Malaysia Watch Forum
Main Forums => Links and Resources => Topic started by: sshark on March 24, 2012, 09:35:23 PM
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Similar tech from Swatch
http://wiki.epfl.ch/polymac/documents/hpm-en.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylmAQSn-aF4&list=FLFQDJHwlBfjgxTz9k6aeDag&index=1&feature=plpp_video
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Actually Swatch "stole" it from Seiko. Seiko is stupid and not patent their "Auto-Quartz" technology in one short worldwide so what swatch do is one up seiko and patent it worldwide (after studying seiko technology).
Damn these swiss elves. :mooning:
Regards
Tyler
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Thanks for highlighting that to me otherwise I will believe what the dark side story
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that's new to me~ well at least it did not commercialise ;D
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The dark side? You're too serious, my friend.
Actually do you know the similar story on IWC and Tag Heuer? ;)
Regards
Tyler
Thanks for highlighting that to me otherwise I will believe what the dark side story
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I don;t know about IWC but I do know about Seiko and Tag 1887 calibre. So what about IWC?
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Ya i want to know too....
Whats the story behind them?
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Albert Pellaton invented the all famous Pellaton winding system. It was use for most of their watches from 50s till 90s. However their new caliber 89xxx is actually using seiko magic lever type design. They won't tell you in public but I think they will admit. Seiko's Magic Lever winding design is a better system for mass manufacturing.
Regards
Tyler
*I remove caliber 801xx from the original post because I was mistaken it wasn't a pellaton but it is. My apology.
Ya i want to know too....
Whats the story behind them?
I don;t know about IWC but I do know about Seiko and Tag 1887 calibre. So what about IWC?
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Albert Pellaton invented the all famous Pellaton winding system. It was use for most of their watches from 50s till 90s. However their new caliber 89xxx and 801xx is actually using seiko magic lever type design. They won't tell you in public but I think they will admit. Seiko's Magic Lever winding design is a better system for mass manufacturing.
Regards
Tyler
Ya i want to know too....
Whats the story behind them?
I don;t know about IWC but I do know about Seiko and Tag 1887 calibre. So what about IWC?
I don't think IWC is using Seiko magic lever. It is similar in design to the Pellaton design perhaps simplified or maybe even adopted. Both the Pellaton and Magic lever came out about the same time but the Pellaton had more parts thus making the Magic lever 'better' as it has less parts and easier to mass produce. Even Cartier new in-house movement uses the same design. It is no biggie to me as I always believe in why recreate the wheel.
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The Pellaton winding system is invented by Albert Pellaton in 1950, the Magic Lever System came later in 1959. There was a debate whether the magic lever was indeed an improved version of the Pellaton system. However one thing for sure, watch manufacturer under Richemont group, IWC, Panerai, Cartier and even JLC does using the magic lever system in some of their watches and admit albeit secretly it is adopt from a seiko design. You're also correct, as they didn't buy a seiko ebauche to put in their watch per se.
My point is the swiss then to be rather petty when it comes to acknowledgment of others beside their own. I don't think it is a big fuss to adopt an existing system and improve upon it but trying to hide the fact by mislabeling isn't helping their integrity.
On top of that IWC and JLC actually are great company. they are not like TagH or OP(Panaerai). I think in order to to be cost effective they have to use to Magic Lever system in some of their lower end watch. Just like they use quartz but they don't try tell you it's not power by battery.
On one side I'm happy that Seiko's technology is regard among the best in the world but on the other side I hate to see other abuse it by not giving them proper credit. Are the swiss ashamed by the fact they are adopting some of seiko design? Seem rather insecure to me.
We as customer sometimes being misled to believe all IWC comes with pellaton winding system but on da vinci and aquatimer chrono it's more like a magic lever system. Where the actual Pellaton are only to be found on the more expansive 500x caliber and 80xxx.
It's sad to miss out important detail like that.
Regards
Tyler
Albert Pellaton invented the all famous Pellaton winding system. It was use for most of their watches from 50s till 90s. However their new caliber 89xxx and 801xx is actually using seiko magic lever type design. They won't tell you in public but I think they will admit. Seiko's Magic Lever winding design is a better system for mass manufacturing.
Regards
Tyler
Ya i want to know too....
Whats the story behind them?
I don;t know about IWC but I do know about Seiko and Tag 1887 calibre. So what about IWC?
I don't think IWC is using Seiko magic lever. It is similar in design to the Pellaton design perhaps simplified or maybe even adopted. Both the Pellaton and Magic lever came out about the same time but the Pellaton had more parts thus making the Magic lever 'better' as it has less parts and easier to mass produce. Even Cartier new in-house movement uses the same design. It is no biggie to me as I always believe in why recreate the wheel.
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However one thing for sure, watch manufacturer under Richemont group, IWC, Panerai, Cartier and even JLC does using the magic lever system in some of their watches and admit albeit secretly it is adopt from a seiko design.
My point is the swiss then to be rather petty when it comes to acknowledgment of others beside their own. I don't think it is a big fuss to adopt an existing system and improve upon it but trying to hide the fact by mislabeling isn't helping their integrity.
We as customer sometimes being misled to believe all IWC comes with pellaton winding system but on da vinci and aquatimer chrono it's more like a magic lever system. Where the actual Pellaton are only to be found on the more expansive 500x caliber and 80xxx.
Are you sure on this? I am not defending the Swiss but did they admit (secretly) that the system they use is based on the Seiko Magic Lever?
Anyway before we go further, some pictures....
The Seiko Magic Lever.
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/L1050899a.jpg)
The Pellaton system, the full blown version.
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/IMG_0103.jpg)
The Pellaton system, the simplified version.
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/IMG_0104.jpg)
As used on the Cartier MC1904 (I stand corrected) movement.
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/IMG_0105.jpg)
You do see similarities between the simplified Pellaton system to the Seiko Magic lever. Well to me, it looks like full circle, Pellaton system first, perhaps Seiko adopted and simplified the Pellaton system and call it the Magic Lever and now Richemont adopt the simple magic lever and call it the simple Pellaton system. No harm no foul I guess?
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If either party feel there is a patent infringement and it is threatening their businesses, one can initiate a lawsuit against the other. Sometimes it is also a matter of economics should they go ahead with a lawsuit. By the end of the day, either win or lose, the lawyers make the money.
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Yes. We agree to disagree... Good discussion....
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I think you are not wrong to say the it comes to a full circle. Just that a improve magic lever system ? a new pellaton system.
IWC currently maintain 2 type of auto winding system, the pellaton and magic lever.
Regards
Tyler
You do see similarities between the simplified Pellaton system to the Seiko Magic lever. Well to me, it looks like full circle, Pellaton system first, perhaps Seiko adopted and simplified the Pellaton system and call it the Magic Lever and now Richemont adopt the simple magic lever and call it the simple Pellaton system. No harm no foul I guess?