Malaysia Watch Forum
Main Forums => General Discussion - Modern Watches => Topic started by: TheHobbit on September 17, 2011, 04:17:57 PM
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As you guys amy or may not know, I am currently streamlining my collection. On of the things that have been playing in my mind is to go single brands. That does not mean that I will not keep some of the other watches, but the focus would be biased towards a single brand. I was thinking of going all Panerai and keeping the Rolex (GMT Master and SeaDweller), Tudor (Heritage Chrono, Snowflake, Date Day and Date), Breguet Type XX, Sinn U1 Lemon, Omega X-33, Breitling Aerospace and the IWC Mk XV and Mk XV Spitfire Limited Edition. That would mean giving up all the military watches, the Omega SM300, Omega 2254 and the Seamaster Chrono, Longines WWW and Legend Diver and others.
Would you do it?
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I would do it and I did it. I streamlined my collection to Rolex and Panerai only. I am letting go and have let go my Bell & Ross, Longines, Ball, U-Boat, Tudor, Tissot, Seiko, Orient, Casio G-Shock, Ennebi Fondale, IWC and other minor brands to make way and to afford the two. Personal advice: to ease the pain of letting them go, look at it as upgrading your collection. Most of the time i put in 2-3 pieces for a single Rollie or Pam. At the end of the day, am very happy about it. Just dont go looking at old pictures of your watches :'(. I still miss them but if not for them that have gone, i wont have the current crop today.
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I would do it and I did it. I streamlined my collection to Rolex and Panerai only. I am letting go and have let go my Bell & Ross, Longines, Ball, U-Boat, Tudor, Tissot, Seiko, Orient, Casio G-Shock, Ennebi Fondale, IWC and other minor brands to make way and to afford the two. Personal advice: to ease the pain of letting them go, look at it as upgrading your collection. Most of the time i put in 2-3 pieces for a single Rollie or Pam. At the end of the day, am very happy about it. Just dont go looking at old pictures of your watches :'(. I still miss them but if not for them that have gone, i wont have the current crop today.
G.Mac,
No pain no gain. No worries, I have so far sold and part exchange the Bell & Ross, Stowa, Laco, G-Shocks, Seiko, Citizen and some others. I am not one to be sentimental. It is just, wondering if it 'good' to be just one brand. I currently have a number of Panerai (5) and would it make sense to have more.
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Whether it is good or not is a little hard to say. If it were to me, I would not put all my eggs into one basket hence i chose 2 brands. At least another name looks back at you everytime you look at the time instead of purely Rolex or Panerai. But since you are maintaining your other brands then it is no problem and you should proceed with your Panerais. Whether it makes sense to have more is purely up to you. Do you want more? ;D
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Don't really know if I want more Panerai. I do want to get the Destro and a base, so the PAM00219 will answer both the needs. So perhaps one more. Anyway, prices does not seem to be holding out well for Panerai. I guess it is bottoming out. Even LE/ SE are staying on the shelves longer. The 'slowdown' and uncertainty in the market is not helping. Like I said in another post, here locally in Taiwan, we are seeing more and more interesting models coming out into the secondary market. Already seen Snoopy Speedmaster, AP diver (6 units already), SE Blancpain FF (new in boutique, still on the shelves) not moving. Even PAM00249 and PAM00232 is not moving.
well, we will see how things goes in the next few weeks.
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why would u do that...aint better to keep your option open...for the fun of it??
just my 2 cent
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why would u do that...aint better to keep your option open...for the fun of it??
just my 2 cent
mnazri.tan,
The fun still there, just more focused I think.
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If I have such a huge collection like Mr Hobbit has, I would do it.
I would streamline my collection into , not 1 brand, but 2 or 3 brands. This will last me a couple of years until my itchy hand wrist yearns for something else. (Note: I didn't mention better or new)
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Time to streamline. No opportunity (retiree) to rotate all the watches, so logical choice is to reduce and perhaps 'improve' the collection. Already decided that the military pieces will be going, as will most of the G-Shocks (keeping the vintage DW-5600 series). Also going some of the random pieces and also the Seiko.
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The reason and rationale for me to streamline is because watch collecting is an expensive and non-profit/loss-making hobby. To reduce losses, i decided to release some of my lesser pieces and combine a few watches' value for a single higher value watch with the hope that i dont make a heavy loss but an acceptable one or a small profit(if possible).
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The reason and rationale for me to streamline is because watch collecting is an expensive and non-profit/loss-making hobby. To reduce losses, i decided to release some of my lesser pieces and combine a few watches' value for a single higher value watch with the hope that i dont make a heavy loss but an acceptable one or a small profit(if possible).
Very good reasoning. Very same thing I am doing. But I suspect I will still end up with a handful of watches (not complaining). So far losses has not been that bad, not as bad as I thought. It helps that some of the models I am trading with seems to come a pretty good prices.
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Don't really know if I want more Panerai. I do want to get the Destro and a base, so the PAM00219 will answer both the needs. So perhaps one more. Anyway, prices does not seem to be holding out well for Panerai. I guess it is bottoming out. Even LE/ SE are staying on the shelves longer. The 'slowdown' and uncertainty in the market is not helping. Like I said in another post, here locally in Taiwan, we are seeing more and more interesting models coming out into the secondary market. Already seen Snoopy Speedmaster, AP diver (6 units already), SE Blancpain FF (new in boutique, still on the shelves) not moving. Even PAM00249 and PAM00232 is not moving.
well, we will see how things goes in the next few weeks.
i can't speak for the rest, but the PAM 249 and PAM 232 asking prices are really high now compared to what they used to retail at. now forgetting all new SE/LE which are launching this past few months.
Panerai is really making a lot of new watches and especially new SE/LE.
So i guess it's reasonable that consumers hold out on the "older" SEs and wait for new ones (the usual wait and see effect).
BTW, i don't think a 219 would answer your question. I've had it for awhile, not vintage enough.
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i can't speak for the rest, but the PAM 249 and PAM 232 asking prices are really high now compared to what they used to retail at. now forgetting all new SE/LE which are launching this past few months.
Panerai is really making a lot of new watches and especially new SE/LE.
So i guess it's reasonable that consumers hold out on the "older" SEs and wait for new ones (the usual wait and see effect).
BTW, i don't think a 219 would answer your question. I've had it for awhile, not vintage enough.
dsiewmy,
You will be surprised what are the going prices for the PAM00249 and PAM00232 here. I got the PAM00243I are a price that friends and fellow collectors are going 'Really? but it is 243I?' Anyway, perhaps this only applies to Taiwan.
As for the PAM00219, I am not really to concern about it being vintage or not. Just want to get a Destro and am not willing to pay the asking price for the PAM00115 or dare I even consider the PAM00022 and get a base model (was told that it is not complete if don't have base and logo). So the PAM00219 checks all the boxes, Destro - check, base - check, logo - don't really like the logo (but who knows).....
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i can't speak for the rest, but the PAM 249 and PAM 232 asking prices are really high now compared to what they used to retail at. now forgetting all new SE/LE which are launching this past few months.
Panerai is really making a lot of new watches and especially new SE/LE.
So i guess it's reasonable that consumers hold out on the "older" SEs and wait for new ones (the usual wait and see effect).
BTW, i don't think a 219 would answer your question. I've had it for awhile, not vintage enough.
dsiewmy,
You will be surprised what are the going prices for the PAM00249 and PAM00232 here. I got the PAM00243I are a price that friends and fellow collectors are going 'Really? but it is 243I?' Anyway, perhaps this only applies to Taiwan.
As for the PAM00219, I am not really to concern about it being vintage or not. Just want to get a Destro and am not willing to pay the asking price for the PAM00115 or dare I even consider the PAM00022 and get a base model (was told that it is not complete if don't have base and logo). So the PAM00219 checks all the boxes, Destro - check, base - check, logo - don't really like the logo (but who knows).....
may i know what are the 249 and 232 going for now? pm me.
as for the 219, although a base but it's lacking something, which i cannot explain what.
what about considering the 26K? its destro and also a pvd, do you have a pvd in your collection?
logo is really not for everybody, only the real purist risti i believe.
but have u seen a 360 in person? the logo really completes the balance of the dial.
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Hobbs... It is logical to streamline your collection as I doubt that you have time to rotate thru all of them.
There are bound to be some redundant ones sitting around not getting any love... why not pass it on to someone who will enjoy it and give it the time she deserves?
And while streamlining, you actually get funds to upgrade you collection.
I would do it... if you are concentrating on 2-4 brands, I think it would be great.
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Mind to pm me me going price for PAM249, PAM232 and your PAM243 as well? Thanks. As an owner of a PAM219, i'd agree it'd would check all your requirements for a destro and a base model. They are going for a good price nowadays also. Look out for the older series like the J series.
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may i know what are the 249 and 232 going for now? pm me.
as for the 219, although a base but it's lacking something, which i cannot explain what.
what about considering the 26K? its destro and also a pvd, do you have a pvd in your collection?
logo is really not for everybody, only the real purist risti i believe.
but have u seen a 360 in person? the logo really completes the balance of the dial.
G.MAC, dsiewmy,
PM sent.
dsiewmy,
I have considered a PVD for my collection. At the present moment I cannot justify the cost of a PVD, hence I don't think I will get one. I have seen the PAM00360 and yes it is nice. Congrats to those who got it. That is the reason why, although I am on the list for the PAM00390 (like I am going to be lucky enough to get one), I am still out on it as the dial does not look 'balanced' with the 'Luminor and Panerai' on the upper half of the dial and nothing on the lower half. Same goes for the PAM00372 (being a sour puss because it is so expensive). So the PAM00219 will do. It does look balance.
I would prefer the PAM00115 or PAM00022 or PAM00026 or PAM00056 or PAM00117 or for that matter PAM00217, but I have to be realistic and work within my budget.
I have been fortunate enough to be able to afford and dabble in collecting watches and have my current collection. The question I ask myself is do I still want to focus on just Panerai and perhaps 'lose' out on the joys of owning other brands? Isn't what I have at the moment enough? Anyway, I know that there will be another round of 'culling' once the kids grow up and there is a need to finance their education. But we will cross that bridge if and when it appears.
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Wow, even the Master Sifu is thinking of down to Single brand, the PAM. I am just curious why PAM? find it fascinating that most of the WIS like to get at least 1 PAM in their collection? Just wonder.....hmm...
P/S : I never understood PAM :Blue:
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Its difficult to cut down to single brands because the designs of the one that you like is also similarly transferred to the next latest model from the same brand. So, the vicious circles continue until one day you realized that you actually have more than a couple of watches from the same marquee.
I for one will try to go for variety regardless of marque. For example, purpose built watches eg..divers, sports, adventures, dress etc..which then branch out to mechanicals, automatics, quartz, anti-magnetic, kinetic, and hopefully a tourbillion ...
Would I give them up ....? depends on my needs of the moment...
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I wish more people do not understand PAM. That way, I can obtain an SE without contending with a premium price. Sadly this is not the case. Am still waiting to own a SE PAM.
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G.MAC,
Sadly there are a lot of people who do not understand PAM but get one just because (at the moment) it is the watch to have. I appreciate those who do not understand the attraction of a large watch with basic simple dial and 3 hands. What I don't appreciate are people in the first line. Like I said, I have a friend who bought a Destro (left hander) for over RM26,000 and ask why the crown is on the wrong side. And ask if it can be corrected.
My wife never understood the watch as well until she got one over the weekend. It is just simple, plain, easy to read, yet has an air of quality (build quality).
I too am waiting for a proper SE. Yes I know I have the PAM00367 but it does not have the big box and cert.
siodee,
I like Panerai because of its history. I like the watch because it is simple and functional (hence I only collect watches in the Historic collection save one, the PAM00243). It is (was) a bold watch with its crown guard. I just like the watches. I like the fact that they produced watches in small quantities (not anymore) and was a secret until 1997/ 1998. It use to be exclusive because not many knew about the brand. Sadly it is now exclusive due to the price.
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G.MAC,
Sadly there are a lot of people who do not understand PAM but get one just because (at the moment) it is the watch to have. I appreciate those who do not understand the attraction of a large watch with basic simple dial and 3 hands. What I don't appreciate are people in the first line. Like I said, I have a friend who bought a Destro (left hander) for over RM26,000 and ask why the crown is on the wrong side. And ask if it can be corrected.
Funny enough i have a friend like that too. He even asked why the price is so expensive for a watch that is wrongly assembled and black in colour. When i asked why he bought it, he said his peers were talking about Panerai so he went to the boutique and hentam the only PAM there which happens to be PAM0026. And he sold it off already to bring in funds soon after.
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P/S : I never understood PAM :Blue:
Siodee.... same here... maybe one of these days I will get a sterile homage to see if I can feel the allure of PAMs... ;D
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Siodee.... same here... maybe one of these days I will get a sterile homage to see if I can feel the allure of PAMs... ;D
hanz079,
Firstly, hope the damage to the house was not too bad. Happy to know that there were no injuries.
Secondly, why Panerai? Well, it is because of the clean lines, simple design and stunning detail. It is a 'Rolex' on leather straps (flame suit on). Rolex on bracelet is what Panerai is on leather strap. Just change the strap and you have a new watch. Ease of strap change, just screw out the pins and change (not into the new quick release mechanism). You need to wear one and you will know.
Peiseh,
I am not going totally one brand but it will form the core of the collection. I still love Rolex (still trying to pull the trigger on a 14060 or 14060M or 5513), Tudor and Omega. I do like specific models from certain brands like the Aerospace from Breitling, the Type XX from Breguet, the U1 from Sinn, Stingray 50 from MKII, the SAR and JSAR from Marathon, the LLD from Longines, the Mk XV from IWC (vintage Aquatimer is also calling) and even the 'lowly' G-Shock (vintage DW-5200 and DW-5600C). So these will fill my purpose built watches need.
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Will PAM become a trend or fashion just for a period of time? cause it seems like PAM is being "Goreng" in the market and the price is like crazy?
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Will PAM become a trend or fashion just for a period of time? cause it seems like PAM is being "Goreng" in the market and the price is like crazy?
siodee,
Personally I hope it does and it can go back to being reasonably priced and collectors (real ones) can get the models they want and like. But the reality is I don't think so. Many nay sayers have predicted the 'death' of Panerai many times, but it is still going strong. However with that said, I think the prices of pre-loved Panerai have stabilised, even for hard to get models (well overseas anyway). In Asia, there is still a strong demand and the prices seems to be a bit crazy.
Many collectors are also getting a bit disillusioned with the direction Panerai seems to be heading, more so with the recent SE models. So it leaves to be seen what will happen next. They still produce very little watches (about 40 to 50 k watches a year) and demand is high. But you are seeing more and model models on the shelves as compared to say 5 years ago. The demand for popular ones are still high, like for the PAM00000, PAM00005, PAM00219, PAM00210.
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Siodee.... same here... maybe one of these days I will get a sterile homage to see if I can feel the allure of PAMs... ;D
hanz079,
Firstly, hope the damage to the house was not too bad. Happy to know that there were no injuries.
Secondly, why Panerai? Well, it is because of the clean lines, simple design and stunning detail. It is a 'Rolex' on leather straps (flame suit on). Rolex on bracelet is what Panerai is on leather strap. Just change the strap and you have a new watch. Ease of strap change, just screw out the pins and change (not into the new quick release mechanism). You need to wear one and you will know.
Thanks for your concerns Hobbs... most of the damage is on the ceiling and floors...
Nothing that can't be repaired or replaced with money...
Children are a little shocked by the incident but nothing a good cuddling can't cure... ;D
As for the PAM allure... I am pretty surprised that you choose Rolex as an equal...
Yes I admit that I haven't strapped on any PAMs before but I will once I see my brother in law... he is wearing a PAM...
I understand the versatility of the PAMs... someone on another forum have like 2 PAMs but more than 30 straps!!
Seems like alot of ppl are in it as it is "the" watch to buy at the moment...
The high prices seems to point at Richemond milking it for what it's worth... can't blame them... they are after all a business...
Will PAM become a trend or fashion just for a period of time? cause it seems like PAM is being "Goreng" in the market and the price is like crazy?
Price is like crazy because there are ppl willing to pay...
Nothing much that we can do there.
But it does seems like quite alot are in it just to flip and make a couple of bucks...
Some ppl dun have any access to PAMs but some do... especially those that have close relationships with the ADs...
As for "goreng"... I agree...
As for wether the trend will pass or is it a trend at all... only time will tell..
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To be frank I've been thinking a lot about PAM to a point where I am now de-queuing my list of watches to buy. Aesthetics have been a major factor. It's big no doubt, but the more I look at PAM the more alluring it gets.
But there's an odd observation: I've seen PAMs on ladies (in real life) and they're gorgeous! These are the 44mms mind you. I've seen PAM on guys (in real life) and they look rather plain and understated. It's probably because I'm used to seeing ladies wearing ladies' size watches.
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personally, if i were to choose rolex and pam, i'd go for pam, why? like other said, its simple and detail, easy reading and nice looking watch, attractive yet destreet enough (somehow it may no longer destreeted ? LOL)
i'm not too familiar with pam watch history, but seeing many changing their pam strap to enhance the look of the watch even better ! frenly speaker i love a watch because i love the see the transparent case back with moving parts behind, pam did very nice looking with their unique shape and design that attracted me a lot
sad to say i still cant affort any of the pam watch with see thru back, but i believe one day i'll get one into collection :)
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IMHO, somewhere in that love, there's a sense of not wanting to appear over-killed with a lolek, especially if you are below mid.age.
PAM is contemporary simple looking if compared with a lolek..who usually is associated with senior folks, just like a Mercedes compared with a BMW, where the former is considered uncles' car, and the BMW a younger yuppie car.
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Initially I was and is still thinking to focus on a single brand, not Panerais but Rolexes because I believe they cover almost if not all permutations in horology that I like. I have no interest in perpetuals, tourbillion, haute complication pieces anyway.
But every time I take a peek at the Chopard LUCs, UN Marines, AP ROs.. my heart skips a few beats. They offer such great deals and bargain in the preowned market. The finish, fit and passion that goes into it is quite unparalleled. Robust calibres for everyday practical use.
All I mean is that the road is long and the temptations a aplenty. To stay true is hard and all the best to your direction :thumbsup:
Anyway, having owned and is still owning one Pam, I am not impressed with the price, build and the offer that it is giving. Panerais is not discreet and its the opposite. But who am I to question passion? Omega's new 8500 PO is by far a better watch than the previous model Sub, but yet I would rather live with a Sub. To each their own I guess.
I always do wonder, do u get cheaper ebauches if u order a 7750 without the chrono modules?
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I think there is nothing wrong for a young guy to wear rolex at all. It is up to the person what watch he wants to wear. Should a 50+ year old man wearing a g shock be labelled as " sudah tua tapi masih mau mengaku muda"? I am in my mid- twenties and I am wearing a rolex. Like bro terrence says to each their own. Just be proud on what is around your wrist.
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Initially I was and is still thinking to focus on a single brand, not Panerais but Rolexes because I believe they cover almost if not all permutations in horology that I like. I have no interest in perpetuals, tourbillion, haute complication pieces anyway.
But every time I take a peek at the Chopard LUCs, UN Marines, AP ROs.. my heart skips a few beats. They offer such great deals and bargain in the preowned market. The finish, fit and passion that goes into it is quite unparalleled. Robust calibres for everyday practical use.
All I mean is that the road is long and the temptations a aplenty. To stay true is hard and all the best to your direction :thumbsup:
Anyway, having owned and is still owning one Pam, I am not impressed with the price, build and the offer that it is giving. Panerais is not discreet and its the opposite. But who am I to question passion? Omega's new 8500 PO is by far a better watch than the previous model Sub, but yet I would rather live with a Sub. To each their own I guess.
I always do wonder, do u get cheaper ebauches if u order a 7750 without the chrono modules?
terrenceterrence,
It was also in my mind to swing and make Rolex the core of my collection. Saying that I don't really like the cyclops on the Rolex. That in itself has limited the selection available to me, with the likes of the Submariner, DeepSea SeaDweller, Milgauss and Daytona. I already have the SeaDweller and the GMT Master and the DSSD does not do it for me neither does the Milgauss nor does the Daytona.
As for my future direction and future temptations, I have to say that I will stay fast and steady. Even collecting Panerai will come to an end soon. I am looking at a Destro and a base and maybe a logo. The PAM00219 answers the Destro and base need. The logo? Maybe yes maybe no as I am not really into the logo. We will have to see.
I have been shown a number of interesting pieces at very interesting prices (by my so call friends, with them you don't need enemies), but the watches did not hold any interest. Even the recent trip to HK did not spark any interest. I actually walked past Heritage 1881 without visiting any of the watch shops there. Same along Nathan Road. The only shop I did actually stop was the Panerai Boutique at Canton Road and that caused a huge dent in the wallet..... :)
I have been 'collecting' watches for about 20 years now and I think the interest may not be as strong now as it was before. I still do buy and subscribe to watch magazines (in English, Japanese and Chinese, but can only read English), I still do read books on watches, having just picked up the latest edition of the book 'Wristwatches' by Gisbert L. Brunner and Christian Pfeiffer-Belli. I still write my blog. I still visit watch forums (actually MWF and MWR are the only two I visit nowadays).
Yes there are a number of pieces I would still like to get, but at the same time, I don't seem to be able to justify getting them. I would still want to get an Omega Moon watch, I would still like to get a German watch (with a German made movement) and I would still like to get an AP Royal Oak Chrono (none of the ROO stuff). But as time (pun not intended) goes by, the need seems to dwindle.
At the moment my collection stand at these watches (those that I have confirm I will not cull from the collection):
Panerai
PAM00003
PAM00111
PAM00183
PAM00243
PAM00337
PAM00367
Rolex
GMT Master
SeaDweller 4000
Omega
X-33
Seamaster Chrono Professional
Breitling
Aerospace
Sinn
U1 Lemon
Breguet
Type XX Transatlantique
Tutima
Military NATO Chronograph TL
Tudor
Heritage Chrono
Snowflake
IWC
Mk XV
Mk XV Spitfire Limited Edition
Hamilton
G10 RAF issued
Marathon
SAR
JSAR
MKII
Stingray 50
Precista
G10 RAF issued
Seiko
Orange Monster
SKX007
That is a grand total of 25 watches. Plenty for 2 wrist don't you think so? Time to stop I think.
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I think there is nothing wrong for a young guy to wear rolex at all. It is up to the person what watch he wants to wear. Should a 50+ year old man wearing a g shock be labelled as " sudah tua tapi masih mau mengaku muda"? I am in my mid- twenties and I am wearing a rolex. Like bro terrence says to each their own. Just be proud on what is around your wrist.
Well in my opinion its ok for young man to wear rolex provided he is not showing off and know the stuff inside the watch instead of knowing only it bear the rolex logo.
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A person who is gunning for a single brand is a person who knows what he wants and what he wants to achieve for his collection. There is nothing wrong with going for a single brand. 25 watches may seem like too many but for a collector or a WIS, there is no such thing as too many :Laughing_on_floor:. As for wearing a rolex, i dont think it is the watch that helps him to show off. A showy person will show off with anything and not necessarily a rolex. As long as it is expensive or can be perceived to be expensive. As for knowledge, i know those who comment badly on lesser-known brands such as glycine, seiko, tissot, bell & ross with their minute knowledge. These are the 'tin kosong'.Everything only rolex or omega. Those that know a lot are very far and few in between. It seems that knowing a lot doesnt really help as I realise it is more for personal knowledge and self-satisfaction. I got a friend who buys watches by brands and when adviced by me, his retort is, " aiya, what is so great about movement, power reserve, frequency, COSC,accuracy?. This is solid gold... You busybody for what? Jealous ah?" From then on i just keep the knowledge to myself. :Blue:
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A person who is gunning for a single brand is a person who knows what he wants and what he wants to achieve for his collection. There is nothing wrong with going for a single brand. 25 watches may seem like too many but for a collector or a WIS, there is no such thing as too many :Laughing_on_floor:. As for wearing a rolex, i dont think it is the watch that helps him to show off. A showy person will show off with anything and not necessarily a rolex. As long as it is expensive or can be perceived to be expensive. As for knowledge, i know those who comment badly on lesser-known brands such as glycine, seiko, tissot, bell & ross with their minute knowledge. These are the 'tin kosong'.Everything only rolex or omega. Those that know a lot are very far and few in between. It seems that knowing a lot doesnt really help as I realise it is more for personal knowledge and self-satisfaction. I got a friend who buys watches by brands and when adviced by me, his retort is, " aiya, what is so great about movement, power reserve, frequency, COSC,accuracy?. This is solid gold... You busybody for what? Jealous ah?" From then on i just keep the knowledge to myself. :Blue:
Lol i met some ppl like this too... We can do a thread abt these ppl if we want to... Sigh better to keep to ppl with like minded. No point sharing with ppl who care abt brand only.... I got ppl told me what the heck so nice abt seiko.... ??? ???
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Brand is important despite the contention that it is not. Knowing the mechanics in detail is not a must to appreciate the watch. A WIS is not necessary a person who forgo brand and concentrate on the movement alone. Aesthetic, brand, movement, finishing and a myriad of other factors make up the art of appreciating watches. Some people choose a combination of factors; some just based on a single factor.
It is not wrong if there are people who appreciate the watch because of the brand or cost. Simply put it, there are many ways a person can appreciate a watch. As with all watch forums, people congregate to exchange ideas about watches, not to condemn each other's way of appreciating something. Hence, we should refrain from vilifying people who appreciate watches from the brand or cost angle alone.
To each his own - there is no right or wrong. My 2 cents worth of thoughts.
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lilpronaz,
Interesting insight you have put forward. I don't think the comment were vilifying people who appreciate watches from the brand or cost angle but rather the opposite. The message being put across is that there are people who buys watches based on brand but don't know why they are buying it. Also there are those who knows only a particular brand and seems to think that the brand is the best at what they do and lesser brands or cheaper watches are inferior.
It is sad when you meet up with people who buys a watch but have no knowledge of why they bought a watch, but bought it because it is the trend or the in watch at the moment. There are many such instance. I have a friend that says bad things about the German brand Nomos. Why? Because it is cheap. He claims that they do not make their own movement but buys them from ETA, unlike Sinn. You tell them otherwise and he still does not believe you because how can it be done at that price?
I have friends (collectors no less) that would readily put down brand like Glycine, Tutima, Oris or any lesser known brand against brand like Rolex. Really? When you ask them what they know about Tutima, they say it is a lousy brand that makes lousy watches. Well, if Tutima did not exist we may not have had the revival of A. Lange & Sohne.
As you said, it is not wrong to appreciate watches based on brands or cost, but at least do not put down other brands as a lesser brand or cheaper watches as bad watches. I showed a friend recently a MKII watch. He was pretty impressed until he found out the watch cost slightly less then RM2K. Immediately he said the watch must have some problems as it is too cheap. Sad isn't it?
Additionally, if you appreciate a watch based on the brand, should you at least know a little about the brand? Case in point (the usual one I use), friend buy a destro Panerai. Pays RM26K for the watch. First person he comes to after buying the watch is me. He ask why the crown on the wrong side? Can it be repaired? I ask him, why did you buy the watch? He say that he likes the brand. I ask him, did you ask the guy who sold you the watch why the crown is on the wrong side. He says no, malu people will think he does not know about the brand. It is this type of people that we are 'vilifying'.
Another case in point. Another friend ask me to go with him to buy a watch. We go into the boutique and he say he would like to buy a diver watch. The SA ask if he wants the Submariner or the SeaDweller. He say no he wants an Explorer II. The SA tells him the the Explorer II is not a diving watch. My friend says it is as he knows a lot about Rolex as it is his favourite brand.
I could go on and on but I hope you get what I am getting at. Brand is important, no doubt about it. If not Rolex, PP, AP, Panerai, Seiko, Casio would not be able to sell their watches. But there is a need to know a bit more then just being able to reel off brand names but with little or no knowledge about the brand. Also price does not relate to quality.
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don't stop, 6 more to go :thumbsup:
then you can have 1 watch per day for a whole month.
mine currently at 7. (24 more to go) - hopefully 1 add-on per year.
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I think there is nothing wrong for a young guy to wear rolex at all. It is up to the person what watch he wants to wear. Should a 50+ year old man wearing a g shock be labelled as " sudah tua tapi masih mau mengaku muda"? I am in my mid- twenties and I am wearing a rolex. Like bro terrence says to each their own. Just be proud on what is around your wrist.
Well in my opinion its ok for young man to wear rolex provided he is not showing off and know the stuff inside the watch instead of knowing only it bear the rolex logo.
Agreed with Gigi's comment. :thumbsup:
Lol i met some ppl like this too... We can do a thread abt these ppl if we want to... Sigh better to keep to ppl with like minded. No point sharing with ppl who care abt brand only.... I got ppl told me what the heck so nice abt seiko....
If this people meet Seiko's fans, then they will get " Seiko is nice, got their own inhouse mevement. Price also caters to lower end up to premium prices. And ..... etc"
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lilpronaz,
Interesting insight you have put forward. I don't think the comment were vilifying people who appreciate watches from the brand or cost angle but rather the opposite. The message being put across is that there are people who buys watches based on brand but don't know why they are buying it. Also there are those who knows only a particular brand and seems to think that the brand is the best at what they do and lesser brands or cheaper watches are inferior.
It is sad when you meet up with people who buys a watch but have no knowledge of why they bought a watch, but bought it because it is the trend or the in watch at the moment. There are many such instance. I have a friend that says bad things about the German brand Nomos. Why? Because it is cheap. He claims that they do not make their own movement but buys them from ETA, unlike Sinn. You tell them otherwise and he still does not believe you because how can it be done at that price?
I have friends (collectors no less) that would readily put down brand like Glycine, Tutima, Oris or any lesser known brand against brand like Rolex. Really? When you ask them what they know about Tutima, they say it is a lousy brand that makes lousy watches. Well, if Tutima did not exist we may not have had the revival of A. Lange & Sohne.
As you said, it is not wrong to appreciate watches based on brands or cost, but at least do not put down other brands as a lesser brand or cheaper watches as bad watches. I showed a friend recently a MKII watch. He was pretty impressed until he found out the watch cost slightly less then RM2K. Immediately he said the watch must have some problems as it is too cheap. Sad isn't it?
Additionally, if you appreciate a watch based on the brand, should you at least know a little about the brand? Case in point (the usual one I use), friend buy a destro Panerai. Pays RM26K for the watch. First person he comes to after buying the watch is me. He ask why the crown on the wrong side? Can it be repaired? I ask him, why did you buy the watch? He say that he likes the brand. I ask him, did you ask the guy who sold you the watch why the crown is on the wrong side. He says no, malu people will think he does not know about the brand. It is this type of people that we are 'vilifying'.
Another case in point. Another friend ask me to go with him to buy a watch. We go into the boutique and he say he would like to buy a diver watch. The SA ask if he wants the Submariner or the SeaDweller. He say no he wants an Explorer II. The SA tells him the the Explorer II is not a diving watch. My friend says it is as he knows a lot about Rolex as it is his favourite brand.
I could go on and on but I hope you get what I am getting at. Brand is important, no doubt about it. If not Rolex, PP, AP, Panerai, Seiko, Casio would not be able to sell their watches. But there is a need to know a bit more then just being able to reel off brand names but with little or no knowledge about the brand. Also price does not relate to quality.
Well said :thumbsup:, coincidentally, I also bump into some of this people. Because each individual is different, that is why it is so interesting to study the human behavior. I must say there is no right and wrong, just different preference. And partly due to that, that is why forum become a place to share the thoughts, and I like to keep it up that way, so we can see some interesting story... :thumbsup:
Just my 25 cents, I skip 24, because not a nice number
P/S : Likewise, I think the yellow baju kurung is Hot, but majority think otherwise :Laughing_on_floor:
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"Also there are those who knows only a particular brand and seems to think that the brand is the best at what they do and lesser brands or cheaper watches are inferior. "
"It is sad when you meet up with people who buys a watch but have no knowledge of why they bought a watch, but bought it because it is the trend or the in watch at the moment."
"As you said, it is not wrong to appreciate watches based on brands or cost, but at least do not put down other brands as a lesser brand or cheaper watches as bad watches."
"Additionally, if you appreciate a watch based on the brand, should you at least know a little about the brand?"
"I could go on and on but I hope you get what I am getting at. Brand is important, no doubt about it. But there is a need to know a bit more then just being able to reel off brand names but with little or no knowledge about the brand. Also price does not relate to quality."
Mr.Hobbs, you couldn't have said it better... :thumbsup:
I personally dislike a person that is filthy rich and able to afford high end time pieces but likes to put down other brands... especially when they are attacking what you have on the wrist... :thumbsdown:
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It is not wrong if there are people who appreciate the watch because of the brand or cost. Simply put it, there are many ways a person can appreciate a watch. As with all watch forums, people congregate to exchange ideas about watches, not to condemn each other's way of appreciating something. Hence, we should refrain from vilifying people who appreciate watches from the brand or cost angle alone.
To each his own - there is no right or wrong. My 2 cents worth of thoughts.
Agreed 100%. Good comment.
Also agreed to comments from The Hobbit on some people seems to think that certain brand is the best at what they do and lesser brands or cheaper watches are inferior.
It is a sad case when you meet up with people who buys a watch but do not know the reason except following the trend or fashion. Nothing wrong with buying fashionable watches but the comment you get from some of these people is, "Why Rolex or Seikos? Their range never change one, looks always the same unlike Huga Boss or Guess watch".
100% agreed on this too: "As you said, it is not wrong to appreciate watches based on brands or cost, but at least do not put down other brands as a lesser brand or cheaper watches as bad watches."
This is Good = "Also price does not relate to quality." :thumbsup:
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Mr.Hobbs, you couldn't have said it better... :thumbsup:
I personally dislike a person that is filthy rich and able to afford high end time pieces but likes to put down other brands... especially when they are attacking what you have on the wrist... :thumbsdown:
I support this statement 110% :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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It is sad when you meet up with people who buys a watch but have no knowledge of why they bought a watch, but bought it because it is the trend or the in watch at the moment.
I showed a friend recently a MKII watch. He was pretty impressed until he found out the watch cost slightly less then RM2K. Immediately he said the watch must have some problems as it is too cheap. Sad isn't it?
Additionally, if you appreciate a watch based on the brand, should you at least know a little about the brand? Case in point (the usual one I use), friend buy a destro Panerai. Pays RM26K for the watch. First person he comes to after buying the watch is me. He ask why the crown on the wrong side?
Hobbit, yes, I may have misinterpreted some of the points in the thread and may have prematurely formed a wrong conclusion in presenting my thoughts. You have presented some interesting cases which I couldn't help laughing out loud when reading it. Although your acquaintances/friends are hilarious in their skewed perception of branding and product recognition, they are not alone as there are many similar people out there aka layman. As for me, I rather not reproach them even if the person may put across a silly notion about the watch brand, etc. No point breaking a sweat to educate them or getting upset if those ignorant fools are not willing to listen.
As the saying goes, "to err is human, to forgive is divine". Just let them be :)
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It is sad when you meet up with people who buys a watch but have no knowledge of why they bought a watch, but bought it because it is the trend or the in watch at the moment. There are many such instance. I have a friend that says bad things about the German brand Nomos. Why? Because it is cheap. He claims that they do not make their own movement but buys them from ETA, unlike Sinn. You tell them otherwise and he still does not believe you because how can it be done at that price?
Unfortunately for these types of people, the problem lies in ignorance, but it is not their fault entirely. The most prevalent deciding factor that I can think of when these types of people buy watches are based on the power of advertising and brand perception. Advertising terms such as "a crown for every achievement", "watches for the very few since...", "follow your conviction", "individually crafted", "a racing machine on the wrist", etc are good at getting attention, heightening interest, and creating desire. Above all - desire. Now, splash a pretty face, a world class ambassador, an unknown explorer you've never heard of but who looks like he can conquer Mt Everest with just a can of mackerel as food ration - just because he can: double the desire.
The point is - as a WIS, and groups of people who knows watches, we should take the higher ground and educate them. I guess that's what this forum and countless others are for.
--mel
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It is sad when you meet up with people who buys a watch but have no knowledge of why they bought a watch, but bought it because it is the trend or the in watch at the moment. There are many such instance. I have a friend that says bad things about the German brand Nomos. Why? Because it is cheap. He claims that they do not make their own movement but buys them from ETA, unlike Sinn. You tell them otherwise and he still does not believe you because how can it be done at that price?
Unfortunately for these types of people, the problem lies in ignorance, but it is not their fault entirely. The most prevalent deciding factor that I can think of when these types of people buy watches are based on the power of advertising and brand perception. Advertising terms such as "a crown for every achievement", "watches for the very few since...", "follow your conviction", "individually crafted", "a racing machine on the wrist", etc are good at getting attention, heightening interest, and creating desire. Above all - desire. Now, splash a pretty face, a world class ambassador, an unknown explorer you've never heard of but who looks like he can conquer Mt Everest with just a can of mackerel as food ration - just because he can: double the desire.
The point is - as a WIS, and groups of people who knows watches, we should take the higher ground and educate them. I guess that's what this forum and countless others are for.
--mel
Problem lies in the hard headedness of some rich snobs who has an ego of a tanker that refused to listen to anything other ppl has to say...
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Problem lies in the hard headedness of some rich snobs who has an ego of a tanker that refused to listen to anything other ppl has to say...
Which reminds me of another advertisement with the statement: "the ego has landed" :)
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The point is - as a WIS, and groups of people who knows watches, we should take the higher ground and educate them. I guess that's what this forum and countless others are for.
--mel
True, education about horology is good.
Am also learning new things in MWF.
What hanz mentioned about stubborness by the non-WIS also hold true.
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Problem lies in the hard headedness of some rich snobs who has an ego of a tanker that refused to listen to anything other ppl has to say...
Which reminds me of another advertisement with the statement: "the ego has landed" :)
Not all are like that, some willing to listen and learn, but there some like what have mentioned here, Ego is big, in return, he/she will say that " that is why you still sit in office and can't effort it...." :Blue:, no point argue, cause it is not my lost... ;D
P/S: Come to think about it, damn, he/ she is right, I am sitting in office :Blue:
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Sigh...... fallen for the trap again......... Should have just stayed home.
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Sigh...... fallen for the trap again......... Should have just stayed home.
You mean you just get another PAM?? wow :o
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Boutiques model? 41x?
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Nope, will post it when I get it. It is what I consider 'anti-panerai' DNA.
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Must be a submersible.
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Nope, will post it when I get it. It is what I consider 'anti-panerai' DNA.
anti panerai DNA, either chrono or something non-base or non-simple.
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Anti-DNA = smaller chrono? We always know u wanted that one badly
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terrenceterrence, dsiewmy,
Both of you guys are correct. Smaller chrono in the PAM00072 or PAM000074. Have not decided. Most likely PAM00072. So why 'anti-Panerai'?
1. It bucks the current trend of going bigger.
2. It is 40mm, not 44 mm.
3. It comes with the metal bracelet, against the standard leather strap.
4. 22 mm lugs vs 24 mm lugs.
5. 200 M vs. 300 M water resistance rating.
6. And as pointed by both terrenceterrence and dsiewmy, it goes against the basic and simple Panerai dial.
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well hobbs, going against trend will be harsh (if u wish to let it go later).
but if u buy them cheap now, well, maybe not that harsh.
anyway, there are pam chronos that i like, the pam 225 and 187. they are beautiful in flesh.
anyway, it's still a hobby, so buy what u like.
btw, my wrist r small, but after a 44mm, i can't take 40mm anymore.
even a daytona or GMT2c looks far too small.
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well hobbs, going against trend will be harsh (if u wish to let it go later).
but if u buy them cheap now, well, maybe not that harsh.
anyway, there are pam chronos that i like, the pam 225 and 187. they are beautiful in flesh.
anyway, it's still a hobby, so buy what u like.
btw, my wrist r small, but after a 44mm, i can't take 40mm anymore.
even a daytona or GMT2c looks far too small.
After all the effort ended up with one that comes in a blue box.
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Got this.
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/L1060596.jpg)
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/L1060598.jpg)
First 'real' SE, hope not the last. Was suppose to get the PAM00072 but could not justify the price. As much as I like the watch, I could not justify the watch. There was the PAM00074 but there were minor issues with the watch that made me a tad uncomfortable with it. Slept on it and decided that I would not go with the PAM00072.
Had a look and saw this. Watch was in a brilliant condition at an even more brilliant price. More so a SE and I do have the National Geo Atlas signed by Mike Horn. Decided to get my first (second) SE and complete the package. Comes in a special blue box. Sadly no outer brown box, but no worries. Gave up the IWC Mk XV and XV Spitfire SE. So replace one SE with another.
On the way back, stopped by James's place and got the black ammo strap. Happy I am.
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I guessed right. It is a submersible. Nice catch bro :thumbsup:. Mind to pm me the damage?
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Nice catch, TheHobbit :thumbsup:
What is the basel with characters E, S, W & N for .......... compass function or what?
zitan,
yes sir, for compass function.
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Thanks, TheHobbit. Btw, I am not sir leh, just ikan bilis :thumbsup:
zitan,
Ikan bilis or not, a sir is still a sir.
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Nice catch there, TheHobbit ! :thumbsup:
The strap is very matching.
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Got this.
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/L1060596.jpg)
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn322/TheHobbit_01/Collection/L1060598.jpg)
First 'real' SE, hope not the last. Was suppose to get the PAM00072 but could not justify the price. As much as I like the watch, I could not justify the watch. There was the PAM00074 but there were minor issues with the watch that made me a tad uncomfortable with it. Slept on it and decided that I would not go with the PAM00072.
Had a look and saw this. Watch was in a brilliant condition at an even more brilliant price. More so a SE and I do have the National Geo Atlas signed by Mike Horn. Decided to get my first (second) SE and complete the package. Comes in a special blue box. Sadly no outer brown box, but no worries. Gave up the IWC Mk XV and XV Spitfire SE. So replace one SE with another.
On the way back, stopped by James's place and got the black ammo strap. Happy I am.
NICEEEEE BRO!!!! good catch.
the PAM 92 is one of the best mike horn editions i reckon. (i got no love for depth gauges).
this is one hell of a PAM :) although DNA is not too strong but a very nice clean sub,.
very very nice. mind share what's the damage like?
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Pm sent. Am happy with it.
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:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Nice on Hobbit..
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Nice catch, seems like you are into PAM now, and dare into "Anti DNA" :thumbsup:...guess you are not buying for the sick of selling later....Perhaps some review... ;D
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Nice catch, seems like you are into PAM now, and dare into "Anti DNA" :thumbsup:...guess you are not buying for the sick of selling later....Perhaps some review... ;D
siodee,
Have always been into Panerai (in a big way). Have lots of books on Panerai as well. They use to give them away but not any more. I have the following books from them:
Panerai Historia - From the depths of the sea
Legendary Watches
The Value of Time
The Nat Geo Atlas Mike Horn Edition (Arktos Expedition) and booklet
Catalogues 1997 to 2011 (including special edition and Radiomir catalogues)
Not from Panerai
Panerai Style Book 1 and 2
Vintage Panerai - Watches with History
Panerai (hard cover book)
Lots of booklets on Panerai (English, Chinese, Japanese)
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A very rare and special find. Congratulations TheHobbit, Just wondering.....where did you get it from?
The strap is perfect!
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Congrats congrats!!! It's a good catch. Care to PM the damage?
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Nice catch, TheHobbit :thumbsup:
What is the basel with characters E, S, W & N for .......... compass function or what?
zitan,
yes sir, for compass function.
To use the bezel as a compass, point the hour hand directly towards the sun and rotate the
bezel so that the index marked N for north is positioned halfway between the hour hand
and the 12 on the dial. This indicates the direction of true north.
"Why not just use a compass? The reason is because of ‘inclination’. Inclination is the angle of pull down toward the Earth that the magnetic field exerts on a compass needle. As one travels closer to the magnetic North Pole, this pull gets stronger and renders a compass unreliable for several hundreds of miles around the magnetic poles. Hundreds of miles beyond that, they can be erratic."
Source from watchprosite.
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Well, well.. you learn something new everyday. Never knew a watch could function as a compass. That being said, using the same method as above, all watches can be used as a compass? Using some imagination if course..
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A very rare and special find. Congratulations TheHobbit, Just wondering.....where did you get it from?
The strap is perfect!
cd32815,
I got it locally here in Taiwan. I do like the strap as well, but it is a bit thick. Waiting for it to soften up.
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congrats Hobbit....looks like the watch found a good owner...
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Well, well.. you learn something new everyday. Never knew a watch could function as a compass. That being said, using the same method as above, all watches can be used as a compass? Using some imagination if course..
Hellkite,
You can do the same with the GMT Master (and I guess the GMT Master II and IIc).
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Thank you all for the kind words. Tomorrow I will be putting my name down for the PAM00219.
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Have fun growing your collection!
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As you guys amy or may not know, I am currently streamlining my collection. On of the things that have been playing in my mind is to go single brands. That does not mean that I will not keep some of the other watches, but the focus would be biased towards a single brand. I was thinking of going all Panerai and keeping the Rolex (GMT Master and SeaDweller), Tudor (Heritage Chrono, Snowflake, Date Day and Date), Breguet Type XX, Sinn U1 Lemon, Omega X-33, Breitling Aerospace and the IWC Mk XV and Mk XV Spitfire Limited Edition. That would mean giving up all the military watches, the Omega SM300, Omega 2254 and the Seamaster Chrono, Longines WWW and Legend Diver and others.
Would you do it?
My wife gave me a very simple rule: after all the expenses (including savings) have been made, i am allowed to indulge in any fantasy (excluding new love interest, dangerous sports, gambling or anything that can do harm to body and soul). The only gain you get out of any hobby is personal satisfaction. Seldom you can make money out of it. Therefore, you should treat it as an expense out of disposable income.
If a brand appeals to you, by all mean indulge in that brand.
What appeals to me is the technology and design. In fact, I categorise my collection more on the functionality instead of brands. For example:
Automatic: military, pilot, diver, dress, GMT,
Quartz: heart rate/sports, chrono
Solar: analog