Malaysia Watch Forum
Main Forums => General Discussion - Modern Watches => Topic started by: audric on July 18, 2010, 09:42:11 PM
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Dear sifu, i need opinions for this JLC Master Compressor extreme world chronograph. Recently, i have send my watch for repair and the sales rep kept on asking me to buy this watch. I think the size is ok at 46mm as my previous watch is 44mm. Please give me some suggestions as i do not know about the quality of JLC although a lot of ppl have mention it is very good but i still need more ppl opinions.
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does it serve the purpose u wan?
for d looks?
for d gorgeous sales lady?
;D
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What watch did you send in for repair?
JLC is a great brand, i dont think any watch manufacturer can have a different movt for almost every model.
Ad for the model you mentioned not for me as much as i like the master comp line. The dial is too busy for me.
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i too have been bitten by the JLC bug.
went to the JLC boutique and fell in love the MC Diving GMT.
bloody light cos of titanium case & bracelet.
even has 2+2 warranty. pretty awesome.
but worried about resale value, cos i don't think i'll be wearing it for too long.
else from that, AWESOME.
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Dear Samajaya, actually this watch serve no purpose as i only travel to HK everytime and timezone is same as Malaysia. However, i always like chronograph and that is the reason the sales rep recommend this watch. Btw, the sales lady is not gorgeous, so nvr buy immediately on impulse, phew.
Dear Takashi, i have send in my Montblanc timewalker for repair. Very regret to buy this watch as this is the third time i have send for repair. Do you have any good recommendations for a new watch. I am actually in a dilemma between a JLC and a Panerai. Simple dial is also ok as i will be wearing this only on weekend as i am wearing my Omega seamaster on working days.
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jlc and pam are totally different things altogether.
jlc is classy and a true manufacture with dressy, super complicated and even simple watches.
pam on the other hand draws from its italian navy roots.
have u tried on both yet?
that's really important.
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Dear dsiewmy, i tried both before and both looks ok which is why i am in a dilemma. Normally, my wife will give suggestions but this time, she ask me to make decision myself. Does JLC offer 2 + 2 yr warranty as the AD nvr mention it to me before. This is another added point as i have bad experience with montblanc and i think warranty is very important to me.
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audric, sorry to hear about your MB problem. Care to elaborate more what kind of problems on the watch?
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Dear CK, The first service was due to the date movement was stuck as it was supposed to use a pin to press it but the date cannot move no matter how you press it. 2nd service was due to a screw came off and it can be seen clearly as this watch has a transparent back and this result in the movement not moving. And the third time was last saturday as i was supposed to collect my watch and found out that movement does not move smoothly and the AD told me that when i send for 2nd repair, i nvr mention that the movement does not move smoothly and i only mention about the screw, therefore, they nvr check the movement. I found this ridiculous b'cos aren't there supposed to check whether the watch is working properly before they ask customer to collect. So, here i am looking for a new watch as i think my montblanc will be in the drawer even though it is repair.
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audric, the watch is still under warranty huh?
Just curious, did you change the date between 9pm to 3am? Because it might cause the first problem that you faced.
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Dear CK, the warranty expired on the jun 2010, thats is why i am arguing with them about that third repair as they have mentioned that they will be a charge since warranty is over but the watch was send for 2nd repair on the May and when they have ask me to collect on last sat, i have not even worn it and found out the problem and how can they charge me for that.
The AD also told me that i cannot change the date from 9pm - 3am, i'm not sure whether i have done this before but i will be careful on this in future.
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hope everything is alright and we'll have a happy ending ;)
p/s: oops, is getting off topic here ;D ok back to jlc
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Dear CK, that's alrite as i am learning many new things along the way as now only i know i cannot change the date from 9pm-3am. Sometimes, i am really lazy to read the user manual....heheh
Anyway, what is yr opinion on JLC Master Compressor, i want a watch that will never go out of trend so i am looking for common design.
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The 2+2 warranty only applicable to the boutique in Star Hill, its a new thing the boutique is trying to lure cust to buy from them.
So its up to you, pay more for the warranty or less for the normal 2yrs.
Those who know me know that i dont fancy Pam watches hehe...
So my vote goes to the JLC.
Another thing is to consider is the price of service for JLC, not cheap and the more complicated the more it will ring up.
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Regretted buying the JLC Master Compressor, bought it last year and thankfully managed to sell it off to a friend in Feb this year.
It does not have the long lasting appeal that some watches have. Depending on your budget, if its stretchable, suggest going for either one of the JLC AMVOX range. Those are really beautiful and has a lasting appeal to them IMHO.
Other options would be IWC or Zenith? The upper range has better movements and they look like they'd keep its looks for quite a few years to come. Check out [removed]? they give pretty good discount for IWC's. [removed] is better for Zenith I think.
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Just curious, did you change the date between 9pm to 3am?
I know ETa based watches hv this problem. Applies to JLC as well?
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Just curious, did you change the date between 9pm to 3am?
I know ETa based watches hv this problem. Applies to JLC as well?
We are talking about MB which is ETA based. JLC am not sure.
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Dear Primus, thanks for the advice. But JLC master Compressor is already very expensive. Cannot go higher than that else next time find it hard to upgrade to another watch. I kinda like Zenith, what about this model, is it ok. I think the price range will be less than JLC rite. ZENITH Chronomaster XXT Open El Primero 45mm
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We are talking about MB which is ETA based. JLC am not sure.
[/quote]
;D woops...my bad..monday morning...
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have u ever consider Bremont?
IWC is quite nice, i like d regulator n portugese 7days PwrRes
Zenith has great movement but comes 2 servicing, its very complicated watch 2 maintain
JLC, i prefer reverso
:Cheers:
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I don't have a Zenith so can't comment on it really...
I will recommend JLC if you are looking for accuracy ;)
Panerai is good looking watch but depend how much you like big watch ;)
IWC, classic and my favorite is Port and Pilot classic.
I do have some bad experience with JLC before my last acquisition, JLC Grande Reverso GMT.
First, i owned a 889/2. I bought it used. It's a master control series and i can't remember the model. I sent back richemont for service but come back still not up to my expectation and the watchmaker told me 889/2 is running within "that" (it was gaining > +10 to +20, can't remember exactly) range. Later i found out the 889/2 should be within COSC standard and it's 1000 hours tested. Wasn't happy and sold few weeks later.
Then, i bought a PAM190. It uses JLC 8 days movement as you all aware. Wasn't happy with the movement too because it's not really accurate either. Managed to sell it with some good price, so, no complain :)
Last month, i bought a new JLC Grande Reverso GMT, love it ;) I just done a week (actually 2 weeks, but the first week wasn't too sure because i didn't sync the time properly) of testing on its accuracy, after 8 days, it's +5 only and it is still ticking now.. I would expect around 9 days++ PR. But then again, the accuracy really depend on an individual, how you wear it and how you place it, etc.
As compare to IWC 7 days. The Grande GMT accuracy is far more better. Both my Port 7 and BP gain +5 to +6 daily.
PAM233 loses 1 sec daily as per my last check (i think last year :p).
In my opinion, for long power reserve, manual winding are far more accurate then automatic. I can be wrong but that's my opinion based on all my long PR watches i have.
OK, that's the movement part. Personally, I like only the classic look JLC. For example, the Master Control (dressy type), the MEMOVOX and the Reverso (I like only the Grande reverso because the size and thickness are just right), Duometre ;)
The others i find too "extreme" but technically they are good watches, I will like to have it if i can start print my own money :D
Like Pete pointed out, JLC produces a lot of quality movement and. the same movement will not used in more then 1/2 model. I am surprise that JLC uses different movement in their AMOX Alarm and MEMOVOX Alarm since both are having same function (3 hands, date at 3 o'clock, alarm crown at 2 o'clock, etc). From this, you can see the effort JLC is putting in.
I will say, go for JLC if you looking for a good quality and value for $ watch (if you do some homework checking out the price on JLC, IWC and Panerai you know what i mean ;) ) :thumbsup:
good luck!
scott
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Haha Scott you said you like the more classic look and yet you put in Duometre also.
I agree with you on the classic style of JLC, thats the one i would go for as well.
The master compressor just has too much going on in the dial side.
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JLC produces great movements. Personally, i love Master Ultra Thin and Reverso range (although it doesn't really fit my wrist well, too small).
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JLC has a long history n heritage in making hi-quality movements...more than a century old...only a handful of watch brands can claim this...so i guess enuf said... ;D
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Dear Primus, thanks for the advice. But JLC master Compressor is already very expensive. Cannot go higher than that else next time find it hard to upgrade to another watch. I kinda like Zenith, what about this model, is it ok. I think the price range will be less than JLC rite. ZENITH Chronomaster XXT Open El Primero 45mm
To be honest, I think buying a watch depends very much on what a person looks for in that watch?
- Features?
- Accuracy?
- Aesthetics?
- Resale value?
- Value for money?
What are you looking for? I normally go for aesthetics since I don't really trade the watches unless I really regret buying it. The Zenith Chronomaster (not gold casing!) is a beautiful watch, question is, is that what you value? Accuracy is pretty good. Resale value not sure.
In terms of accuracy, I'd say that Rolex probably has one of the best accuracy. Unfortunately the looks does not rock my boat at all!
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I second tat. For 2.5 yrs, my sub is +2s/day except during the break in period.
In terms of accuracy, I'd say that Rolex probably has one of the best accuracy. Unfortunately the looks does not rock my boat at all!
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Finally, accuracy rubbed on to u :)
I don't have a Zenith so can't comment on it really...
First, i owned a 889/2. I bought it used. It's a master control series and i can't remember the model. I sent back richemont for service but come back still not up to my expectation and the watchmaker told me 889/2 is running within "that" (it was gaining > +10 to +20, can't remember exactly) range. Later i found out the 889/2 should be within COSC standard and it's 1000 hours tested. Wasn't happy and sold few weeks later.
Then, i bought a PAM190. It uses JLC 8 days movement as you all aware. Wasn't happy with the movement too because it's not really accurate either. Managed to sell it with some good price, so, no complain :)
Last month, i bought a new JLC Grande Reverso GMT, love it ;) I just done a week (actually 2 weeks, but the first week wasn't too sure because i didn't sync the time properly) of testing on its accuracy, after 8 days, it's +5 only and it is still ticking now.. I would expect around 9 days++ PR. But then again, the accuracy really depend on an individual, how you wear it and how you place it, etc.
As compare to IWC 7 days. The Grande GMT accuracy is far more better. Both my Port 7 and BP gain +5 to +6 daily.
PAM233 loses 1 sec daily as per my last check (i think last year :p).
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Not really TH.. i do this for the "review" later to fulfill some other curiosity and of course, mine too since i have no so good experience with JLC before :P The accuracy is not the most important factor in buying a watch..otherwise i wouldn't get this JLC already :HammerHead:
Regarding the accuracy, it's really depend on how long the PR made available to that pc... rolex has good accuracy i think because partly it has only 46hours PR (Daytona 72 ;)) and it can't really compare this with other long PR like BP/Port7/PAM233/etc... i'm sure if Rolex release a longer PR one day, the accuracy will be question and tested too ;)
IWC produces very accurate watches too, i've tested two 3717-01 which both are almost spot on, +1 a day or +less then 1sec; Marck 16 too and the Port Chrono.. all these are using ETA movement but has been heavily re-work by IWC (the 7750 uses in 3717-0 and Port chrono are adjusted to 5 positions too). These watch has the same PR compare to Rolex Sub ;) my point is, not just rolex produces accurate watches but others too ;) but then again, don't get me wrong, i love both brands :Cheers:
just my opinion...
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I didn't say it is the most important factor here. I said accuracy within +5s or so has become 1 of the deciding factors.
I agree with you. I believe watches with 7 or more days PR has bit of "prob" with accuracy when the spring torque is high or low. Some high end watches has the torque indicator to show the wearer if the torque falls below the optimum operating Nm range. This indicator "tells" him when to wind his watch to keep it more accurate even when his watch sufficiently powered.
/lim/
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I am not sure what the big arguement on the accuracy about. If you go for accuracy, then get a SpringDrive or GS. Generally, even GS has more stringent accuracy standard than COSC certified watches. SpringDrive accuracy will put all the others to shame. But then, strange enough, I am going to buy a GS not because I like its accuracy. Rather, I will buy it because of the design, the finishing and its "exclusiveness" (not commonly seen).
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I would love to see which watch has the torque indicator. Dont think i know of any.
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It is not a big argument. It is an offline discussion between me and scott some time back. we have our differences in the criteria on how we select a watch.
SD is not a pure mechanical watch. It has an IC to control the watch heart beat as oppose to using a spring. I know there are arguments about this and each has their own merits. I not going to discuss that over this here. With the IC control, it gives superb accuracy and smooth second hand sweep motion but it is "cheating" in a way. One of the things I love in the SD is the tick-less second hand motion. I was mesmerized by it.
Everybody buys a watch for reasons they known to themselves. They can express what they like about the watch they buy but they do not have to explain them. It is as simple as "I like I buy la" :)
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Just think of the brand of this subject title
http://jlc.watchprosite.com/show-forumpost/fi-2/pi-3954066/ti-631031/s-0/
I would love to see which watch has the torque indicator. Dont think i know of any.
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Hhhaha.. ya ya, the topic is for JLC ma... so, i just provide my feedback on the JLC i have/had before ;)
And then, also pointed out not just rolex produces great accuracy but other brand too... yeah GS is another good example ;) The GS Hi-Beat i picked up last month was amazing too.. 40 year-old but still running strong :Cheers:
I do agreed with TH (sshark) point of view on the SpringDrive.. no doubt i love it but i still feel it's missing some part...ya, the heart beat... the "tick-tak-tick-tak" sound is gone but replace by a beautiful sweep second ;) The finishing on the SD is good too of course ;) and in term of accuracy on the SD, of course it's accurate because it's control by an IC.... just wondering how much it cost for services ::)
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SD is not a pure mechanical watch. It has an IC to control the watch heart beat as oppose to using a spring. I know there are arguments about this and each has their own merits. I not going to discuss that over this here. With the IC control, it gives superb accuracy and smooth second hand sweep motion but it is "cheating" in a way. One of the things I love in the SD is the tick-less second hand motion. I was mesmerized by it.
From the patent description below, SpringDrive is a mechanical timepiece. It is just without the escapement that most mechanical watches have. An analogy of this will be saying that that current versions of VW Beetle are not Beetle because it has a liquid cooled engine instead of air cooled engine! ;D
Patent RE38110
Electronically controlled mechanical timepiece and control method therefor
Inventor: Shinkawa, et al.
OBJECTS OF THE INVENTION
It is an object of the present invention to provide an electronically controlled mechanical timepiece that is free from phase excursions and has rapid control system response, and to a control method therefor.
SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION
According to the present invention, there is provided an electronically controlled mechanical timepiece including: a mechanical energy source; a generator driven by the mechanical energy source connected to the generator via a wheel train.[.bridge.]. , which generates induced electric power for supplying electric energy; a brake circuit for braking the generator; pointers joined to the wheel train .[.bridge.]. ; and a rotation control circuit for controlling the rotation cycle of thegenerator by controlling the brake circuit; wherein the rotation control circuit includes: a rotation detection circuit for generating a rotation signal of the generator; a target-signal generating circuit for generating a target signal corresponding toa target number of revolutions; and a phase-difference compensating circuit for detecting the phase difference of the target signal output from the rotation detection circuit, and the target signal output from the target-signal generating circuit, andoutputting a phase-difference compensation signal which is used as a braking control signal in the brake circuit.
An electronically controlled mechanical timepiece of the present invention uses a mechanical energy source such as a spring to drive pointers and a generator, and controls the number of rotations of a rotor, i.e., the pointers by braking thegenerator. At this time, the electronically controlled mechanical timepiece compares the phases of a rotation signal of the generator and a target signal such as a timepiece's standard signal, and inputs based on the phase difference a brake controlsignal to a brake circuit for the generator, whereby a so-called phase-synchronization circuit or phase-locked-loop control (PLL control) is realized in an electronically controlled mechanical timepiece. Accordingly, since a braking level can be set bycomparing the waveforms of generated power in each cycle, the activation of a locked range realizes a stable, rapidly responsive system and enables the elimination of phase excursions unless the waveforms of generated power remarkably change suddenly.
Under these circumstances, it is preferable that the generator and the brake circuit constitute a voltage-controlled oscillator, and that the phase-difference compensating circuit include: a phase-comparison circuit for comparing the phases ofthe rotation signal and the target signal; and a brake control circuit for inputting to the voltage-controlled oscillator the phase-difference compensation signal for controlling the brake circuit based on an output from the phase-comparison circuit.
Under these circumstances, it is preferable that the rotation control circuit include a waveform shaping circuit for converting the output waveform of the voltage-controlled oscillator into rectangular-wave pulses, and outputting as the rotationsignal to the phase-comparison circuit.
The output waveform of the voltage-controlled oscillator changes in accordance with a control method therefor. However, by providing the waveform shaping circuit, the different part of the output waveform can be absorbed, and rectangular-wavepulses capable of being compared with a time standard signal can be output to the phase-comparison circuit, irrespective of the output waveform from the voltage-controlled oscillator. Thus, the phase-comparison circuit, etc., can be used in common toenable a reduction in a component cost.
In addition, it is preferable that the rotation control circuit include a frequency-to-velocity converter for converting the frequency of an output signal from the voltage-controlled oscillator into velocity, and that the brake control circuit becapable of outputting a signal which controls the brake circuit, based on an output from the phase-comparison circuit and an output from the frequency-to-velocity converter.
By providing the frequency-to-velocity converter, the time constant of a control circuit can be reduced, and responsiveness can be further improved.
Moreover, it is preferable that the phase-difference compensating circuit include a phase-difference detection circuit and a compensation-signal generating means for receiving an output from the phase-difference detection circuit that therotation signal and the target signal be repetitive pulses, that the phase-difference detection circuit include counters for counting the numbers of rises or falls of the respective signals, and that one counter be incremented or decremented when thetarget signal rises or falls, or is incremented or decremented when the rotation signal rises or falls, and outputs an output of the counter as a phase-difference signal to the compensation-signal generating circuit.
By using a counter to constitute the phase-difference detection means, circuit arrangement can be simplified, and a cost can be also reduced. In addition, a counter capable of holding a plurality of counts can be used. Thus, a phase differencein a broad range can be detected, and even if phase differences are totaled, the total can be held. Accordingly, control in accordance with a total of phase differences can be performed, and more accurate velocity-controlled control can be performed.
Under these circumstances, it is preferable that the phase-difference detection circuit include: an integral counter for measuring a total of the phase excursion periods of the rotation signal and the target signal; a proportional counter formeasuring phase excursion periods; and an adder for increasing or reducing the value of each counter in accordance with a lead or lag of the phase excursion of the rotation signal with respect to the target signal.
According to the present invention, there is provided a control method for an electronically controlled mechanical timepiece including a mechanical energy source; a generator driven by the mechanical energy source connected to the generator via awheel train .[.bridge.]. , which generates induced electric power for supplying electric energy, a brake circuit for braking the generator, pointers joined to the wheel train .[.bridge.]. , and a rotation control circuit for controlling the rotationcycle of the generator by controlling the brake circuit, wherein a rotation signal of the generator and a target signal generated in accordance with a target number of revolutions are compared to detect the phase difference therebetween, and aphase-difference compensation signal in accordance with the phase difference is used to control the brake circuit.
In the present invention, phase excursions can be eliminated, and stable, rapidly responsive control system is realized because an electronically controlled mechanical timepiece can be controlled by phase-synchronization circuit control (PLLcontrol).
Under these circumstances, it is preferable that the control method comprise: using an integral counter to measure a total of the phase excursion periods of the rotation signal and the target signal, and using a proportional counter to measurephase excursion periods; determining a lead or lag of the phase excursion of the rotation signal with respect to the target signal; computing a phase-difference compensation signal for setting a braking time by increasing or reducing the value of eachcounter in accordance with the determined result; and using the phase-difference compensation signal to control the brake circuit. The setting of the braking time includes not only the case where a braking time is directly set, but also the case whereindirect braking is performed by setting a braking release time in which braking is not performed in a predetermined cycle.
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Just think of the brand of this subject title
http://jlc.watchprosite.com/show-forumpost/fi-2/pi-3954066/ti-631031/s-0/
I would love to see which watch has the torque indicator. Dont think i know of any.
Is there another one where i dont have to sell my house and car to get one? hehe
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go for JLC master control line ....compressor series is more rugged....if you prefer a more rugged look then go for pam
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dear all, after seeing so many post, i think i have to learn more about the basics of a watch before i make a decision. Really appreciate all the advise given by all the sifus here and this really makes me not to buy something on impulse. Will continue my hunt for a watch and gonna lose sleep starting from now until i have bought one...haha..thumbs up for all of you sifus..... :thumbsup:
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You should join our future GTG and we can browse the shops together
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Sounds more like more potent poison injection :)
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haha, i agree with sshark that if i join you guys for gtg, will definitely kena more poison. But if i have the time, will definitely try to meet you guys..
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went to see the iwc portugese automatic....now then i realised price for iwc is on the high side, no wonder scott have previously ask me to do some homework for jlc, panerai and iwc. Go to see iwc because saw some sifu here wearing BP and now kena poison oledi. Great watch and also great price. Can some sifu here pm me the best price for BP or Portugese auto as my AD in penang price might not be as competitive as kl.
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men, u are sick u need help... get your "Prescription" from our most helpful mod, Mr. Scott :HammerHead:
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yes, dennis. i am having "high fever" now and guess won't recover until i have the prescription :Cheers:
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went to see the iwc portugese automatic....now then i realised price for iwc is on the high side, no wonder scott have previously ask me to do some homework for jlc, panerai and iwc. Go to see iwc because saw some sifu here wearing BP and now kena poison oledi. Great watch and also great price. Can some sifu here pm me the best price for BP or Portugese auto as my AD in penang price might not be as competitive as kl.
PMed you already ;)
IWC price increased since April this year and they have restrict the discount but still... a piece worth looking into ;)
:Cheers:
scott
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I owned a JLC and a Zenith.
JLC reverso mechanical never promise to be super accurate to COSC specs. my reverso duo is ~+5-10sec.
my Zenith is at +1sec, vintage Zenith is at ~+10sec.
great accuracy watches come with good regulation. u think factory fresh assemble movement will be accurate to COSC specs?
JLC movement are well finish, maybe better than Rolex.
want your JLC a watch to run +1sec, just pay to get it regulated to that. JLC
if u have try to regulate a mechanical watch, U do know thats not a easy task.
as for Spring Drive, I didn't find anyone saying its a pure mechanical watch.
its 95-99% mechanical, the electricity that drive the IC come from the main spring (kinetic energy).
without an traditional escapement I doubt U need to service it often. an Omega co-axle recommends servicing every 10yrs or so. The inventor has not service his mod Rolex since he test out his escapement. The spring drive I can can last a good 10-20yrs b4 requiring service. by that time with flation god knows what the cost would be! LOL
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After asking for opinions from all sifu, now i have finally settled on this watch...
(http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/audric77/IMG_1154.jpg)
(http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/audric77/IMG_1152.jpg)
(http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/audric77/IMG_1151.jpg)
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wow nice, valentino rossi's version.
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Nice :)
Is it a 24hr alrm? Is it loud?
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thanks ck77.
sshark, yes, it is a master compressor with alarm but the alarm is not loud, just a soft ring.
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There are very few 24hr analog alrm or probably i know lots less of mechanical watch with alarms :)
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Actually Peugeot 206 meters are from Jaeger . I like it very much. Mercedes meters couldn't come close to it.
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Saw in Wingwah website, they have a preowned 2013 Rossi .. Selling above RM22k
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