has always been that way, except during the early days. Those days are basically over. As for the prices being 'goreng', perhaps on certain models and if you buy pre-loved. Otherwise, if you are buying new and buying from AD or boutique, the price is what you pay.

As for Zenith, they are a good brand. Prices does not reflect the quality of the watches or the movement (which is pretty good, if not great).

[Gigi]

usually, the ad sells the price at price lower than the pre owned shop but you got to wait very long depend on model. Base model usually had long long Q. If you cant  wait and got extra money to burn. Pre owned shop will be happy sells you one if you willing to pay extra.

[TheHobbit]

As i knew nowaday many of fashion watch has able to produce their 100% in-house movement (Hermes, montblanc and etc) and rolex is seem not to be 100% produce their movement.

I always feel 'upset' when I see things like these, in-house vs. no in-house, 100% in house vs. not 100% in-house, who makes everything in-house and who do not. Does it matter?

If it does, let me ask these questions:

1. Do they breed their own cattle for the leather straps?
2. Do they own the foundry to make the metal used in the case, parts etc?
3. Do they mine their own ore?
4. Do they have their own thread factory?
5. Do they own the company that makes the chemicals used to make the synthetic sapphire crystal?
6. On the same vein, do they manufacture their own rubies?

Would it not be better to source parts for the watch, e.g. leather straps from artisans that can make beautiful straps (with love and care) as compared to a factory produced leather strap?

Are in-house movement any better as compared to the run of the mill or mass produced movements? Take some of the recent new manufactured movements for example. Some have regulation problems, some even have the date change start as early as 10 pm and not instantaneous at 12 o'clock as some of these 'cheap' movements.

Have you seen the warning page in the instruction manual on how not to use your 'in-house' movements? Some even have warnings like' please do not turn the crown anti-clockwise when trying to change the date as this will damage the movement'. Really? Don't you think that after spending millions, if not billions, they could at least get this right? How difficult is it to to install a pawl that disengage if you accidentally turn the crown the wrong way? Or for that matter hacking mechanism? You don't see these issues on the ETA 2824.

I have seen one which looks like one of the run of the mill movement, but it is a manufactured movement. So it is based on the run of the mill movement, but we did everything ourselves. Ok, but now this new movement is like 30 times more expensive?

Apologies to all. Rant over.

Buy what you like not what is fitted inside the watch. You wear the watch, not the movement. If you want to wear the movement, get one of those cuff-links that have the movement inside it.

[pexus]

As i knew nowaday many of fashion watch has able to produce their 100% in-house movement (Hermes, montblanc and etc) and rolex is seem not to be 100% produce their movement.

I always feel 'upset' when I see things like these, in-house vs. no in-house, 100% in house vs. not 100% in-house, who makes everything in-house and who do not. Does it matter?

If it does, let me ask these questions:

1. Do they breed their own cattle for the leather straps?
2. Do they own the foundry to make the metal used in the case, parts etc?
3. Do they mine their own ore?
4. Do they have their own thread factory?
5. Do they own the company that makes the chemicals used to make the synthetic sapphire crystal?
6. On the same vein, do they manufacture their own rubies?

Would it not be better to source parts for the watch, e.g. leather straps from artisans that can make beautiful straps (with love and care) as compared to a factory produced leather strap?

Are in-house movement any better as compared to the run of the mill or mass produced movements? Take some of the recent new manufactured movements for example. Some have regulation problems, some even have the date change start as early as 10 pm and not instantaneous at 12 o'clock as some of these 'cheap' movements.

Have you seen the warning page in the instruction manual on how not to use your 'in-house' movements? Some even have warnings like' please do not turn the crown anti-clockwise when trying to change the date as this will damage the movement'. Really? Don't you think that after spending millions, if not billions, they could at least get this right? How difficult is it to to install a pawl that disengage if you accidentally turn the crown the wrong way? Or for that matter hacking mechanism? You don't see these issues on the ETA 2824.

I have seen one which looks like one of the run of the mill movement, but it is a manufactured movement. So it is based on the run of the mill movement, but we did everything ourselves. Ok, but now this new movement is like 30 times more expensive?

Apologies to all. Rant over.

Buy what you like not what is fitted inside the watch. You wear the watch, not the movement. If you want to wear the movement, get one of those cuff-links that have the movement inside it.

i've seen many many postings in many many watch forums...
especially on why movement is an important consideration when spending $$ to buy watches....

but i've never seen one like this.....
The last sentence especially, is a classic!   

[G.MAC]

buy a grand seiko since it is medium grade price.

[hanz079]

As i knew nowaday many of fashion watch has able to produce their 100% in-house movement (Hermes, montblanc and etc) and rolex is seem not to be 100% produce their movement.

I always feel 'upset' when I see things like these, in-house vs. no in-house, 100% in house vs. not 100% in-house, who makes everything in-house and who do not. Does it matter?

If it does, let me ask these questions:

1. Do they breed their own cattle for the leather straps?
2. Do they own the foundry to make the metal used in the case, parts etc?
3. Do they mine their own ore?
4. Do they have their own thread factory?
5. Do they own the company that makes the chemicals used to make the synthetic sapphire crystal?
6. On the same vein, do they manufacture their own rubies?

Would it not be better to source parts for the watch, e.g. leather straps from artisans that can make beautiful straps (with love and care) as compared to a factory produced leather strap?

Are in-house movement any better as compared to the run of the mill or mass produced movements? Take some of the recent new manufactured movements for example. Some have regulation problems, some even have the date change start as early as 10 pm and not instantaneous at 12 o'clock as some of these 'cheap' movements.

Have you seen the warning page in the instruction manual on how not to use your 'in-house' movements? Some even have warnings like' please do not turn the crown anti-clockwise when trying to change the date as this will damage the movement'. Really? Don't you think that after spending millions, if not billions, they could at least get this right? How difficult is it to to install a pawl that disengage if you accidentally turn the crown the wrong way? Or for that matter hacking mechanism? You don't see these issues on the ETA 2824.

I have seen one which looks like one of the run of the mill movement, but it is a manufactured movement. So it is based on the run of the mill movement, but we did everything ourselves. Ok, but now this new movement is like 30 times more expensive?

Apologies to all. Rant over.

Buy what you like not what is fitted inside the watch. You wear the watch, not the movement. If you want to wear the movement, get one of those cuff-links that have the movement inside it.

Thanks for pointing this out with your long post.
I believe this topic has been beaten to death in other international forums but still...
Anyway, I used to belong to the group that salute everything in-house... then I figured out that the term "in-house" is really just a marketing gimmick...
As far as I know, Seiko produced everthing in house down to the lubricant... correct me if I'm wrong though...
Seiko just did not market themselves as such... I dun understand why sometimes... it would certainly bump up their status in the Horology circles...
But the thing is, when a normal watchbuyer walks into a shop being able to afford high end pieces... the most potent selling point the salesman will use is the in house thingy... And if the customer can afford, they will want something perceived as exclusive... just ego i guess...
But after a while, I found out that watches are not only movements... it's the whole package...
How can you buy and wear a watch just because it's movement is in house and looks ugly and yet you are forced to like it because of the sole reason is "in-house"?
Let's not forget the hoohaa Tag Heuer caused when they stated that their 1887 movement is an "in-house" one when in fact it is not...
And when the CEO clarifies, the definition of "in-house" has been bent and twisted to justify it's usage in Tag 1887 movement...
So what exactly constitutes "in-house"?
Bear in mind we live in a world of supply chains wether we like it or not...
The food we eat (meats and veg came frm farms), houses we stay (steel bars frm India, tiles frm China), cars we drive (Engines frm Thailand), electronics we use (processors frm Taiwan) all consists of parts that are outsourced one way or another...
I suggest to people that are obsessed with in house to start rearing their own chickens and cows, grow their own vegetables in their backyard and please use your own crap and pee as fertilizers only... anything else will not be in house mind you...
Times have changed and so do I, I have learned to appreciate the other facets of a timepiece, it's ruggedness, design, case and overall appeal... a movement is just a movement... if the designs speak out loud to me, I'd buy it even if its a Quartz...
Apologies as well... rant over

[panerai10days]

Thanks to all my senior 

[hanz079]

I would suggest that you buy what you like and what you can afford...
But never ever compare your time piece with the other guy and say yours is better just because of the "in-house" movement... 

[jamjam]

Rolex 

[siodee]

wah 25k = medium grade. Thus > 15K = low grade?

>10K = peanut grade?

>5K = dirt grade?

>1K = no eye see grade?

I read this thread at wrong timing My meeting guess ask me why I laugh, cant believe I own "no eye see grade", in fact, wearing one today 

But back to the opinion, if you have RM25k to spare, to some of us, are luxury, get the one you want the most, regardless of how people perceive. Unless, you continue to have RM25k in the drawer, then it does not manner anymore

everyone of us here have their very own preference, so ultimate decision still lying back to you.

Just my 9 cents of word

P/S: damn... I am in "no eye see grade" 

[Sid Vicious]

+1 siodee

Don't worry bro I am there too..today also wear same watch, everyday also same here  as my watches are all back home 

We will get there, btw, how your outing over the weekend, pm mate

[Omnipotent]

hopefully in a few months' time my TT1 will move up from no eye see grade to dirt grade