Malaysia Watch Forum
Main Forums => General Discussion - Modern Watches => Topic started by: Chipi on May 29, 2014, 09:09:01 PM
-
Newbie here and the world of horology. My question is how watches become an investment instrument when depreciation begans immediately you put it on your wrist?
I notice many are selling their Oris, Rolex .. etc ... below retail price. And these are good watches. Hell, I was even thinking buying one from them. So how is this investment? This is no difference than ppl ugprading their handphone by selling/trading off their old ones.
Maybe taikos here can enlighten me on the concept of investment when it comes to watches. :Cheers:
-
Yes, it is true that once you remove the sticker, cut the chain, and put it on your wrist, the value of the watch drops. Only few watches can be taken as an investment, like Rolex ,PP or maybe Lange. But for a watch to increase in value, it takes decades, normally after the watch is discontinued. Example like Rolex 1680, it is selling at an average price of $15k USD now, and the PP 5970, selling at a phenomenal price that can even reach $400k USD. If you buy a brand new watch, it is less likely to be taken as an investment, most people take it as a hobby and appreciates the watch, and to pass down to the next generation. Otherwise, it is also easier to sell and not lose too much in order to upgrade into something better. Different watches hold different value, not all watches can be taken as an investment. Anyway, thinking about the resell value of a watch when buying it is just like thinking about divorce before marrying. Only think about investing in a watch when you have the ability to.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Cheers :Cheers:
-
Interesting topic (for me) and I want to know too... :D
How about Swatch? Is the value can be increase too? :V
-
Watches is never meant for investment just like cars is also not an investment. Just enjoy the watch or the car that you like .... :Cheers:
Although there are instances of the watch appreciates in value if it is limited edition or rare pieces of the likes of heavyweights eg. Rolex, PP, Lange etc but it takes time and luck too if you chose the right one.
Resale value for watches ...take a look at the pre-owned section or the merchant corner at the forum will give you an indication of the resale value of watches. :thumbsup:
-
Watches is never meant for investment just like cars is also not an investment. Just enjoy the watch or the car that you like .... :Cheers:
Although there are instances of the watch appreciates in value if it is limited edition or rare pieces of the likes of heavyweights eg. Rolex, PP, Lange etc but it takes time and luck too if you chose the right one.
Resale value for watches ...take a look at the pre-owned section or the merchant corner at the forum will give you an indication of the resale value of watches. :thumbsup:
Yup .. tht's where I conlcuded my idea.
Saw some Oris (tempted to buy) in the pre-owned section on sale only after short period of owning them ... some still have original warranty intact. So was wondering why the sale? Change of heart maybe. But with those nice watches, I'l be drooling to own one. :Praying:
By the way, where can we check if some watches has gone UP in price? That would be good information/knowledge to have :Cheers:
-
Again with this fallacy.. Always with this question: Should I use my 30k FD to buy a Rolex? Even if let's assume the value of a Rolex holds, there is always the risk of damage or worse; theft
-
Yes, it is true that once you remove the sticker, cut the chain, and put it on your wrist, the value of the watch drops. Only few watches can be taken as an investment, like Rolex ,PP or maybe Lange. But for a watch to increase in value, it takes decades, normally after the watch is discontinued. Example like Rolex 1680, it is selling at an average price of $15k USD now, and the PP 5970, selling at a phenomenal price that can even reach $400k USD. If you buy a brand new watch, it is less likely to be taken as an investment, most people take it as a hobby and appreciates the watch, and to pass down to the next generation. Otherwise, it is also easier to sell and not lose too much in order to upgrade into something better. Different watches hold different value, not all watches can be taken as an investment. Anyway, thinking about the resell value of a watch when buying it is just like thinking about divorce before marrying. Only think about investing in a watch when you have the ability to.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Cheers :Cheers:
i'm very curious what makes the Red Sub so sought after?
-
I know that some Rolex and Patek pieces are actually investments.
-
Yes, it is true that once you remove the sticker, cut the chain, and put it on your wrist, the value of the watch drops. Only few watches can be taken as an investment, like Rolex ,PP or maybe Lange. But for a watch to increase in value, it takes decades, normally after the watch is discontinued. Example like Rolex 1680, it is selling at an average price of $15k USD now, and the PP 5970, selling at a phenomenal price that can even reach $400k USD. If you buy a brand new watch, it is less likely to be taken as an investment, most people take it as a hobby and appreciates the watch, and to pass down to the next generation. Otherwise, it is also easier to sell and not lose too much in order to upgrade into something better. Different watches hold different value, not all watches can be taken as an investment. Anyway, thinking about the resell value of a watch when buying it is just like thinking about divorce before marrying. Only think about investing in a watch when you have the ability to.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Cheers :Cheers:
i'm very curious what makes the Red Sub so sought after?
In simple terms, the watches are fairly rare. The practice of painting the dials with red paint disappeared in the mid-seventies and in the intervening years many, many Red Subs had their cool red-painted dials replaced during service with the more common white versions. Because of their cool look and relative rarity, the prices on the Red Subs had climbed into fairly lofty territory as recently as a few years back. When the vintage market hit its modern apogee about two or three years ago, it wasn’t uncommon to see Red Subs sell for two or three times the price of a more common white 1680.
-
i'm very curious what makes the Red Sub so sought after?
I believe these are hype played by some industry veterans. Technically it is not superior to current ceramic models, aethetically it is not special. but the rarity in additional wording in red that contributed to all the hoo ha.
I believe there are many many more models of other watches which are "rarer" than the red sub but just that they are not "played up or boosted" by the industry.
If you buy the idea and would like to possess one that is "perceived" to be exclusive, by all mean go ahead. you may indeed make some money. :Cheers:
But be careful that with the amount of money the Red sub is fetching, there are lots of scam that may sell a fake one (not necessary fake watch but fake dial) that is highly deceiving.
-
thanks mikster and el118... cos i wasn't able to find any info whether the Red Sub was technically unique... :Confused:
it's just because its a limited production before they changed it to white
-
Those who sells you the idea of watches are investment screwed you up, stop wondering, watches are not investment.
Ok, maybe 0.000001% of the watches out there are investment, like the Rolex Daytona Paul Newman 1969...
-
I use to work for insurance company as Risk Engineer.
There are instances when rich customers insured their watches so our department have to check their security where their watches are kept. Personally, I have never been to such survey but my bosses attended a few. There was once where the collection was insured for RM5 million. I believe it shld worth more than that by now. Tht was 10 yrs ago.
-
Those who sells you the idea of watches are investment screwed you up, stop wondering, watches are not investment.
Ok, maybe 0.000001% of the watches out there are investment, like the Rolex Daytona Paul Newman 1969...
Apart from design and limited edition factors, the jewels and metal (i.e gold) can be factors for investment. Of course, nowaday synthetic jewels are abundantly used for watchmaking, the display pieces for the dials and face are real jewels worth as investment too.
-
I use to work for insurance company as Risk Engineer.
There are instances when rich customers insured their watches so our department have to check their security where their watches are kept. Personally, I have never been to such survey but my bosses attended a few. There was once where the collection was insured for RM5 million. I believe it shld worth more than that by now. Tht was 10 yrs ago.
insured that much just means they bought it at that price... not necessary it can be sold that high...
-
I really think it's better to invest in properties, stocks, unit trust funds than investing in watches. Not all watches has that novelty that commands higher resale value. Though the real jewels on the watch might be worth something, I reckon it will not retain its value. There are so many brands in the market that carry models with real jewels.
Even if you plucked out those jewels from the watch and sell it to jewelers, they might not want it cause not much they can do with it. Or probably they could make a ring or ear ring from it, what will happen to the watch itself? The jewels and the watch has to be together and that comes back to the novelty of that watch.
-
don't even imagine that u can make any money from sell/buy watch. u mush first love it and enjoy it then after several years u will find it worth for everything not only money.
-
Newbie here and the world of horology. My question is how watches become an investment instrument when depreciation begans immediately you put it on your wrist?
I notice many are selling their Oris, Rolex .. etc ... below retail price. And these are good watches. Hell, I was even thinking buying one from them. So how is this investment? This is no difference than ppl ugprading their handphone by selling/trading off their old ones.
Maybe taikos here can enlighten me on the concept of investment when it comes to watches. :Cheers:b
Not bad for a newbie .... already have gold rolex for sale in the pre-owned section asking for RM60,000 :Cheers:
So was the gold rolex a good investment :Dancing_banana:
Please share with us your investment in watches .. :thumbsup:
-
Invest in watches? Collecting watches? Watch price appreciate every yr...
Sales man talk nia.
Buy a watch to wear... Always better! Price up or down also no effect on u
-
Newbie here and the world of horology. My question is how watches become an investment instrument when depreciation begans immediately you put it on your wrist?
I notice many are selling their Oris, Rolex .. etc ... below retail price. And these are good watches. Hell, I was even thinking buying one from them. So how is this investment? This is no difference than ppl ugprading their handphone by selling/trading off their old ones.
Maybe taikos here can enlighten me on the concept of investment when it comes to watches. :Cheers:b
Not bad for a newbie .... already have gold rolex for sale in the pre-owned section asking for RM60,000 :Cheers:
So was the gold rolex a good investment :Dancing_banana:
Please share with us your investment in watches .. :thumbsup:
Of course there's a good return. It's for the gold. :Jumping:
I'm a gold bug ... sold it to another gold bug ....
Not too sure abt the watch though ... just learning from this forum if watch can be another option as investment. :angel:
-
Don't get trapped into believing that watch is a good investment. I've made that mistakes several years ago...Friends convinced me to purchase second hand Rolex, telling me how convenient it is for me to dispose it at any pawn shop if I need money. I had a nice windfall back then, and went crazy buying several 2nd hand Rolexes. Since then I closely keep track of the prices and it hardly moved. I've asked watch dealers to know how much they're willing to take a piece that I particularly like to sell, and they quoted me a price of ard 20% of what I've paid! Needless to say, I decided to keep the watch.
Learn from my lesson...A watch is never an investment. It's something you buy to enjoy, and if it ended up becoming more valuable along the way, that's a bonus. So my friend, get a watch that you like and if you want to invest, then go for stocks or properties. Just my 2 cents... :)
-
Buying a watch for investment is just a weak justification to spend X amount of money on a wrist watch.
I echo most of the forum members here when I say buy and wear what you like.
Emotional satisfaction and instant gratification should be only returns as far as investment on watches is concern.
-
Don't get trapped into believing that watch is a good investment. I've made that mistakes several years ago...Friends convinced me to purchase second hand Rolex, telling me how convenient it is for me to dispose it at any pawn shop if I need money. I had a nice windfall back then, and went crazy buying several 2nd hand Rolexes. Since then I closely keep track of the prices and it hardly moved. I've asked watch dealers to know how much they're willing to take a piece that I particularly like to sell, and they quoted me a price of ard 20% of what I've paid! Needless to say, I decided to keep the watch.
Learn from my lesson...A watch is never an investment. It's something you buy to enjoy, and if it ended up becoming more valuable along the way, that's a bonus. So my friend, get a watch that you like and if you want to invest, then go for stocks or properties. Just my 2 cents... :)
I bought my used Rolex 1601 in 1991 for RM 750 sent repair RM400 the watch shop onwer offer me
RM 2000 and again sent repair in 2008 another RM 400 this he offer me RM 4000 now friend offer me
RM 6000 what do you think.....as investment....
-
Don't get trapped into believing that watch is a good investment. I've made that mistakes several years ago...Friends convinced me to purchase second hand Rolex, telling me how convenient it is for me to dispose it at any pawn shop if I need money. I had a nice windfall back then, and went crazy buying several 2nd hand Rolexes. Since then I closely keep track of the prices and it hardly moved. I've asked watch dealers to know how much they're willing to take a piece that I particularly like to sell, and they quoted me a price of ard 20% of what I've paid! Needless to say, I decided to keep the watch.
Learn from my lesson...A watch is never an investment. It's something you buy to enjoy, and if it ended up becoming more valuable along the way, that's a bonus. So my friend, get a watch that you like and if you want to invest, then go for stocks or properties. Just my 2 cents... :)
I bought my used Rolex 1601 in 1991 for RM 750 sent repair RM400 the watch shop onwer offer me
RM 2000 and again sent repair in 2008 another RM 400 this he offer me RM 4000 now friend offer me
RM 6000 what do you think.....as investment....
I believe the message they are conveying is buy what you like and within budget. Have no intention as investment.
If you are lucky, the watch in hand appreciates in price. And eliminate "unlucky" event when watch depreciates in price since you like the watch you bought the first place. ::)
-
By the way, Engkow. Which repair shop you sent your watch too?
I'm looking to repair my Zodiac.
Nobody seem to answering my questions in the other thread.
Thank you in advance. :Cheers:
-
That is why Marketing genius at Patek come out with the "heirloom" idea for consumer to justify the exuberant price :Cheers:
-
Don't get trapped into believing that watch is a good investment. I've made that mistakes several years ago...Friends convinced me to purchase second hand Rolex, telling me how convenient it is for me to dispose it at any pawn shop if I need money. I had a nice windfall back then, and went crazy buying several 2nd hand Rolexes. Since then I closely keep track of the prices and it hardly moved. I've asked watch dealers to know how much they're willing to take a piece that I particularly like to sell, and they quoted me a price of ard 20% of what I've paid! Needless to say, I decided to keep the watch.
Learn from my lesson...A watch is never an investment. It's something you buy to enjoy, and if it ended up becoming more valuable along the way, that's a bonus. So my friend, get a watch that you like and if you want to invest, then go for stocks or properties. Just my 2 cents... :)
I bought my used Rolex 1601 in 1991 for RM 750 sent repair RM400 the watch shop onwer offer me
RM 2000 and again sent repair in 2008 another RM 400 this he offer me RM 4000 now friend offer me
RM 6000 what do you think.....as investment....
In those days, Rolex were priced more "reasonably". Also, do consider inflation in the process. Based on your experience, we would need to hold onto one watch for 23 years before it quadruples in value. And that's only for your model.
Look at used prices from grey dealers for a used 1990s Rolex President. IINM, they're in the RM2x,000 range depending on condition. How much were they in the 90s? Consider also that if you were to sell to them, they would take it for much less than the selling price to add in costs of maintenance, polish, holding costs and profit.
Everyone new in the watch or Rolex game gets told it's an investment. From current owners to salespeople.
Was RM750 the market price then for a 1601 or did you buy it off someone at a gambling table??
:Laughing_on_floor:
And RM60k was a good price for the gold Lady Datejust on oyster (for the seller that is..). For that money, I could get a WG 36mm Rolex President with president bracelet. Yes, Rolex can be an investment if you happen to meet the right "buyer"...
:Laughing_on_floor:
-
Dpkong,
I certainly hope to find the right "buyer" in this forum ;)
For the moment, I'm happy to hold on to the watches and will wait for time to do it's magic :)
-
Dpkong,
I certainly hope to find the right "buyer" in this forum ;)
For the moment, I'm happy to hold on to the watches and will wait for time to do it's magic :)
Chances of that would be much lower here. Try out on the streets where the value of watches are more hyped.
:Cheers:
-
Dpkong,
I certainly hope to find the right "buyer" in this forum ;)
For the moment, I'm happy to hold on to the watches and will wait for time to do it's magic :)
Chances of that would be much lower here. Try out on the streets where the value of watches are more hyped.
:Cheers:
I doubt it would be higher out there. people will be sceptical about the authenticity of the watch. so either bite the bullet and sell at a loss or keep it for "Forced Heirloom". :Dancing_banana:
-
Don't get trapped into believing that watch is a good investment. I've made that mistakes several years ago...Friends convinced me to purchase second hand Rolex, telling me how convenient it is for me to dispose it at any pawn shop if I need money. I had a nice windfall back then, and went crazy buying several 2nd hand Rolexes. Since then I closely keep track of the prices and it hardly moved. I've asked watch dealers to know how much they're willing to take a piece that I particularly like to sell, and they quoted me a price of ard 20% of what I've paid! Needless to say, I decided to keep the watch.
Learn from my lesson...A watch is never an investment. It's something you buy to enjoy, and if it ended up becoming more valuable along the way, that's a bonus. So my friend, get a watch that you like and if you want to invest, then go for stocks or properties. Just my 2 cents... :)
Bought from a relative watch need repair, sent to rolex center to repair they
quote was RM 975.00 my relative too much dont want too repair, he bought
few years back for RM 1500, I said you bought RM1500 sell me half price I
sent for repair deal done.
I bought my used Rolex 1601 in 1991 for RM 750 sent repair RM400 the watch shop onwer offer me
RM 2000 and again sent repair in 2008 another RM 400 this he offer me RM 4000 now friend offer me
RM 6000 what do you think.....as investment....
In those days, Rolex were priced more "reasonably". Also, do consider inflation in the process. Based on your experience, we would need to hold onto one watch for 23 years before it quadruples in value. And that's only for your model.
Look at used prices from grey dealers for a used 1990s Rolex President. IINM, they're in the RM2x,000 range depending on condition. How much were they in the 90s? Consider also that if you were to sell to them, they would take it for much less than the selling price to add in costs of maintenance, polish, holding costs and profit.
Everyone new in the watch or Rolex game gets told it's an investment. From current owners to salespeople.
Was RM750 the market price then for a 1601 or did you buy it off someone at a gambling table??
:Laughing_on_floor:
And RM60k was a good price for the gold Lady Datejust on oyster (for the seller that is..). For that money, I could get a WG 36mm Rolex President with president bracelet. Yes, Rolex can be an investment if you happen to meet the right "buyer"...
:Laughing_on_floor:
-
Side track a bit. Since you are a gold bug, mind sharing what you invest in?
Of course there's a good return. It's for the gold. :Jumping:
I'm a gold bug ... sold it to another gold bug ....
Not too sure abt the watch though ... just learning from this forum if watch can be another option as investment. :angel:
-
Side track a bit. Since you are a gold bug, mind sharing what you invest in?
Of course there's a good return. It's for the gold. :Jumping:
I'm a gold bug ... sold it to another gold bug ....
Not too sure abt the watch though ... just learning from this forum if watch can be another option as investment. :angel:
Banks have Gold and Silver accounts. This way I avoid the hassle of looking for buyers. Purely on price movement.
The gold watch was the first "gold" I bought then as I understood better, real gold bugs buy coins & bars.
I find that troublesome. Not only that, this ETF shy gold investors have this mentality of government confiscating your gold, end-of-the world scenarios which I think is BS. :Confused:
-
Side track a bit. Since you are a gold bug, mind sharing what you invest in?
Of course there's a good return. It's for the gold. :Jumping:
I'm a gold bug ... sold it to another gold bug ....
Not too sure abt the watch though ... just learning from this forum if watch can be another option as investment. :angel:
Banks have Gold and Silver accounts. This way I avoid the hassle of looking for buyers. Purely on price movement.
The gold watch was the first "gold" I bought then as I understood better, real gold bugs buy coins & bars.
I find that troublesome. Not only that, this ETF shy gold investors have this mentality of government confiscating your gold, end-of-the world scenarios which I think is BS. :Confused:
Hi bro, u invested in Genova??
-
Side track a bit. Since you are a gold bug, mind sharing what you invest in?
Of course there's a good return. It's for the gold. :Jumping:
I'm a gold bug ... sold it to another gold bug ....
Not too sure abt the watch though ... just learning from this forum if watch can be another option as investment. :angel:
Banks have Gold and Silver accounts. This way I avoid the hassle of looking for buyers. Purely on price movement.
The gold watch was the first "gold" I bought then as I understood better, real gold bugs buy coins & bars.
I find that troublesome. Not only that, this ETF shy gold investors have this mentality of government confiscating your gold, end-of-the world scenarios which I think is BS. :Confused:
Hi bro, u invested in Genova??
Nope. My neighbour was promoting it but was not interested bcoz the spread was too wide.
The best deal is still ETF from banks
Guess I'm not really a gold bug after all..... :Laughing_on_floor:
-
Pls re read what the wisest investor of all time, mr Warren Buffet, said about investment in gold. Especially after 2012.
-
Pls re read what the wisest investor of all time, mr Warren Buffet, said about investment in gold. Especially after 2012.
Mr. Buffet said so many things ... which wise statement of his are you refering to? ???
-
"Today the world's gold stock is about 170,000 metric tons. If all of this gold were melded together, it would form a cube of about 68 feet per side. (Picture it fitting comfortably within a baseball infield.) At $1,750 per ounce -- gold's price as I write this -- its value would be $9.6 trillion. Call this cube pile A.
"Let's now create a pile B costing an equal amount. For that, we could buy all U.S. cropland (400 million acres with output of about $200 billion annually), plus 16 Exxon Mobils (the world's most profitable company, one earning more than $40 billion annually). After these purchases, we would have about $1 trillion left over for walking-aroundmoney (no sense feeling strapped after this buying binge). Can you imagine an investor with $9.6 trillion selecting pile A over pile B?
"A century from now the 400 million acres of farmlandwill have produced staggering amounts of corn, wheat, cotton, and other crops -- and will continue to produce that valuable bounty, whatever thecurrency may be. Exxon Mobil will probably have delivered trillions of dollars in dividends to its owners and will also hold assets worth many more trillions (and, remember, you get 16 Exxons). The 170,000 tons of gold will beunchanged in size and still incapable of producing anything. You can fondle the cube, but it will not respond."
So, instead of nonproductive assets such as gold, Buffett prefers productive assets like farmland or companies that generate enormouswealth for shareholders -- companies like Exxon Mobil ( XOM ) , Coca-Cola or See's Candy.
And he clearly explains why:
"Our country's businesses will continue to efficiently deliver goods and services wanted by our citizens. Metaphorically, these commercial "cows" will live for centuries and give ever greater quantities of "milk" to boot. Their value will be determined not by the medium of exchange but rather by their capacity to deliver milk. Proceeds from thesale of the milk willcompound for the owners of the cows, just as they did during the 20th century when the Dow increased from 66 to 11,497 (and paid loads of dividends as well).
"I believe that over any extended period of time this category ofinvesting will prove to be the runaway winner… More important, it will be by far the safest."
Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/article/why-warren-buffett-hates-gold-cm267928#ixzz33lxJlWBG
-
Yup agree with that statement. :thumbsup:
Gold price movement is based on macro economics. There's no interest payment or dividend. It's ALL price appreciation.
So what asset vehicle do we have to invest in with our extra cash. Inflation reduces our buying power and interest rate in FD gives lousy returns. Forget about unit trusts. :mooning:
OPTION 1: Properties
Properties maybe? .... Price is so high, your monthly rental cannot cover the cost of installment and maintenance. It's negative cashflow.... unless you downpay a lump of cash or increase your prepayment (flexi loan) ... to create positive cashflow. Other than that ... you are counting on price appreciation. Now, doesn't that look like gold investment.
And there's fear of bubble popping .... :thumbsdown:
OPTION 2: Stock Markets
The market is slooshing with so much cash thanks to QE, stocks prices has gone to the moon. Every indexes reach new high all the time and PE ratio is so high it take years to breakeven from company earnings/dividend alone. So what do you rely on ... price appreciation. Now, doesn't that look like gold investment.
And there's fear of bubble popping .... :thumbsdown:
Unless of course you are Warren Buffet to be able to buy controlling stake of the company .... that's a different league. Most of us are not in that league.
OPTION 3: Foreign Exchange
IF you have the time to sit in front of your PC to look at market movement.... sure why not. There's still money to be made.
Oh.... wait a minute .... it doesn't pay dividend and rely on price appreciation. Now, doesn't that look like gold investment.
OPTION 4: Own Business
I'm running my own business now. Allocated capital is enough. Here we are talking abt EXTRA cash to invest for appreciation.
Another business maybe? :o
But more for salaried ppl, starting a business with their available cash would mean sacrificing their monthly salary. So own business doesn't apply. However, the would be the best option by far..... :thumbsup:
-
although thread is slightly diverted, i'm enjoying the information and comments, keep it up guys :thumbsup:
-
Every investment has its risks. What differs from gambling is we take calculated risk. A smart investor only buy investments when he deems the risk/reward is low.
If I can find a genuine vintage Rolex at a low/fair price then its a good investment maybe. If I have to pay a premium price (like the prices now) then the risk/reward is not that appealing.
-
When a new watch has an invest-able potential it is going to be sold at its future price i.e. much more expensive than its retail price or most probably you will be put into a queue.
-
Yup agree with that statement. :thumbsup:
Gold price movement is based on macro economics. There's no interest payment or dividend. It's ALL price appreciation.
So what asset vehicle do we have to invest in with our extra cash. Inflation reduces our buying power and interest rate in FD gives lousy returns. Forget about unit trusts. :mooning:
OPTION 1: Properties
Properties maybe? .... Price is so high, your monthly rental cannot cover the cost of installment and maintenance. It's negative cashflow.... unless you downpay a lump of cash or increase your prepayment (flexi loan) ... to create positive cashflow. Other than that ... you are counting on price appreciation. Now, doesn't that look like gold investment.
And there's fear of bubble popping .... :thumbsdown:
OPTION 2: Stock Markets
The market is slooshing with so much cash thanks to QE, stocks prices has gone to the moon. Every indexes reach new high all the time and PE ratio is so high it take years to breakeven from company earnings/dividend alone. So what do you rely on ... price appreciation. Now, doesn't that look like gold investment.
And there's fear of bubble popping .... :thumbsdown:
Unless of course you are Warren Buffet to be able to buy controlling stake of the company .... that's a different league. Most of us are not in that league.
OPTION 3: Foreign Exchange
IF you have the time to sit in front of your PC to look at market movement.... sure why not. There's still money to be made.
Oh.... wait a minute .... it doesn't pay dividend and rely on price appreciation. Now, doesn't that look like gold investment.
OPTION 4: Own Business
I'm running my own business now. Allocated capital is enough. Here we are talking abt EXTRA cash to invest for appreciation.
Another business maybe? :o
But more for salaried ppl, starting a business with their available cash would mean sacrificing their monthly salary. So own business doesn't apply. However, the would be the best option by far..... :thumbsup:
Isn't gold price fixed by a bunch of international banks daily?
-
Which investment is not fixed by any group of ppl ... LIBOR case.
Not surprising business, investment as long as money making is control/manipulated somehow or another. :Blue:
-
Yea, sad reality isn't it?
On another note, silver fixing has ended. gold could be next. it's interesting to see how transparent the new price fixing is and how gold will eventually follow suit. Ok, we've sidetracked waaaay off the topic.
-
Yup ... back on track:
Maybe our seniors here can give their opinion of factors to spot for invest-able watches apart from brands. ;D
-
Which investment is not fixed by any group of ppl ... LIBOR case.
Not surprising business, investment as long as money making is control/manipulated somehow or another. :Blue:
So eventually, those who think they're investors are actually just little pawns in the game?
Back on topic...
If you really must invest in a watch, go for the extremely limited production models of Patek Philippe. Though my opinion of most high brand watches are that they maintain their value if bought at the right price. You may be lucky if they appreciate. It won't swing like gold so expect a very long wait.
Watches that command high prices now are collector items and as with anything in that field, you need to acquire the skills of a collector. It's not as simple as gold trading.
I guess stamps/coin collecting forums get similar questions like "Which stamp/coin should I buy as investment?"
:Confused:
:Laughing_on_floor:
-
It happened before. It is well known that in 1933, President Roosevelt confiscated the gold of U.S. citizens and made possession of gold illegal. Nothing is impossible for a government. They will do anything to survive.
If you think ETF and physical gold are the same, or you think gold is useless, you have to find out why gold is an important element in our financial system. Of course you won't read about the importance of gold in MSM and of course Warren Buffett will play down gold as he benefits from the irresponsible printing of paper money.
I am not the right person to talk about this but if you are interested to find out why gold is important (it acts like insurance), check out this site:
http://hiddensecretsofmoney.com
Watch the video series as they are excellently done.
Also, here's an article to rebuke what Buffett said about gold. Did you know that his father had endorsed gold?
http://srsroccoreport.com/guest-post-warren-buffett-and-the-investment-value-of-gold/guest-post-warren-buffett-and-the-investment-value-of-gold/
Hope I can shed some light to some myths about gold ;)
-
The video is convincing but our BNM does not have any private shareholders and its existence is under the purview of MOF unlike US Federal Reserve. I guess we're a bit "safer"?. I think it's not really advisable to turn all your cash savings into gold bullion (including paper gold) at this point of the time as the money printing exercise is tapering and the gold price is still on its way down. If you trust Mike's warning completely, then grab as much bullion coins as you can in the coming months but be prepared to lose few % till it reaches the lowest price.
p/s: Kijang Emas bullion coin is a good money for value. (24K, low spread, not far from international gold price)
It happened before. It is well known that in 1933, President Roosevelt confiscated the gold of U.S. citizens and made possession of gold illegal. Nothing is impossible for a government. They will do anything to survive.
If you think ETF and physical gold are the same, or you think gold is useless, you have to find out why gold is an important element in our financial system. Of course you won't read about the importance of gold in MSM and of course Warren Buffett will play down gold as he benefits from the irresponsible printing of paper money.
I am not the right person to talk about this but if you are interested to find out why gold is important (it acts like insurance), check out this site:
http://hiddensecretsofmoney.com
Watch the video series as they are excellently done.
Also, here's an article to rebuke what Buffett said about gold. Did you know that his father had endorsed gold?
http://srsroccoreport.com/guest-post-warren-buffett-and-the-investment-value-of-gold/guest-post-warren-buffett-and-the-investment-value-of-gold/
Hope I can shed some light to some myths about gold ;)
-
just to share this that Bloomberg said that watch can be a good investment
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/patek-philippe-and-rolex-building-a-solid-watch-portfolio-57RADzjLTPKizIuimExv7g.html
-
What do you think if we buy AP 15400
It is a good buy for investment?
-
What do you think if we buy AP 15400
It is a good buy for investment?
Yes, it is as good as investing in the currency of the People's Republic of Akhzasban. :thumbsup:
-
Yes, it is as "good" as investing in the currency of the "People's Republic of Akhzasban". :thumbsup:
Fixed. :D
-
On a different note, I have met a person who is good at renovating. He buys a house for his own stay and renovates them. He will then sell if after 2-3 years lock stock and barrel and get good offers for them because he makes the houses looks great and par to the price he is asking for. Then he upgrades to bigger houses with bigger reno budgets. Do note, his houses areas are strictly in Bangsar area only and he have been shifting within this area.
What I obrserve is, he is doing this not from a purely investment kinda things but more like for my own benefit and personal consumption first and then if someone makes a great offer I will re do it again. He is also a furniture dealer on a full time basis.
I guess it's "Do what you know and like first " and if offers come make some money on them.
So if you know what you are investing before pulling the plug I guess
-
Watches are an "investment" only in the sense that you can't spend the cash elsewhere. Buying and hoping for appreciation is not a good idea at all.
-
I've said it before & I'll say it again..U buy shares, unit trust, property, gold etc for investment, but not watches..Especially if u're so called " watch enthusiast, collectors etc". Sure, u might get lucky with some of d watches like what stated in the link above (patek, rolex, omega breitling) but it only covers very ltd model only..Not all model will appreciate in the future. I doubt if it's even more than 5% of the total watch production. & even if yr watches appreciate 30% after let say 20 yrs try to factor in the pv of money, inflation rate etc2. Does it really appreciates?? & the most important part is will u sell yr watch that u really love even if appreciates by 100%? I doubt it unless u really in desperate situation..Sorry, better buy properties..much better form of investment compare to watches. Better chances of earning huge windfall compare to buying & selling watches..Then u can use it to buy more watches.. :Cheers:
-
Not so much an investment, but more like hedging for future price hike, inflation, whatever u name it.
LIke a watch, Buy it now (if you have the extra funds), wear it. Having fun. Then see the price going up. Viola, paper gain with the price different (shock sendiri, assuming u are able to sell it at the price that you bought it). Even without selling it, you still earn for able to buy the watch cheaper before price hike.
Off course, buying now means, less money for investment, opportunity cost etc.
Every purchase have a story, everyone value their watch in their own way. If your "heart" is right, in theory no one will ever lose money for buying a timepiece that you like. We will earn at least "Sentimental" value our from it.
-
Do you like the watch you bought?and to own it you have to go through high and lows?and upon strapping it on your wrist you feel like nothing else matters and you can't stop staring at it every now and then?Not every investment is in the form of cash you know
-
Watches are not short term, high yield investments. But they are an inflation proof investment.
A watch bought new today will retain almost all its resale value (after the depreciation hit) and its resale price goes up in tandem with the inflation rate.
But this only applies to pedigree brands and not the 3rd tier brands which makes up 90% of the watch market today.
Pedigree brands include but not limited to Rolex, Omega, Patek Philippe, Jaeger LeCoultre, AP, and breguet.
These brands will hold their second hand value very well and their 2nd hand value will rise in tandem with the inflation rate.
-
We were just talking about this on another forum!
Some watches do go up in value but not as much as they used to, they are just so expensive now, there is a limit to how much higher they can go in real terms. Also, there is no return on your investment until you sell it. You could have been buying and flipping all kinds of watches with that money.
More pragmatically, if you have a loan of any sort, any other 'investment' must be increasing, as a minimum, at the rate of interest you're paying on your loan just to break even. Then you've got to consider servicing. And insurance...
At a higher level, there are concerns like a slowing luxury goods market in China, and the fact that the Chinese now prefer omega to Rolex. Then the Rolex bubble starts to look just a little bit shaky.
At least there is no capital gains tax on watches!
On another note, I don't want to be racist but Malaysians are always looking to make a quick buck without doing any work. A few years ago it was swallow nest, then bubble tea, then cafe, then patisserie. Everybody jumps on a bandwagon and just kills an industry for short term gain. This is not just my opinion, my Malaysian Father in Law explained this to me recently.
Do you really think you can just walk into a shop and buy an investment? If so, why does anybody bother working? Use your brain man!
-
I got a recent example of you can walk into a shop and buy and investment ! Maybe this is once in a blue moon type of coincidence.
Heard of the New Mercedes Hybrid ? The waiting line is long so some of the buyers are willing to pay a premium of 40K if you are willing to pass your car to the buyer who can't wait.
-
I got a recent example of you can walk into a shop and buy and investment ! Maybe this is once in a blue moon type of coincidence.
Heard of the New Mercedes Hybrid ? The waiting line is long so some of the buyers are willing to pay a premium of 40K if you are willing to pass your car to the buyer who can't wait.
It's difficult to walk in and buy one if there is a waiting list!
Look at it this way. If watches were such great investments, shops wouldn't need to sell them. They could just hold on to them and be rich!
-
....
Look at it this way. If watches were such great investments, shops wouldn't need to sell them. They could just hold on to them and be rich!
It sounds right at first read but somewhat it does not make sense if you think about it. Are companies stocks and properties good choices of investments? Yes. Would you get rich by owning / investing in them? Perhaps or you might lose but this is besides the question. Coming back to your logic, properties developer would not need to the shop lots and houses they build but keep building and holding on to them, right?? :)
Watches basically don't make money for you. it is for your enjoyment. Having spending typically ten to twenty thousands RM on a watch you want to have more options for the watches you owned in case you needed the cash for emergency or what can you do if you get bored with it.
-
I dont think much about investment but more on a hobby.. collect and wear it..
-
It sounds right at first read but somewhat it does not make sense if you think about it. Are companies stocks and properties good choices of investments? Yes. Would you get rich by owning / investing in them? Perhaps or you might lose but this is besides the question. Coming back to your logic, properties developer would not need to the shop lots and houses they build but keep building and holding on to them, right?? :)
Watches basically don't make money for you. it is for your enjoyment. Having spending typically ten to twenty thousands RM on a watch you want to have more options for the watches you owned in case you needed the cash for emergency or what can you do if you get bored with it.
Actually, you sort of made my point for me. Shop lots, houses, and company stocks are productive investments. They represent work undertaken and return on investment (rent). While the capital value may increase (in real terms) the true value, what makes them good investments, is the return. No return on watches.
-
AHa.. sorry... I misunderstood ur earlier statement. My bad.
-
this topic will be brought up all the time.
sales men tell you buy watch for investment because watch price goes up all the time!
PP doing marketing in auction center and watches do keep value.
brand? model? year made? completeness? condition? previous owner? when you sell it? where you sell it?
the above answer will determind the value of the watch
if you buy watch and rent it out then it is investment for sure
-
Watch is like a piece of jewelry nowaday. Our phone can show more accurate time and remind us with alarm.
For investment, I shall say it depends on luck. A friend of mine bought a Rolex for rm28k just before GST and now it is selling Rm35k exclude GST. As long as he is not selling... No profit and not an investment cos he loves the watch so much.
-
Watch is like a piece of jewelry nowaday. Our phone can show more accurate time and remind us with alarm.
For investment, I shall say it depends on luck. A friend of mine bought a Rolex for rm28k just before GST and now it is selling Rm35k exclude GST. As long as he is not selling... No profit and not an investment cos he loves the watch so much.
On a side note, sorry, I'm just curious which particular Rolex your friend bought? Tq
-
Must be the batman or hulk, but not that high as 35k.!. Regards
-
Some has guess it rite. Rm35k was the open price. Maybe can nego I not sure, u can surf n find out if u want to verify, just sharing what was told to me :Cheers:
-
All depends on the piece and the price paid for it. Investment pieces are hard to get. Normally you can't buy from the shop.
Real life example (talking about modern pieces):
If you manage to be able to buy a Patek 5131r (the yellow gold and white gold discontinued now) at retail price it is a solid investment. The problem is you can't buy at retail unless of course you had spend big $$$$$ at the AD or some sort of vip.
Also try looking at the 175 anniversary Patek pieces - if you are allocated a piece you make instant profit. The second hand prices are way over retail. Similar situation as the 5131r.
Check out Patek annual calendar 5396G - if you managed to buy at retail instant profits friends.
Other examples would be vintage pieces. skills required! But hey buy the piece you like and buy it cheap and it may be an investment.
-
All depends on the piece and the price paid for it. Investment pieces are hard to get. Normally you can't buy from the shop.
Real life example (talking about modern pieces):
If you manage to be able to buy a Patek 5131r (the yellow gold and white gold discontinued now) at retail price it is a solid investment. The problem is you can't buy at retail unless of course you had spend big $$$$$ at the AD or some sort of vip.
Also try looking at the 175 anniversary Patek pieces - if you are allocated a piece you make instant profit. The second hand prices are way over retail. Similar situation as the 5131r.
Check out Patek annual calendar 5396G - if you managed to buy at retail instant profits friends.
Other examples would be vintage pieces. skills required! But hey buy the piece you like and buy it cheap and it may be an investment.
If anyone able to get these models, s/he is talking about buying exxon or other big business and not discussing whether watch is an investment tool.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
All depends on the piece and the price paid for it. Investment pieces are hard to get. Normally you can't buy from the shop.
Real life example (talking about modern pieces):
If you manage to be able to buy a Patek 5131r (the yellow gold and white gold discontinued now) at retail price it is a solid investment. The problem is you can't buy at retail unless of course you had spend big $$$$$ at the AD or some sort of vip.
Also try looking at the 175 anniversary Patek pieces - if you are allocated a piece you make instant profit. The second hand prices are way over retail. Similar situation as the 5131r.
Check out Patek annual calendar 5396G - if you managed to buy at retail instant profits friends.
Other examples would be vintage pieces. skills required! But hey buy the piece you like and buy it cheap and it may be an investment.
If anyone able to get these models, s/he is talking about buying exxon or other big business and not discussing whether watch is an investment tool.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I can't afford to buy big companies but I can provide my personal experience:
1) I bought RG Daytona for 30k AUD, after 1 year and 6 months (sold last Friday) I sold it for 32K AUD.
2) I bought Patek Nautilus 5711 blue dial for 26k SGD. I haven't sold this yet. I think I can fetch 29k-30k SGD easy.
3) I bought SS Daytona black dial for RM30k. I can easily sell this for over RM30k.
4) I bought Milgauss GV black dial for 6.5k AUD. Planning to let go for 7k AUD.
5) I bought SS Sub ceramic date black dial for 8k SGD.
6) Now I am looking for AP 15202 40th anniversary at 18k USD. Which I believe I will not lose money if I decide to sell it.
My criteria is simple before I like the piece it has to have strong value retention and I don't want to lose money. After it meets the criteria I can decide whether I like it or not. Since my criteria is strict I am very patient and I will only buy when I get good deals.
The investment returns is not as good as my other investments however I do gain a lot of excitement from this!
-
I can't afford to buy big companies but I can provide my personal experience:
1) I bought RG Daytona for 30k AUD, after 1 year and 6 months (sold last Friday) I sold it for 32K AUD.
2) I bought Patek Nautilus 5711 blue dial for 26k SGD. I haven't sold this yet. I think I can fetch 29k-30k SGD easy.
3) I bought SS Daytona black dial for RM30k. I can easily sell this for over RM30k.
4) I bought Milgauss GV black dial for 6.5k AUD. Planning to let go for 7k AUD.
5) I bought SS Sub ceramic date black dial for 8k SGD.
6) Now I am looking for AP 15202 40th anniversary at 18k USD. Which I believe I will not lose money if I decide to sell it.
My criteria is simple before I like the piece it has to have strong value retention and I don't want to lose money. After it meets the criteria I can decide whether I like it or not. Since my criteria is strict I am very patient and I will only buy when I get good deals.
The investment returns is not as good as my other investments however I do gain a lot of excitement from this!
[/quote]
Good one bro. Ever wonder how watch shop can make big money?
Anyway on a smaller scale
I bought a GMT 16710 4 years ago. 14.5k. Sold it recently for 18k.
Not investment grade but it gives you good excitement.
-
Second hand watch dealers and gray dealers make money cause when you sell them they normally offer few thousand below from the market value. So when they sell they can pocket few Thousand dollars. I spoke to dealer regarding some pieces I owned for example, my rose gold Daytona this dealer in Singapore offering 29,000 sgd for it but they selling a similar piece for 34,500 sgd. instead of selling to dealer I sell to buyer myself. Another example is a dealer in Melbourne Australia I enquired about selling off my nautilus + cash for his 5980. He said he will give me 20k AUD for the nautilus. I just say no thanks I can get 27-28k aud if I sell myself. Also there is a dealer in Sydney Australia that sold blue dial nautilus for 28,800 aud hand piece. He had that piece on the market for less than a week. My point is the dealers will buy from you got thousands of dollars less and sell for way more that's how they make the big $$$$. Buy if you buy pieces hard to shift then hard to sell. That's why I try to limit myself to sought after pieces.
AD make big money cause they buying it at cost maybe 50% off retail. I don't buy my watches from AD unless it's really sought after piece with good price with strong value retention.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
For Rolex watches, the grey dealers I know will normally discount at least 20% off current market prices for cash deals or trade-ins. For some watch owners, this is ok. If the owners want to sell directly through online, be prepared to get all sorts of enquiries! :Mad:
-
Second hand watch dealers and gray dealers make money cause when you sell them they normally offer few thousand below from the market value. So when they sell they can pocket few Thousand dollars. I spoke to dealer regarding some pieces I owned for example, my rose gold Daytona this dealer in Singapore offering 29,000 sgd for it but they selling a similar piece for 34,500 sgd. instead of selling to dealer I sell to buyer myself. Another example is a dealer in Melbourne Australia I enquired about selling off my nautilus + cash for his 5980. He said he will give me 20k AUD for the nautilus. I just say no thanks I can get 27-28k aud if I sell myself. Also there is a dealer in Sydney Australia that sold blue dial nautilus for 28,800 aud hand piece. He had that piece on the market for less than a week. My point is the dealers will buy from you got thousands of dollars less and sell for way more that's how they make the big $$$$. Buy if you buy pieces hard to shift then hard to sell. That's why I try to limit myself to sought after pieces.
AD make big money cause they buying it at cost maybe 50% off retail. I don't buy my watches from AD unless it's really sought after piece with good price with strong value retention.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I disagree.
Yes, used watch dealers do buy watches at a lower price that market selling price.
We have to also consider their overheads for running a brick and mortar place.
For every 1 watch they sold, there might be 10 waiting for buyers.
In order to make the profit, watches have to be sold.
Holding costs have to be calculated as well.
What about warranty costs?
Some preowned shops offer 3-6 months warranty period, that also eats into their margins.
-
.... My point is the dealers will buy from you got thousands of dollars less and sell for way more that's how they make the big $$$$. Buy if you buy pieces hard to shift then hard to sell. That's why I try to limit myself to sought after pieces.
AD make big money cause they buying it at cost maybe 50% off retail. I don't buy my watches from AD unless it's really sought after piece with good price with strong value retention.
Then you are buying wearing watches what other ppl like or wear a small subset of watches in demand. IMO, that pretty limited. Of course, on the up side you don't lose much and perhaps make some money in the process.
-
Also, I doubt the watches for "investment" get much wear at all to retain the 'mint' state. Which does defeat the enjoyment of wearing a watch.
-
Also, I doubt the watches for "investment" get much wear at all to retain the 'mint' state. Which does defeat the enjoyment of wearing a watch.
Exactly! Just enjoy the sheer pleasure of owning and wearing the watch, second hand value is secondary consideration.....if you gain in the process, it's a bonus.....if you want investment return, the mutual fund will give you a better and steady return....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
My own experience is to buy those so called basic brand (Tissot/Mido... etc) 18k solid gold casing automatic watch. Especially, those model or series that are not so trendy and classic that still selling as available model now. For example, Tissot Carson, Mido Commander.
Their values retain quite well due to the solid gold casing. Tissot carson 18k cost about RM3.6k 10yrs ago now is about USD1.3k (i could not find the Tissot AD carries this model in Msia now so could not have RM price reference nowadays, only googling).
-
For me when you say your going to invest in a watch, it means you are going to spend on a brand that you will probably be able to wear (and get serviced) a lifetime and maybe even pass down to your kids. I don't believe in investing in a watch to make more money.
-
Its just another asset you put you financial in, nothing to do with investment :thumbsup:
-
I don't mind if people want to buy a watch for an investment....
But shouldn't you buy a watch that you like and wear it with pride? Shouldn't you enjoy the movement? The craftsmanship? The quality of the materials?
If you buy just solely as an investment... it takes away from the watch and the watch becomes boring. Buy and wear in good health. Build a connection with the watch.
There are other ways to make money that are much better. Like getting a promotion at work and climbing the corporate ladder. Or investing in real investment vehicles like property or fixed deposits or stocks.
Adam