Malaysia Watch Forum
Main Forums => General Discussion - Modern Watches => Topic started by: muhren on July 18, 2012, 09:22:09 AM
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Noticed that there is not much discussion here on this particular brand, so I decided to put up this poll to have a feel of Breitling's popularity amongst MWF members.
You'll need to vote in order to see the results. Appreciate if members can also state which model of Breitling that they own.
TQ for your participation.
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No.. and no intention to own one....
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Yes, a superocean chrono.. :)
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No.
Their pilot range dial is too busy for my taste.
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Unfortunately, none of their designs appeal to me.
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Only piece I own - Breitling Navitimer World
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8163/7595470786_f2562915f8_z.jpg)
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Only one I have and only one I like.
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/IMG_0253.jpg)
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taste changes over the years..
used to dream of owning a Navitimer when I was in my 20's...
as I grew older I found it more difficult to read the complicated dials so lost interest..
Now that they have their own in-house, may have a 2nd look provided the dial is not cluttered.
My brother owns 1 and although he treats his watch like dirt banging it here and there, it has worked beautifully for the last 15 years with only 1 service in between..accuracy does go off COSC after several years which needs servicing..
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The only Breitling i am interested in but have yet to own.
(http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss179/hanz079/transoceantimedate.jpg)
The Transocean series.
The chronograph on their in house B-01 chrono movement in the same series also has the clean looks.
I cannot quite accept their trademark busy dials.
Purists might argue that is what Breitling is all about but not for me.
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I dont own one. But dont dismiss breitling. Well, they are the only one with 100% cosc or the watch maker with highest cosc if i am not mistaken.
Breitling is not popular in msia. But a lot of hong kong, states and japan collectors like it.
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I dont own one. But dont dismiss breitling. Well, they are the only one with 100% cosc or the watch maker with highest cosc if i am not mistaken.
COSC, another can of worms waiting to be opened. I believe Rolex is still the leader followed by Omega, then comes Breitling. Could be wrong on this.
The thing about COSC and Breitling (flame suit on), is that in all likely hood, the movements Breitling sources (from that 'evil' company) are already COSC certifiable! But not certified as yet. So the question that begs to be asked is what input does Brietling have that further improves on the movement?
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Only piece I own - Breitling Navitimer World
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8163/7595470786_f2562915f8_z.jpg)
Loved this watch very much ! hope to own one some day, but without the GMT :)
like the slide rule too :thumbsup:
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The only Breitling i am interested in but have yet to own.
(http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss179/hanz079/transoceantimedate.jpg)
The Transocean series.
The chronograph on their in house B-01 chrono movement in the same series also has the clean looks.
I cannot quite accept their trademark busy dials.
Purists might argue that is what Breitling is all about but not for me.
Hi Hanz,
I was quite excited about the new Transocean (without chrono) a few months ago when I first read about it in the internet. After a little wait, I saw one (white dial) at the AD near my office. The legibility is good since it's at 42mm. The stick hands and indices are also desirable in my opinion as they give the watch a vintage 60's look. I cannot comment on the accuracy. The sales guy could not be 100% sure if it's COSC rated but I found out later on my own that this watch comes with a COSC cert but "chronometre" is not printed on the dial (not a big problem in my opinion).
But just to be clear, this watch runs on a modified ETA movement with only about 40hrs of power reserve. I was hoping that with a bigger case maybe Breitling can squeeze in a double barrel or a longer mainspring but that's just me and my wishful thinking. The lugs are also sharp at the tips. The leather strap is the standard 22mm strap you get with the Navitimer. I think the folding buckle (when used with this thick Navitimer strap) is unsuited to this watch. No see-through case back (but if you use an ETA movement in an expensive watch, I guess there is every reason to hide it).
Summary: Sorry mate, at the price range (>RM12,500) I think this is just an overpriced Oris or a Portuguese pretender.
best regards,
Enkidu
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Hi Loo,
Your observations are spot on...
The watch looks good case and dial wise but the whole package does not really scream good value.
Which is why I have yet to pull a trigger on one.
Correct me if I am wrong but Breitling have called themselves the "Chronograph" expert and back that up by spending to develop their own manufacture B-01 chronograph movement.... question is... why don't they develop a simple 3 hand with date movement to fit in their non chronograph watches eg: Colt, Superocean and this Transocean Series?
I would imagine after developing a movement with a chronograph complication, doing a variation of the movement without the chronograph would be a walk in the park? Or is it my wishful thinking? ;D
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Thanks guys for all your responses and comments. Do keep them coming.
Based on the poll results so far I can only say that, at least in Malaysia, Breitling is a brand with lots of "untapped potential". :)
Honestly I do not own a Breitling yet. However I have in my sights a Navitimer with the new caliber B01.
The Navitimer to me is the quintessential Breitling and the new chronograph movement comes with a 5 year warranty.
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No.
Their pilot range dial is too busy for my taste.
Agreed...too "Glossy"... :Confused:
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Correct me if I am wrong but Breitling have called themselves the "Chronograph" expert and back that up by spending to develop their own manufacture B-01 chronograph movement.... question is... why don't they develop a simple 3 hand with date movement to fit in their non chronograph watches eg: Colt, Superocean and this Transocean Series?
I would imagine after developing a movement with a chronograph complication, doing a variation of the movement without the chronograph would be a walk in the park? Or is it my wishful thinking? ;D
Hi, Hanz,
In my mind the true chronograph expert was PROBABLY Seiko with their 6139 and 6138 movements which came out in 1969/1970 around the same time as Zenith's El Primero. Then the quartz revolution came and Seiko again was well in front - remember the over-engineered 7A28s, 7A38s and 7A48s of the 1980's??
Zenith is pretty much resting on past glory and Breitling for the past many years (before their 01 movement came out) only demonstrated their unmatched ability to stuff 7750 movements into blingy cases and sell them at high premium in yellow boxes with airplanes printed on them and advertised them with the help of a scientologist with a nolstalgic look, probably yearning for more saturday night fevers.
Why no simple 3-hand movement with date from Breitling? I have no idea. But they sell their watches claiming them to be "Instruments for Professionals". I guess a 3-hand watch with date function will look less like an "instrument" and therefore inconsistent with their advertisement.
best regards,
Enkidu
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:laugh: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: well said bro :thumbsup: :Laughing_on_floor:
really made my day ;D
Correct me if I am wrong but Breitling have called themselves the "Chronograph" expert and back that up by spending to develop their own manufacture B-01 chronograph movement.... question is... why don't they develop a simple 3 hand with date movement to fit in their non chronograph watches eg: Colt, Superocean and this Transocean Series?
I would imagine after developing a movement with a chronograph complication, doing a variation of the movement without the chronograph would be a walk in the park? Or is it my wishful thinking? ;D
Hi, Hanz,
In my mind the true chronograph expert was PROBABLY Seiko with their 6139 and 6138 movements which came out in 1969/1970 around the same time as Zenith's El Primero. Then the quartz revolution came and Seiko again was well in front - remember the over-engineered 7A28s, 7A38s and 7A48s of the 1980's??
Zenith is pretty much resting on past glory and Breitling for the past many years (before their 01 movement came out) only demonstrated their unmatched ability to stuff 7750 movements into blingy cases and sell them at high premium in yellow boxes with airplanes printed on them and advertised them with the help of a scientologist with a nolstalgic look, probably yearning for more saturday night fevers.
Why no simple 3-hand movement with date from Breitling? I have no idea. But they sell their watches claiming them to be "Instruments for Professionals". I guess a 3-hand watch with date function will look less like an "instrument" and therefore inconsistent with their advertisement.
best regards,
Enkidu
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My opinion is in line with enkidu's comments who was able to put it in such clear & succint lingo unlike my usual bumbling self.
I must however emphasise that this is only my personal opinion and also why I never ended up buying a Breitling. My brother on the other hand loves Breitlings although he has never understood why I never pulled the trigger on a Breitling as well.
Obvious enkidu being a legal eagle says it much better than I possibly could have... :thumbsup:
At the end of the day we are different personalities with individual tastes and preferences... no one is more right than the other... :Cheers:
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(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8283/7608166588_7d262f8dba_z.jpg)
But..... this scientologist and his nostalgic look makes Bretiling look so cool! ;D
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IWC tried to do it with US Navy Fighter School
Breitling rides on acrobatic and WWI & WWII veteran airshows, not quite as exciting as an actual military top fighter unit
ORIS tried to link up with some French helicopter reconaissance units and some outfit flying warplanes of past eras
I honestly think that none of this inferred connection works if you are objective enough..
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IWC tried to do it with US Navy Fighter School
Breitling rides on acrobatic and WWI & WWII veteran airshows, not quite as exciting as an actual military top fighter unit
ORIS tried to link up with some French helicopter reconaissance units and some outfit flying warplanes of past eras
I honestly think that none of this inferred connection works if you are objective enough..
Hi, Joseph,
You are quite right. They are just marketing strategies, nothing more, hoping to net those of us who often wish we are doing something else which appear more cool, exciting, glamorous and attractive to the babes of this world (instead of sitting around in an uninspiring office, answering phone calls & solving other people's messy problems). Why do you think I bought the GO Navigator??
BTW, I guess you missed out the most ambitious of them all - BELL & ROSS; these guys are probably trying to make connection with all pilots right from the Red Baron Manfred von Richthofen (WW1) to Erich Hartmann, Pappy Boyington of WWII and to the present era pilots of the F-117 & F-35.
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But..... this scientologist and his nostalgic look makes Bretiling look so cool! ;D
I truly wonder if he will be able to fly that P-51 Mustang and still properly adjust the slide rule on that Navitimer of his, especially when he is also wearing that big pair of sunglasses which probably makes the tiny numbers on the slide rule totally illegible. Eyes will probably go..... :Confused:
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i owned one actually.. superocean, and still loving it.
(http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww96/xdma/IMG-20120205-00019.jpg)
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i owned one actually.. superocean, and still loving it.
(http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww96/xdma/IMG-20120205-00019.jpg)
Good looking Superocean 42. The red chapter ring is a nice touch.
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My only Breitling Sea Wolf.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b307/cd32815/SeaWolf.jpg)
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I dont own one. But dont dismiss breitling. Well, they are the only one with 100% cosc or the watch maker with highest cosc if i am not mistaken.
COSC, another can of worms waiting to be opened. I believe Rolex is still the leader followed by Omega, then comes Breitling. Could be wrong on this.
Well, rollie is mass produced, if you talked about the 'quantities', of course rollie will lead. But if you talk about percentage, breitling leads.
"Exemplar brands submitting to COSC
Rolex submit by far the largest number of movements to COSC followed by Omega SA, Breitling, TAG Heuer and Panerai. [24] Breitling submit all movements for certification but other manufacturers only submit certain models."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COSC
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I dont own one. But dont dismiss breitling. Well, they are the only one with 100% cosc or the watch maker with highest cosc if i am not mistaken.
COSC, another can of worms waiting to be opened. I believe Rolex is still the leader followed by Omega, then comes Breitling. Could be wrong on this.
Well, rollie is mass produced, if you talked about the 'quantities', of course rollie will lead. But if you talk about percentage, breitling leads.
"Exemplar brands submitting to COSC
Rolex submit by far the largest number of movements to COSC followed by Omega SA, Breitling, TAG Heuer and Panerai. [24] Breitling submit all movements for certification but other manufacturers only submit certain models."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COSC
Hence the can of worms. Do we look at number of movements? Percentages (if I make 1 watch and send it in, I am 100%)? Additionally, does having COSC means anything if the base movement you use are already COSC ready? What about the Geneva Seal? What about carrying the glashutte SA name? The new PP seal?
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I dont own one. But dont dismiss breitling. Well, they are the only one with 100% cosc or the watch maker with highest cosc if i am not mistaken.
COSC, another can of worms waiting to be opened. I believe Rolex is still the leader followed by Omega, then comes Breitling. Could be wrong on this.
Well, rollie is mass produced, if you talked about the 'quantities', of course rollie will lead. But if you talk about percentage, breitling leads.
"Exemplar brands submitting to COSC
Rolex submit by far the largest number of movements to COSC followed by Omega SA, Breitling, TAG Heuer and Panerai. [24] Breitling submit all movements for certification but other manufacturers only submit certain models."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COSC
Hence the can of worms. Do we look at number of movements? Percentages (if I make 1 watch and send it in, I am 100%)? Additionally, does having COSC means anything if the base movement you use are already COSC ready? What about the Geneva Seal? What about carrying the glashutte SA name? The new PP seal?
Lol. Know you are going to say this. Anyway, breitling is not a small watch maker. So it makes no sense to use 1 watch and 100% analogy. :Laughing_on_floor:
Anyway, if you thinks carrying COSC doesnt mean anything, its your own call which of course i do not have to agree. :Laughing_on_floor:
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Lol. Know you are going to say this. Anyway, breitling is not a small watch maker. So it makes no sense to use 1 watch and 100% analogy. :Laughing_on_floor:
Anyway, if you thinks carrying COSC doesnt mean anything, its your own call which of course i do not have to agree. :Laughing_on_floor:
Interesting response. Never said COSC is not important. But it is not all there is to it. Many people get hung up on COSC and forget everything else. Just like people get hung up on iwc using eta movement. Yes the base is an eta, but not much remains the same after iwc get through it. Many people gets hung up on who has the most COSC cert, be it in numbers or percentage. Is it so important?
The need to carry and meet the requirements of carrying the glashutte name almost put some companies out of business. Perhaps it is good to weed out the weak, perhaps it will get some to be creative and stray making their own movements. who knows...
My thing is don't get caught with the wrong things. COSC is important to a certain extent, beyond that, what about the great work breitling has done to the movements? Hence my question, is the base eta movement COSC certifiable? How many appreciate the amount of work carried out by Breitling to make the base movement meet COSC requirements. Of course the main basic question is what are the COSC requirements? Accuracy? Finishing? Anything else?
How many knows that COSC test the basic movements outside the case. The movement is shipped back to be fitted to the case. Any further testing after casing? does a bump along the way back impact the COSC?
Breitling is a great company, no denying it. Look at the fact that perhaps they are the only one at the moment to guarantee their own movement for 5 years. Back to the base eta movement. Breitling does not just put on a breitling brand rotor and toss it into a breitling case. They do lots more. Swan neck regulators, better finishing, changing the bearings, in some cases adding even extra jewels and even modules to the base eta movements. Just like iwc, some of the movement does not even look the same after breitling has gone through it.
So, yes COSC is important, more so to some then others, but it is not an end game. Just don't get hung up on the wrong things.
As for you not agreeing with me, well that is what makes the world goes round, and not money as many would like to think. It is good to have differing thought and not just follow the crowd.
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I don't fancy their designs... That's why Breitling is not in my wish list..
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My only Breitling Sea Wolf.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b307/cd32815/SeaWolf.jpg)
Wow, that's a nice big chunk of steel. Looking good.
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Honestly I think watch making is a very competitive business. In the case of Breitling, I think it has lost its plot. Beautiful watches but no clear target market. A bit piloty ( but there's IWC pilot), rugged (then there is Pam), sporty (Rollie, seiko, tudor etc are there); if I were the country mgr for breitling, I shall have a tough time in creating a niche within the 10-15k bracket.
Equally for JLC too, good product but in a highly competitive 10-25k segment. Unless Rolex goes up the price ladder into the 25k+ range, that will leave a bigger pr gap.
In fact, I think newkid Ball is doing a better job at the AD's despite its name.
Sm
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Lol. Know you are going to say this. Anyway, breitling is not a small watch maker. So it makes no sense to use 1 watch and 100% analogy. :Laughing_on_floor:
Anyway, if you thinks carrying COSC doesnt mean anything, its your own call which of course i do not have to agree. :Laughing_on_floor:
Interesting response. Never said COSC is not important. But it is not all there is to it. Many people get hung up on COSC and forget everything else. Just like people get hung up on iwc using eta movement. Yes the base is an eta, but not much remains the same after iwc get through it. Many people gets hung up on who has the most COSC cert, be it in numbers or percentage. Is it so important?
The need to carry and meet the requirements of carrying the glashutte name almost put some companies out of business. Perhaps it is good to weed out the weak, perhaps it will get some to be creative and stray making their own movements. who knows...
My thing is don't get caught with the wrong things. COSC is important to a certain extent, beyond that, what about the great work breitling has done to the movements? Hence my question, is the base eta movement COSC certifiable? How many appreciate the amount of work carried out by Breitling to make the base movement meet COSC requirements. Of course the main basic question is what are the COSC requirements? Accuracy? Finishing? Anything else?
How many knows that COSC test the basic movements outside the case. The movement is shipped back to be fitted to the case. Any further testing after casing? does a bump along the way back impact the COSC?
Breitling is a great company, no denying it. Look at the fact that perhaps they are the only one at the moment to guarantee their own movement for 5 years. Back to the base eta movement. Breitling does not just put on a breitling brand rotor and toss it into a breitling case. They do lots more. Swan neck regulators, better finishing, changing the bearings, in some cases adding even extra jewels and even modules to the base eta movements. Just like iwc, some of the movement does not even look the same after breitling has gone through it.
So, yes COSC is important, more so to some then others, but it is not an end game. Just don't get hung up on the wrong things.
As for you not agreeing with me, well that is what makes the world goes round, and not money as many would like to think. It is good to have differing thought and not just follow the crowd.
Well, what you said is pretty much common sense for watch lovers i must say. Well, anyway, what i stated is facts and nothing more and nothing less. But what you are trying to sell is kind of fictional. COSC is pretty much an objective which sets out some standard which we can benchmark at the very minimum.
You seems to have some issue with ETA. Well, i guess we all must be very thankful that we are able to own affordable watches due to ETA. I have no issue with ETA movement since the watch makers can focus more on designing and making good and attractive watches. Also, some watch critiques even acknowledge that ETA 2892A2 is probably better than some rolex in house movement. :Cheers:
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Well, what you said is pretty much common sense for watch lovers i must say. Well, anyway, what i stated is facts and nothing more and nothing less. But what you are trying to sell is kind of fictional. COSC is pretty much an objective which sets out some standard which we can benchmark at the very minimum.
You seems to have some issue with ETA. Well, i guess we all must be very thankful that we are able to own affordable watches due to ETA. I have no issue with ETA movement since the watch makers can focus more on designing and making good and attractive watches. Also, some watch critiques even acknowledge that ETA 2892A2 is probably better than some rolex in house movement. :Cheers:
Nope, no issues with ETA movements. I think they are great movements and have allowed many watch companies to flourish and develop. Main reason many companies use them as the base movement from which to develop and or modify to have their own movement. I have many (most in fact) watches in my collection powered by an ETA movement or it's derivative.
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Hi, IWCKing + Hobbit,
Interesting arguments above from two learned watch collectors.
But as regards Breitling, if their watches do not carry the COSC certification, then I am afraid they will be no different from a Tissot or Mido (no disrespect to these 2 brands, which are in my opinion probably more equitably priced). To me, Breitling seems overly obsessed with COSC certification for their ETA based movements, like they seem obsessed with their lofty and hilarious claim of being instruments for aviation professionals. Both unfortunately I suspect are just poor justifications for their stratospheric price in the relative sense.
I also notice that Breitling installed more jewels to the base ETA movements but I wonder if the additional jewels really help the movement or if Breitling just instal the additional rocks for the sake of doing it to to impress the unsuspecting buyers. As stated above, watch making is a competitive industry and in a competitive industry, people will trumpet whatever improvement and innovation however small. I don't know about you guys but I have yet to read about how the superlative number of jewels which Breitling instal in their movement really helps the timekeeping or longevity of the watch (like for example what Omega was claiming with their Co-Axial). The point is, if the improvements by Breitling to the base ETA movement was so significant, then they should have just take one more small step and create their own movement 2 decades ago and not wait till 2010 to do so. Obviously, a blingy watch with a COSC cert and an advertisement with an actor resting against the body of a plane will do the trick just as effectively - although it also looks like his plane ran out of fuel and was forced to land in the middle of a desert because he did not know how to use his navitimer slide rule properly.
If I am not wrong, Breitling only has 1 in-house movement the BR-01. And this is only fitted in limited range of its chronographs. A company claiming to make instruments for professionals but after so many years of existence only managed to come up with 1 in-house movement in limited capacity - it sure says a lot.
I am pretty neutral as regards COSC certification and ETA movements. My wife's Air-King from 2004 has no cosc, but running at +2sec/day even now after 8 years without any servicing. Perhaps what we need is for some Breitling owners to come forward after 8 years and say that their COSC Breitling is still running consistently well within the COSC range after all that time.