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Main Forums => General Discussion - Modern Watches => Topic started by: chiewata on July 20, 2015, 03:41:02 PM

Title: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: chiewata on July 20, 2015, 03:41:02 PM
Guys I stumbled upon this webpage who give and in depth report on the current state of fake watch industry in China it detailed out the entire process from casing all the way to movement, its quite shocking actually, but unfortunately this article is in chinese so you guys might need the help of google translator, however there's tonnes of images to see too.

http://wechat.fingerdaily.com/thread-40896-1-1.html (http://wechat.fingerdaily.com/thread-40896-1-1.html)

Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: Narco on July 20, 2015, 03:54:01 PM
Whoaaa!!
Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: kenji1903 on July 20, 2015, 04:00:45 PM
no idea what's google translate trying to translate but based on the pictures... just 1 word, "WOW"
Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: Yoda on July 20, 2015, 05:15:44 PM
I open through the Mozilla it translated.

Interesting. Would have suspected long ago.

The mainland Chinese can produced anything for the $$$

They are digging themselves a big grave sooner.

God bless them
Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: rnsm1979 on July 20, 2015, 05:44:40 PM
speechless !!!
Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: dennis.T on July 20, 2015, 05:51:36 PM
U can produce any watch you want :p
Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: chiewata on July 20, 2015, 06:34:50 PM
For those who still can't make some sense from Google Translator here's a brief summary:

In a nut shell this article pointed out that these fakes are not produced by cottage industries instead its "legally" produced by many large OEM factories that have the technology to produced high quality parts of almost all the major brands in the market.

They are legal because all the parts produced does not have any brand or logo attached not until all the components reached the "coordinator" where it will be assembled, fitted with modified Seagulls movements then engraved with the brand logo and dial will be printed. As you can see the whole process up till only the final part is "illegal".

Some notable advancement of the fakes include the capabilities to reproduced the Cotes de Geneve which up till few years ago used to determine the authenticity of some watches. 

This article also claimed that even the intricately engraved PAM604 also being reproduced successfully.


Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: chiewata on July 20, 2015, 06:37:25 PM
BTW the Pelagos and BB is gorgeous, I don't mind it fitted with Seagull's movement actually  :Laughing_on_floor:
Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: Spider boy on July 21, 2015, 07:07:49 AM
My gosh , China is incredible.. they are really capable of everything..for the worst or best possible thing. I am really curious and would love to see and feel the product in person . Wonder how it compares to the real ones. If it is really like what it claimed, then it's going to ruin the whole watch industry and it will never be the same again.
Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: meoramri on July 21, 2015, 08:37:36 AM
Here's the link to the translated page https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwechat.fingerdaily.com%2Fthread-40896-1-1.html (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwechat.fingerdaily.com%2Fthread-40896-1-1.html)

IP law is very misleading. International convention states that an IP right only exist if registered in the locality. i.e. if you register your IP in US or Europe, you are the beneficial owner in those two location but not in the rest of the world.

Trying to register IP is a very long and financially painful process. Moreover, IP registration requires detail drawings and this can be easily obtained by anyone from the respective patent office. Once translated into computers and hooked up to computer added manufacturing facilities - the rest is history....


Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: chrisyen on July 21, 2015, 08:58:28 AM
the investor is so brave...

basically he buy genuine brand new watch
dissemble it

re produce n draw part by part...
get dial factory to do dial
bracelet factory to do bracelet
case factory to do case - ceramic, titanium, bronze...
hands factory to do hands
bezel factory company to do bezel insert
etc, but all done without logo, hence no IP issue

all these factories are belongs to big big firm, so as long as u ask them to do without logo and brand name, they can go through their audit
after all that, investor get small factory to do those laser printing of brand, making logo...

movement are china made... eg - seagull is cloning most eta... hence u see them alot! 
those entry level swiss brand fitted with unfinish movement / less finish movement.... the Grade AAA replica will be hard to differentiate the different, u might need to check the laser print and logo which mostly done by smaller factory
dare to buy tissot in china?

for higher end movement, for super high grade - they even modify the movement bridges and replicate the nice rotor as well... look at the AP 3120 rotor?
with latest machinery, the cotes de geneva once the checker on finishing.... now they able to do as fine as swiss!

scary? yes...

Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: chiewata on July 21, 2015, 10:13:43 AM
Scary is a subtle statement, it sent some chill thru my spine man  :Blue:
Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: Spider boy on July 21, 2015, 12:51:02 PM
I have yet to see an AAA standard watch . I would love to see one in real, at least i want to know how well they are made and if i could actually spot the differences. Most importantly as long as the market does not sell the replicas as genuine ones than we are still ok ... i guess
Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: deriku on July 21, 2015, 01:59:45 PM
Counterfeit market exists because there is a demand for it. Is it entirely the fault of suppliers including movement makers? Seagull etc sell movements to 3rd parties as well similar to Sellita and ETA in the past. I think other than legal recourse against fakes, watch brands can perhaps collectively educate the market on the value of buying genuine. Yes the message may not resonate with every customer but at least it increases the awareness.


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Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: CKL1213 on July 21, 2015, 02:45:45 PM
I am calmly waiting China to produce fake cars.

Maybe a BMW with a china engine?

I don't think chicks will inspect your engine, gearbox and chassis number.
Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: Yoda on July 21, 2015, 03:00:22 PM
I am calmly waiting China to produce fake cars.

Maybe a BMW with a china engine?

I don't think chicks will inspect your engine, gearbox and chassis number.

Not really if I were to show off my BMW I would let them feel my gearknob, let them enjoy the silky smooth sailing 6 Speed , otherwise whats the point of showing off to the chicks  ;D
Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: CKL1213 on July 21, 2015, 03:14:07 PM
AAA grade BMW exterior, china cow skin leather seat.

To lure lala mui.
Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: kenji1903 on July 21, 2015, 03:20:10 PM
i thought there's already something similar? Evoque homage in China ;D
http://www.carnewschina.com/2014/11/28/how-much-exactly-is-the-landwind-x7-a-clone-of-the-range-rover-evoque/
(http://www.carnewschina.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/landwind-x7-vs-range-0-660x611.jpg)
Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: CKL1213 on July 21, 2015, 03:26:05 PM
Not bad, now I gotta look for the Range Rover badge
Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: deriku on July 21, 2015, 08:20:58 PM
Hm you would be surprised how far China has come in terms of technology.

Any car company that wants to sell in China needs to set up a joint venture with a local partner. Hence technology transfer etc. More than half of the luxury cars sold here are manufactured locally, and they are already the largest auto market in the world. Yeah there are some bad hats who blatantly copy, but I would not be surprised if one day Chinese tech surpasses the Germans.

My point is China is not all cheap mass production. They can make some quality stuff too (if you know where to look).


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Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: deriku on July 21, 2015, 08:23:10 PM

AAA grade BMW exterior, china cow skin leather seat.

To lure lala mui.
Would it surprise you if I were to say that the Alcantara leather in your Merc E-class is made in a little city called Yiwu in Zhejiang province?


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Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: CKL1213 on July 21, 2015, 09:29:46 PM
The word Alcantara is so Italian feel.

I know my fabric seat is made somewhere in Rawang
Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: Timeless on July 22, 2015, 05:42:24 AM
The undercover did an excellent job.. not a fan of counterfeit but kinda impress the investment of assets
Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: chiewata on July 22, 2015, 07:14:56 PM
Counterfeit market exists because there is a demand for it. Is it entirely the fault of suppliers including movement makers? Seagull etc sell movements to 3rd parties as well similar to Sellita and ETA in the past. I think other than legal recourse against fakes, watch brands can perhaps collectively educate the market on the value of buying genuine. Yes the message may not resonate with every customer but at least it increases the awareness.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JLC did it every year with and interesting road show where by selected customers are invited to watch making workshop which in my opinion very effective as I personally appreciate luxury watches from a all new perspective
Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: jason_recliner on July 23, 2015, 07:02:38 AM
Scary stuff!  But not very surprising.  If you try and sell a basic steel watch for $5k, and it can be produced for peanuts, don't be surprised if somebody else starts making them!

This is one reason I like Grand Seiko so much.  The quality is so high, and the manual labor requirements so difficult, that to make a cheap fake is impossible.  It would end up costing too much.
Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: theseira on July 23, 2015, 08:23:16 AM
Nice article, not against fake watches but seems like they making progress!

One thing I can say is based on experience is that the attention to detail is not there.

They need to perfect the minor details, at the moment there are no 1:1 replica/fake watch. If there is please PM me the details I would love to check it out (don't worry about the movement as long as the case, dial, hands, font, bezel and bracelet all outer appearance, dimensions  1:1 to the gen is OK already).

I have been occasionally reading forums on replica watches and have been speaking to some hardcore fans that would go as far as to put original parts to replica pieces to make it as close as possible to the gen and as I said still no 1:1 version of any Rolex, Panerai, AP, Patek etc. This is not including movement btw. I am talking about case, dial and bracelet. Finishing and attention to detail not there.

Even a basic pam 111 there are many flaws and have to be modified further to make it as close as possible to the gen.

Well maybe someday they will be able to make a 1:1 copy.
Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: jason_recliner on July 24, 2015, 01:06:10 AM
There are fake Rolexes and PAMs out there that fool dealers. So maybe not 1:1 but similar quality and looks close enough.

I guarantee that all my watches are 100% original unless otherwise described.  When buying stock I can't rely on photographs because I don't think the signs of a fake would be obvious enough.  I have to rely on the seller's reputation instead.

More than ever...  BUY THE SELLER!
Title: Re: A report on the current state of fake watch industry in China
Post by: chrisyen on July 24, 2015, 12:36:29 PM

AAA grade BMW exterior, china cow skin leather seat.

To lure lala mui.
Would it surprise you if I were to say that the Alcantara leather in your Merc E-class is made in a little city called Yiwu in Zhejiang province?


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i remember there is one msia making leather for Ferrari and other sport cars...