Malaysia Watch Forum
Main Forums => General Discussion - Modern Watches => Topic started by: Kennypane on September 16, 2012, 12:46:32 AM
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Some strong accusations going on in one forum. That's the trouble with vintage and perceived value in monetary terms. Lots of expose' and truth to be told. I wonder where the truth lies when a person acquires a super rare one piece only vintage and trying to acknowledge it's existence and faced by the denial of the whole community and even accusing some within the community to be manipulators of prices. Truth or lies?
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This forum?
Regard
Tyler
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Kennypane,
That is the problem when the company history is not known to many and there may not be documents or complete documents on its history or the watches it produces.
As for the watch in question, it has to come to a conclusion. Both brands involved are unable to provide conclusive evidence of they ever making the said watch. However based on experience and what I have read (not from that thread), the places the owner went, though representing the brand may not be the final authority in confirming or not the existence of the watch. Perhaps a trip to the hq of the brands involved may reveal more evidence or truth of the watch. As it stands, it does not look good.
As for the actions of the thread starter, we can only guess what is his or her true intentions. Be it to inform, educate or otherwise. But subsequent action by said poster does leave doubts of his intentions and credibility. Calling out others as cheats and/ or forgers does not bode well either. As one of the guys the poster had accuse of cheating explained, he does not doubt the originality of the parts of the watch and that in the course of the watch life, it may have had parts replaced (original and true to the era, but may not be true to the watch) and the final product is what he or she has in hand.
As with any vintage military watches, these watches were designed to work in the field and many times, replacement parts may be difficult to get. The service Center for these watches, many a times are within the military itself and these watch makers, may and can replace parts of the watches with what ever they have to make the watch serviceable again to be reissued. I myself have faced this many times in my attempt at collecting military watches.
I do not not deny that there can and may be parties involved that can and will inflate prices for personal gains, horror stories linked to Rolex milsubs and it's pricing, but unless there is an actual exposé of these practises, it remains horror stories. Personally, if the price for the watch is too high, you cannot verify the authencity of the piece, you have doubts, step away. There will be others with provenance that will come your way. Collect those instead.
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Kenny ,
Are u referring to this thread ?
http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/message/1347614990/Some+thoughts+about+the+genuine+and+counterfeit+PANERAI
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This forum?
Regard
Tyler
Tyler, the risti forum.
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Hobbit,
Well put. But the current owner of the vintage piece is trying to acknowledge the authenticity. The people or community relied one person who wrote the Vintage book together with his partner and what if these 2 persons have left out this important specimen and they cannot admit now and say "oooops, we missed this one, crap!" it be an embaeassment to admit now. I look at the piece, it is possible for A pocket watch movement usually winding crown at 12 o'clock position to be placed as it is and could be have been smacked with a Cali dial in a haste when Panerai commissioned Rolex and say " hey make us a watch now to test, just use your pocket watch movement and encased it and send to us". It's possible, my imagination.
Kent, yup that's the post.
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All vintage panerai use the old rolex pocket watch movement. (actually not all but for the sake of simplifying things here). I mean all Radiomir style case used in WW2 spot Rolex vintage pocket watch movement. At least for those that have been proper authenticate.
The argument is after the cali dial watch, all the watch have the word "panerai" on its dial except maybe those sterile Kampfschimmer watch. A watch show up after the the time and with Rolex logo but no a prototype is ... ... hard to believe. Not to say is a lie but hard to believe.
Regard
Tyler
Hobbit,
Well put. But the current owner of the vintage piece is trying to acknowledge the authenticity. The people or community relied one person who wrote the Vintage book together with his partner and what if these 2 persons have left out this important specimen and they cannot admit now and say "oooops, we missed this one, crap!" it be an embaeassment to admit now. I look at the piece, it is possible for A pocket watch movement usually winding crown at 12 o'clock position to be placed as it is and could be have been smacked with a Cali dial in a haste when Panerai commissioned Rolex and say " hey make us a watch now to test, just use your pocket watch movement and encased it and send to us". It's possible, my imagination.
Kent, yup that's the post.
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Hobbit,
Well put. But the current owner of the vintage piece is trying to acknowledge the authenticity. The people or community relied one person who wrote the Vintage book together with his partner and what if these 2 persons have left out this important specimen and they cannot admit now and say "oooops, we missed this one, crap!" it be an embaeassment to admit now. I look at the piece, it is possible for A pocket watch movement usually winding crown at 12 o'clock position to be placed as it is and could be have been smacked with a Cali dial in a haste when Panerai commissioned Rolex and say " hey make us a watch now to test, just use your pocket watch movement and encased it and send to us". It's possible, my imagination.
Kent, yup that's the post.
Hi Kenny,
From my reading, the original post indicated that the owner has already established the authencity of the watch. He was just posting it to educate the forum on the existence of the watch.
As for any embarrassment this watch would cause to the authors of the book vintage Panerai, I seriously doubt it. If you go the their website, I am sure you will find many watches that is not in the book. I am sure, were the watch in question or any future watches that could appear, that is proven to be real, we would see an update to the book, which we should make clear is Vintage Panerai The References.
All I can say is that I have had the opportunity to deal with a number of the persons in the thread and I do not doubt the honesty and capabilities of any of them. They may make mistakes along the way, some excusable, some not, but at the end of the day, no one can can really tell for sure if the watch is real or not. At best, it is an educated guess based on what information is available to them at that point of time. Unless and until there is documentary proof of the fact, it remains that, an educated guess.
If the owner is happy with the watch, so be it. Who are we to question? And at the end of the day, that is all that matters, what you think and not others.