Learn about automatic movement

[eric_j]

Hi to all masters here,

Pardon me if I raise some boring topic.
I wanna ask you all that ,  there is many kind of automatic movement,how to differentiate the movement(type),wat is ETA? I read one post that say about swatch new automatic watch and I don really understand what the difference between the 2 movement that is posted.
(BORROW:Swatch already came out with their own automatic line few years back as ETA is under their wing.(was interested on the auto skeleton then) Is just a matter of time for Swatch to create thier automatic chorno collection. Based on the information, the movement is ETA C01.211 which the dial layout is similar with ETA/Valjoux 7750 with 15 jewels. Not sure about the accuracy of the movement though.)
Beside all this movement,how come some is so expensive and some can make it so cheap?Nowaday ,no need thousand ,  few hundred RM can get automatic watch already.And the jewel inside e.g 25 jewels , wat does it mean?Some with 15,25,32 and even more.
I am sorry if I raise this kind of topic.Since I am beginner,a lot of thing I did not know,so I hope all the sifu out there can help me,and if there is any website that teach all this kind of things,maybe you guys can post it.I believe many ppl started to love watch first is from the watches appearance,but about inside,know nth.Like myself,spent thousand ringgit buying watch,but know nth about them.When i started reading this forum,then only i start to know deeper.At least now i know i spent so much is not just to buy a 'watch'. It it a WATCH...   

Thanks,regards.

[ck77]

Hi eric_j, thanks for 'borrowing' my phases.

First of all, am not a master or sifu here, I acquired my limited knowledge of watches through reading watch magazine, forum (like TZ and WUS) or talk to the watch nuts (like most of us here ). Pardon me as I can't answer to your technical question. Am sure our friendly uncle Google could answer most of your quiries in details 

Basically, ETA is the movement maker, it used to supply movement to most of the Swiss watch makers. However, after the acquisition by Swiss Group, it no longer supply the movement outside of the group. How come some is so expensive and some is cheap? A lot of factors, movement, finishing, material, craftmanship etc etc.

Welcome to the poison land  and join the GTG session, am sure all the seniors here are willing to share their knowledge with you.

[lilpronaz]

It's very lengthy and time consuming to reproduce the FAQ on mechanical watch movements. You can refer to the article below:

http://www.timezone.com/library/wwatchfaq/wwatchfaq631668591017665598

I think Chris (yen) is the most knowledgeable forumer when it comes to the watch engine. You can probably ask him for pointers.

[chrisyen]

It's very lengthy and time consuming to reproduce the FAQ on mechanical watch movements. You can refer to the article below:

http://www.timezone.com/library/wwatchfaq/wwatchfaq631668591017665598

I think Chris (yen) is the most knowledgeable forumer when it comes to the watch engine. You can probably ask him for pointers.

this is something i dont like.... all the big hat force me to write ! 

ok ok .....

question 1

what is ETA, how many automatic movement available?.......

most of the automatic watches we seen in the market are using same movement....

there are only a few company can produce automatic movement!
1. ETA group of companies under Swatch group
2. Seiko - but seiko do not sell their mechanical movement directly to other company
3. Citizen - its caliber 8100 is the cheapest automatic movement u can get....
4. selita - ETA copycat....
5. poljot
etc

all above is making movement in bulk ! there are cheap but cheap doesnt mean its not good !
there are all very good, reliable, accurate, easy to maintain.... thats why ppl call all these movement a workhorse!



question 2

why some so cheap why some so expensive !

- different grade of movement cost differently
  citizen do not offer different grade of movement but ETA do !
  eta normally offer 3 - 4 grade of movement

take a look at eta 2824-2 as example

    * Standard: nickel plated with Etachoc shock protection. Nickel balance, Nivarox-2 spring, Nivaflex NO. No decorations. [2, +-12, +-30, 20]
    * Elaboroe: Etachoc or Incabloc shock protection, nickel balance, Nivarox-2 spring, Nivaflex NO. Some decorations. $68 [3, +-7, +-20, 15]
    * Top: Incabloc shock protection, Glycodor balance, Anachron spring, Nivaflex NM, Red Jewels. Some decorations. $118 [5, +-4, +-15, 10]
    * Chronometre - Top: Incabloc shock protection, Glycodor balance, Anachron spring, Nivaflex NM, Red Jewels. Some decorations. ["COSC" version]


the differences include the finish (rhodium or nickel, rhodium is more expensive and more durable), the decoration (many different varieties), and the quality of the components.  The highest-grade version cost more than twice what the lowest-grade version costs.  These movements are include many component upgrades such as high-grade balance wheels (Glucydur), balance springs, mainsprings, escapements, and balance jewels.

Many people are not familiar with the precious metal rhodium, which is used on my movements.  It is very expensive.  As of Sept 06, gold is $580 per oz., platinum is $1200 per oz., and rhodium is $4700 per oz.!  Rhodium is approximately 8 times more expensive than gold.  It is used because it gives a brilliant finish and is very resistant to tarnishing.

question 3 about jewels

how many jewels only mean how many man made ruby was used in the movement !
all these ruby are cheap ! cost u few cents of usd i guessed....
so the quantity doesnt guarantee the quality....
ruby was necessary to be placed on the some parts to stand for the friction!
so its the watch design that determine the nos of jewels!
a simple design handwind watch like eta 6497, 6498, 7001.. only 17 jewels !

base movement is not expensive! but movement with better finishing is expensive especially when human hand is need !
labor cost in europe where most watches movement are finished is very very expensive!

so there are plenty factory in swiss who can upgrade the movement....
by adding function modul... like DD
by adding finishing..... like soprod
by modifying parts.... soprod

i hope i dont create more questions mark on your head now!

before i end this
look at this



and



can u c the different?

also read this from eta official spec
http://www.eta.ch/d/produkte/Mecaline/pdf/28xx_2_decors_eta.pdf

[ck77]

yenfoolun, good summarise 

Picture one - Chinese clone?
Picture two - ETA?

[Fred]

Great review.

Is that the comparison of the eta movements applying different materials and have different grade of finishing?

[patryn33]

let me take a tab at it.

1st is unfinished
2nd is finished

[chrisyen]

let me take a tab at it.

1st is unfinished
2nd is finished

BINGO

cheapest material is brass... so most watch parts are made by brass!
those steel looking is plating.... nickel or rhodium !
then the finishing on top of the plated parts make the watch shine!

[eric_j]

Really thank yen and others for writing so much thing here.I really appreciate all the knowledge share to me.After reading,I start to know bit bout mechanical movement,but also still got question mark,hehe   (A little bit complicated i guess),but knowledge is not wat i can absord all in a day or two.    Still got long way to go.
Anyway really really thank.I believe and hope this will attract more guest to MWF as we can learn a lot here.For beginner like me,it is a good knowledge.Long live MWF   
-As for CK77,I believe we all have no cure already.Deeply in poison     That y we r all here.
-Will try to join you all if there is any gathering going on.Since I am staying at johor,so it would be a bit difficult.Will tell you all if I am going KL.(Sorry,by the way,wat is GTG?Don understand the short form)

Thanks...

[chrisyen]

wat is GTG?Don understand the short form)

get together