Author Topic: Come and share your Vintage watches  (Read 105147 times)

Offline TheHobbit

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #75 on: June 13, 2011, 03:30:12 PM »
In a recent interview with Tag Heuer:

You introduced your new chronograph Calibre 1887 in December 2009. The movement quickly sparked discussions among connoisseurs when it be- came apparent that the base caliber came from Seiko, a fact that you hadn’t made clear right from the start. Could you clarify this issue now: exactly which parts of this caliber do you make yourself and which parts come from Seiko?

Seiko sold us the rights to the intellectual property. The background is as follows: Seiko applied for patents for a project in the late 1990s; based on these patents, Seiko Instruments, which is part of the Seiko Group, developed a genuine manufacture movement, which it produced in very small numbers in Japan. Seiko sold a few watches with this caliber around the year 2000 solely in Japan.

When we began looking for options for constructing our own chronograph, we had to orient ourselves according to various specifications. Our movement would have to be an integrated chronograph caliber with a column wheel, but not like Zenith’s El Primero and not with a pace of 36,000 semi-oscillations per hour. It would have to differ from the chronograph movements that we’d al- ready used and we also wanted it to be slimmer than the Valjoux 7750. These specs resulted in technical requirements that were very similar to the ones de- scribed in Seiko’s patent documents. So instead of starting from square one and reinventing the wheel, we contacted Seiko and asked them if we could purchase certain elements of the intellectual property rights to this caliber. That would enable us to save two or three years’ time. The performance of the watches that Seiko had manufactured for the Japanese market was very good and the construction was exactly what we needed.

Nevertheless, after we’d reached an agreement with Seiko, we still had to industrialize everything anew. There’s a big difference between making a few thousand units via manufacture work as Seiko had done in Japan on the one hand, and our plans on the other hand, which envisioned producing tens of thousands of calibers per year. So starting with the patent, we proceeded, as it were, from a blank page, organizing the entire construction according to our planned production. As a result, our movement differs from Seiko’s caliber in many important details, for example, the diameter, the height, the base plate and the bridges. And unlike Seiko’s escapement, ours is supplied by Nivarox. The two calibers also differ with regard to the production process and the machinery. So, although our caliber is constructively based on the same ideas as Seiko’s, it’s nevertheless a genuine TAG Heuer caliber. And needless to say, it’s “Swiss made.”

Which components do you make and which parts does Seiko deliver?

Among other parts, we produce the base plate, the bridges and the inner portion of the rotor. In addition to that, we also collaborate with 22 suppliers. One of them is Seiko Instruments, from which we order some of the stamped parts. The other 21 suppliers are all Swiss, for example Kif for the shock absorbers and Nivarox for the escapement. Fleury, one of Switzerland’s best manufacturers, produces the machines that we use for our own production. They deliver to us the machines for dry-milling brass components such as plates and bridges. By eliminating the use of oil, we don’t need to cleanse the parts between two sequential processing steps: that saves time and money, which is an important factor for big-series production like ours.

Offline Manburg

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #76 on: June 13, 2011, 04:44:24 PM »

Yes the very same 'purist' who clamour after AP watches with JLC movement. Snob factor at work perhaps? Just like I know this guy who says he will never buy the Montblanc Star Nicolas Rieussec Monopusher Chronograph because Montblanc is not a manufacturer or even a watch maker. Well, I say his loss.

I love the discussion of this topic very much!  :Dancing_banana:

I guess in Mont Blanc case, these so-called purists were loathing the fact that Mont Blanc converted itself overnight into a manufacture by buying the Minerva manufacture in 2007?

About the JLC in AP watches, I agree there's a double standard there, but then again, can we honestly compare a JLC movement with, say, a Sellita, or even a base ETA? But yes, the double standard is there. Which reminds me of Omega's own caliber 2500, the heart of amongst others, the Seamaster Professional and Planet Ocean (I use these two as examples because I own these two). Just because it's based on the ETA 2892-A2, the fact that Omega improved it much further by applying the revolutionary Co-Axial Escapement to the ebauche, thus making it in a league of its own, is not at all recognised by these purists who still call those watches as ETA'd Omega. Well, if one is talking about in-house, does the fact that the Swatch Group that own Omega is also the owner of ETA not make the co-axed ETA an in-house? I'm not going to answer that question, because in love, as in war, there's no right or wrong. ;D Or am I wrong?
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” BILL SHANKLY

Offline Gigi

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #77 on: June 13, 2011, 04:56:40 PM »
that blunder i guess in indirectly promote seiko as good quality manufacturer. I am sure tag wanted to save some time and cost and therefore choose seiko movement as base.

I guess everyone had their own view on in house stuff. I cant comment on hi end stuff cause i don own any of it  :Laughing_on_floor:

Offline TheHobbit

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #78 on: June 13, 2011, 05:33:51 PM »

I love the discussion of this topic very much!  :Dancing_banana:

I guess in Mont Blanc case, these so-called purists were loathing the fact that Mont Blanc converted itself overnight into a manufacture by buying the Minerva manufacture in 2007?

About the JLC in AP watches, I agree there's a double standard there, but then again, can we honestly compare a JLC movement with, say, a Sellita, or even a base ETA? But yes, the double standard is there. Which reminds me of Omega's own caliber 2500, the heart of amongst others, the Seamaster Professional and Planet Ocean (I use these two as examples because I own these two). Just because it's based on the ETA 2892-A2, the fact that Omega improved it much further by applying the revolutionary Co-Axial Escapement to the ebauche, thus making it in a league of its own, is not at all recognised by these purists who still call those watches as ETA'd Omega. Well, if one is talking about in-house, does the fact that the Swatch Group that own Omega is also the owner of ETA not make the co-axed ETA an in-house? I'm not going to answer that question, because in love, as in war, there's no right or wrong. ;D Or am I wrong?

Manburg,

Yeah very interesting discussion point really. As for Montblanc, they did not buy Minerva. Parents bought Minerva and gave it to them on a silver platter. I believe (I stand corrected on this) there was a tussle between 'giving' Minerva to Panerai or Montblanc. It went to Montblanc. I am sure had it gone Panerai, there will be many that will say YES and there will be as many who will say NO. There is no pleasing everyone.

Did they (Richemont) do wrong? I don't know and I don't really care. Look at LVMH, I mean not many people blasted LV when they introduced watches (using Zenith) and screwing up Zenith (to me anyway) in the process. I mean going from a manufacture to a fashion brand?

As for people that say it is wrong to have cross brand relationship, well what is wrong with it. So Swatch owns ETA and Lemania and I guess just about most of the movement manufacturer. So, having an ETA/ Omega movement does not make Omega a manufacturer? Really? I mean does it matter at all? So is Breguet a manufacture? On the same basis, Lemania was given to Breguet and is now Manufacture Breguet. How is this different from Montblanc?

Just like Tag Heuer using Seiko movement as the basis of the development of their movement. Is it that a big a deal? Did Tag 'lie' about the movement being in-house by not telling it is based on a Seiko movement? Do they need to tell who are their supplier? At least it did cut down the development time and cost. I always believe in why recreate the wheel?

If it is such a big deal, why no one is asking who are the major supplier for case blanks to the Swiss industry.

Well Rolex used the Zenith movement and before that Valjoux in the Daytona. I don't see 'purist' bitching about it, but quietly paying for the privilege to owning one. Double standards?

IWC uses JLC and ETA movement in the very popular Mark Pilot series. Don't see many 'purist' bitching about it. What about Muhle Glashutte? Just come up with your own base plate for the ETA 7750 and there you are, a manufacture. I just hate people who practice double standards to serve their purpose and preach about it. AP with their base movement and a chrono module piggy back and no purist complaining? I mean, as a 'purist chronograph' collector, that is just wrong, more so at that price bracket. Let's not get started with the 'purist' view of the column wheel in chrono movement. The moon watch is doing fine without the column wheel.

What about the fact that the design team in Panerai was involved in the design of the Timewalker collection from Montblanc? So will these watches go up in value? I seriously doubt so.

Sorry for ranting. Perhaps we should start a new thread on this.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2011, 05:36:24 PM by TheHobbit »

Offline takashi78

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #79 on: June 14, 2011, 07:35:33 AM »
Hobbit, great idea to start a new thread on this, please do it.
Sounds interesting and should stir up some good conversation and exchange of ideas.

Offline siodee

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #80 on: June 14, 2011, 08:25:39 AM »
Hmmm....seem like this arguments of purists or in house made have different interpretation by different members. I reckon that to be cost effective, a lot of watch makers will source parts from different suppliers, that is the fact, I will not argue on that.

My point is if I know up front of the fact that a watch declare using ETA xxxx, and I know it before I buy, then I will accept it. Now, if ETA uses, for example, parts from China to assemble the movement, then that is my responsibility to find out, the watch makers are not liable for that since they clarify upfront they use ETA xxxx movement. But if they declare using ETA xxxx, and after that realize using, for example, China replica ETA. For that I feel like cheated.

There is no right or wrong, but different people have different view, that make us all different.  ;D

Just my 7 cents of word... :Cheers:
 
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Offline corporateangel

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #81 on: September 02, 2011, 07:39:24 AM »
Hi All

My first post - I wanted to introduce a couple of watches within my collection as I now live in Penang full time.

1. Omega La Magique
Omage La Magique Technical information
30 years ago only 261 of these Omega La Magique watches were made by Omega. Extraordinary technical details make "The Omega La Magique" one of the slimmest and stylistically most interesting watches ever created. The casing is only 2.6 mm in thickness and is rolled from pure gold ingots. Instead of having 22 hands there are two paper-thin revolving sapphire glass discs marked with gold dust. The quartz movement which drives them is placed off-centre. This enables the La Magique watchface to be transparent and the skin or sleeve of the wearer to show through. So the watch can adapt to the colour of its surroundings. Apart from obvious refined technology the Omegsa La Magique also offers a quality of craftsmanship almost unmatched today. Cog wheels have to be fitted to the 0.12 mm sapphire discs. This is something that cannot be done by the best independent horological experts needing a  specialized team at Omega Geneva the daunting take of putting the watch together piece by piece. There is absolutely no room for error in such a slim watch. The same care is taken with the strap which is stitched by hand and its gold clasp hand-moulded.

And another is

Omega Golden Seamaster 168.023 Calibre 751
One of the rarest watches Omega produced in the 1960s was the 'Golden' Seamaster Day-Date, reference 168.023. Powered by a calibre 751 certified chronometre movement, this model also came in gold top and stainless steel versions. Omega estimates that no more than 1000 of the Seamaster Chronometre Day-Date pieces - BA 168.023 (gold gold), BB 168.023 (pink gold) and BC 168.023 (white gold) - were ever produced, with only a few thousand of the corresponding gold cap and steel models being released to market.

WatchTime journalist, Michael Mehltretter, writing in 2002, revealed that despite comprehensive research, the golden chronometer Seamaster, ref BA 168 023, did not surface at all during the preceding ten years. He says that the "Seamaster Chronometre Day-Date is an absolute rarity", and writes, "It was absent from the literature available from Christie’s, Sotheby's, Antiquorum, and the German auction houses Dr. Crott and Henry’s." It had also not turned up in any of the better-known collectors haunts. "Even the less elaborate versions in steel with yellow gold covering (ref. CD 168 023) were encountered only six times: three in the USA, once in a private collection in Germany, and twice at Henry's over the last fifteen years", he says.

Michael Mehltretter couldn't find one between 1992 and 2002 (possibly longer), I found one on Antiquorum from an auction back in 2007 (sold for 12,000 CHF), one recently popped up on the Omega watch forums from a deceased estate and of course my own, the only watches in 20+ years

Anyway, I just wanted to let other Malaysian watch collectors know what we have in the country.

Regards

Paul
I'm the owner of Luxurious Magazine® (www.luxuriousmagazine.com) and I love watches. Favourite brands historically are Omega, Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin, Girard Perregaux and Breguet. I should also make a special mention to others I have great admiration for: Hermann Grieb, Jochen Benzinger, Georg Bartkowiak, Maximilian Busser and Friends, Morten Linde, Jorn Werdelin and Itay Noy.

Offline siodee

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #82 on: September 03, 2011, 06:39:01 AM »
Hi Paul, can you post some photo of yr collection? I am also Omega lover... ;D
“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore... Dream... Discover..." - Mark Twain

Offline corporateangel

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #83 on: September 03, 2011, 08:21:42 AM »
Hi siodee

I'll get some nice hi-res pics done asap and post.

Regards

Paul
I'm the owner of Luxurious Magazine® (www.luxuriousmagazine.com) and I love watches. Favourite brands historically are Omega, Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin, Girard Perregaux and Breguet. I should also make a special mention to others I have great admiration for: Hermann Grieb, Jochen Benzinger, Georg Bartkowiak, Maximilian Busser and Friends, Morten Linde, Jorn Werdelin and Itay Noy.

Offline ckng515

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #84 on: September 03, 2011, 10:20:39 AM »
Hi all,
Would like to share some old school pieces;)

Rolex 6694, my dad is the first owner since 1985, complete with all the boxes n paper.

Rolex datejust 1601 from my grandpa.

My dad's omega constellation since the 80s.it still running strong after the complete overhaul by Omega few years ago.

My dad's wedding gift in the 70's.


And a super beat up rolex bubbleback 5505.
HAGWE
Cheers,
Ck
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Offline bOcy

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #85 on: September 03, 2011, 11:08:24 AM »
Hi all,

May I show you my father's watches, don't know much about them but he bought them in the 80s:












-bocy

Offline siodee

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #86 on: September 03, 2011, 02:25:55 PM »
Ck&bOcy, nice collections of Vintage. Do you guys send the watches for service? If yes, what is the damage range like?
“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore... Dream... Discover..." - Mark Twain

Offline bOcy

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #87 on: September 04, 2011, 08:04:49 PM »
Ck&bOcy, nice collections of Vintage. Do you guys send the watches for service? If yes, what is the damage range like?

I don't really know the details,

seiko 5 did not service, currently not running properly

omega was serviced by the local watchshop's "relative" for under 800 (in 2009?), time was off the first time came back from watchshop

rolex was serviced by the rolex malaysia (in 2009?) for a few k

-bocy

Offline corporateangel

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #88 on: October 04, 2011, 10:36:47 AM »
Wow.... jut managed to get back on?!?

Danny has been helping me, for some weird reason I was banned after one post - must have been a software glitch as I tried today using Chrome and voila ... I'm back!

Anyway, I'll start to list some of my vintage watches.

First one is one of my Patek Philippe's from the late 1940's ref. 1584





I'm the owner of Luxurious Magazine® (www.luxuriousmagazine.com) and I love watches. Favourite brands historically are Omega, Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin, Girard Perregaux and Breguet. I should also make a special mention to others I have great admiration for: Hermann Grieb, Jochen Benzinger, Georg Bartkowiak, Maximilian Busser and Friends, Morten Linde, Jorn Werdelin and Itay Noy.

Offline Watchnewby

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #89 on: October 04, 2011, 11:37:01 AM »
Wow! A Vintage Patek from the 40s. Nice.  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:

Offline Hellkite

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #90 on: October 04, 2011, 02:14:31 PM »
Wow! That patek seems to be in excellent condition! What a beauty. Thanks for sharing! 

Offline siodee

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #91 on: October 04, 2011, 02:36:56 PM »
Vintage PP, still function? look very new, you just bought it???
“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore... Dream... Discover..." - Mark Twain

Offline bryankwc

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #92 on: October 04, 2011, 02:39:11 PM »
Nice vintage with the classic Patek seconds dial at the 6 o'clock which I love.
Also love the unique markers at 3 and 9.
Take care, Ciao!  :thumbsup:
"My dream;
      Rolex by day &
               Patek by night." ;)

Offline corporateangel

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #93 on: October 04, 2011, 03:34:02 PM »
Thanks for the nice comment Watchnewby, I am very proud of it.
I'm the owner of Luxurious Magazine® (www.luxuriousmagazine.com) and I love watches. Favourite brands historically are Omega, Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin, Girard Perregaux and Breguet. I should also make a special mention to others I have great admiration for: Hermann Grieb, Jochen Benzinger, Georg Bartkowiak, Maximilian Busser and Friends, Morten Linde, Jorn Werdelin and Itay Noy.

Offline corporateangel

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #94 on: October 04, 2011, 03:36:04 PM »
Hi Zitan

The Watch originally came from the US, it had been lovingly owned by the same chap for years. I was looking at a Vacheron Constantin with Rams horned lugs, and then stumbled over this. Just had to have it  ;D
I'm the owner of Luxurious Magazine® (www.luxuriousmagazine.com) and I love watches. Favourite brands historically are Omega, Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin, Girard Perregaux and Breguet. I should also make a special mention to others I have great admiration for: Hermann Grieb, Jochen Benzinger, Georg Bartkowiak, Maximilian Busser and Friends, Morten Linde, Jorn Werdelin and Itay Noy.

Offline corporateangel

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #95 on: October 04, 2011, 03:42:42 PM »
Yes the watch still functions! Although its quite rare there one for sale on chrono24 on a replacement leather strap. I also have a absolutely mint Patek Calatrava 3944 that I just put up for sale on the Singapore watch exchange http://www.luxuriousmagazine.com/patek-1.jpg - I have to wait for a bit before I put it up for sale on here as I am too new.

I'm going to get some pics together of my Omega's and as soon as I can will post.

« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 03:45:00 PM by corporateangel »
I'm the owner of Luxurious Magazine® (www.luxuriousmagazine.com) and I love watches. Favourite brands historically are Omega, Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin, Girard Perregaux and Breguet. I should also make a special mention to others I have great admiration for: Hermann Grieb, Jochen Benzinger, Georg Bartkowiak, Maximilian Busser and Friends, Morten Linde, Jorn Werdelin and Itay Noy.

Offline corporateangel

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #96 on: October 04, 2011, 03:47:32 PM »
bryankwc

Thank you for the nice comments and I like your signature ;)

I'm currently looking at buying an Omega Constellation 18k pie pan with hidden crown on a Milanese bracelet - now that would be a nice watch to walk around with!
I'm the owner of Luxurious Magazine® (www.luxuriousmagazine.com) and I love watches. Favourite brands historically are Omega, Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin, Girard Perregaux and Breguet. I should also make a special mention to others I have great admiration for: Hermann Grieb, Jochen Benzinger, Georg Bartkowiak, Maximilian Busser and Friends, Morten Linde, Jorn Werdelin and Itay Noy.

Offline h.chang

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #97 on: October 10, 2011, 08:56:24 AM »
I collect vinatge or rather antique Rolex watches dating from the 1920s! In 1905 Hans Wilsdorf with his brother in law Davis founded W & D Wilsdorf and Davis ,manufacturing watch cases and distributing watches. In 1908 Rolex was formed , with cases made by W & D and movements made by Aegler in Bienne , Switzerland. It was not uncommon to have retailers names on the dials and even movements.

Offline h.chang

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #98 on: October 10, 2011, 09:10:35 AM »
Hi corporateangle.
Your Patek 1584 is in very good shape. I have a Gold Patek 3445 with 37 jewels , gold rotor automatic , with date which I bought 16 years ago. It is still in good running order.
As I have not learnt how to upload the photo ,I can only send it to you by email attachment. Cheers. h.chang

Offline h.chang

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Re: Come and share your Vintage watches
« Reply #99 on: October 10, 2011, 10:36:15 AM »
Got to stage of uploading the images of the watches to photobucket but  unable to link it to MWF.
Will have to consult Scot.C. as to next step. Not very  computer savvy.