Malaysia Watch Forum
Main Forums => General Discussion - Modern Watches => Topic started by: panlex on December 25, 2013, 08:07:01 AM
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...I am still undecided. But not so much on which brand to choose (I have pretty much decided to go for Panerai or Rolex).
Let me explain:
If you have some spare cash lying around, what do you do if you have to decide between putting money in FD or buying a watch? Will the price of pre-owned watches increase over the years or decrease? Can watches beat inflation? Is watch better off than FD in the long run, say 10 years from now?
(Of course, besides the points that watches can be worn, adored, admired and touched)
Your thoughts? Especially from money value point of view. Appreciate if you could provide some hard figures but not necessary.
Thank you.
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most of the member here buying watch not as investment, instead for the love of the watch
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You don't buy watches as an investment. Of course unless you're planning on buying say the first Rolex Daytona or the famed Eric Clapton's Patek Phillippe 2499 in Platinum or other watches in that category(special vintage watches), chances are, the value won't appreciate much at all if any, taking into account of inflation adjusted value in the future.
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At least hold value, can?
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You got it wrong brother. You wanna invest, go get property.
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Since you're thinking between Panerai/Rolex watch and FD, the FD will win hands down. You will get the initial investment back plus interest.
If you buy a new Rolex watch from an AD, you will lose at least 30% of the amount paid as soon as you walk out the door. If you buy a used one from the dealer, you will lose between 10-20% or more when trading it back in.
The hype about the steel Daytona, GMT master, green bezel Submariner 16610 is almost gone.
Buy a watch to wear and enjoy. If it retains it's value or appreciates in 20 years time, that's a bonus.
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At least hold value, can?
Very unlikely that it can hold it's value especially when you're talking about 10 years or more, factor in the wear (unless you plan on locking it away in a safe all the time) and also the servicing costs, it's unlikely to be able to sell it and get back the money you paid for it, unless of course it turns out to be a very special, rare, one-of-a-kind watch in the future. Property, stocks, FD are all better investments and they only require you to do some homework to get a good deal.
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Buy a Rolex rm20k
Wear it for 10 yrs!
Sell rm20k at that time... Sound loosing? Due to money value drop...
But ... Man!
U get to wear a Rolex for 10 yrs! Ppl ard u wear rm1k watch... Probably already changed 2-3 watches... Their watch spoiled or worth nearly zero after 10 yrs!
Oh man! Ppl ard u look u up with ur Rolex on ur wrist for 10 yrs!
N u tell urself u r now wearing Rolek for 10 yrs! Not a cheapo watch!
So y compare with FD?
U gain a status, u gain self satisfaction, u gain admiring ....
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I never think of buying watch for investment. You have many much better investment options than watch. You may get lucky if u own a rare piece or some models which may be very sought after let say 10yrs down the road.
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Not for investment. Status yes. Rolex vs Panerai. For me Rolex. Based on your budget, Datejust or Sub
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Watches really generally not investments. Buy a watch that pleases you, not one that is meant to garner the admiration of others.
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Watches really generally not investments. Buy a watch that pleases you, not one that is meant to garner the admiration of others.
I agree, otherwise if you want other ppl to admire your wrist, you might as well tape a stack of money to it; gives you the same result
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Wonder why need stuck the money in fd?
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Wonder why need stuck the money in fd?
Why not? Conventional financial planning requires you to save 6-8 months of emergency fund in something safe and liquid i.e. FD
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Sounds like a lot of cold water being poured.....but that's the reality. I have more than a sneaking suspicion that the appreciation of watches is a fallacy conjured up by watch companies or owners seeking some justification.
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I really appreciate all the responses though they sounded negative but hey... these are facts.
At least for now, after your feedback, I don't live in a fantasy world thinking my watch will make me money in the future if I sell it later. At least my mentality of buying a watch is on the right track. Let's forget about making money and just enjoy the watch!
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:thumbsup:.. Great that you understand now Watches is never an investment.. Just buy, wear and enjoy it.. Happy boxing day
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Buy property, buy shares, buy bond, unit trust etc2...not watch for investment... :Cheers:
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...I am still undecided. But not so much on which brand to choose (I have pretty much decided to go for Panerai or Rolex).
Let me explain:
If you have some spare cash lying around, what do you do if you have to decide between putting money in FD or buying a watch? Will the price of pre-owned watches increase over the years or decrease? Can watches beat inflation? Is watch better off than FD in the long run, say 10 years from now?
(Of course, besides the points that watches can be worn, adored, admired and touched)
Your thoughts? Especially from money value point of view. Appreciate if you could provide some hard figures but not necessary.
Thank you.
investing in fd will give u faster return. though the rule of thumb here is never invest in a watch but enjoy it instead, i personally feel it really depends.
it's the slower rate of increase in ur watch value that can't cope with other investment instruments. however, not forgetting the fact that no one can guarantee returns in ur investment except fd.
the c fu's here r right, if u buy from ad's, u will sure lose money once u walk out of their doors. buying preowned pcs will reduce ur risk of losing money drastically. however, there's exception from my personal experience buying from ad. i bought a brand new sub lv at list price in 2008, if i sell it today i still make some money after 5 yrs of enjoyment.
certain rolex sports models have pretty stable value growth throughout the yrs. rule of thumb of "investing" in a rolex is never pay more than its list price. happy hunting 8)
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Since you're thinking between Panerai/Rolex watch and FD, the FD will win hands down. You will get the initial investment back plus interest.
If you buy a new Rolex watch from an AD, you will lose at least 30% of the amount paid as soon as you walk out the door. If you buy a used one from the dealer, you will lose between 10-20% or more when trading it back in.
The hype about the steel Daytona, GMT master, green bezel Submariner 16610 is almost gone.
Buy a watch to wear and enjoy. If it retains it's value or appreciates in 20 years time, that's a bonus.
As far i know ad's in KL and in Australia are still selling daytona at premium. Keep telling me its rare and shits :thumbsdown:
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...I am still undecided. But not so much on which brand to choose (I have pretty much decided to go for Panerai or Rolex).
Let me explain:
If you have some spare cash lying around, what do you do if you have to decide between putting money in FD or buying a watch? Will the price of pre-owned watches increase over the years or decrease? Can watches beat inflation? Is watch better off than FD in the long run, say 10 years from now?
(Of course, besides the points that watches can be worn, adored, admired and touched)
Your thoughts? Especially from money value point of view. Appreciate if you could provide some hard figures but not necessary.
Thank you.
investing in fd will give u faster return. though the rule of thumb here is never invest in a watch but enjoy it instead, i personally feel it really depends.
it's the slower rate of increase in ur watch value that can't cope with other investment instruments. however, not forgetting the fact that no one can guarantee returns in ur investment except fd.
the c fu's here r right, if u buy from ad's, u will sure lose money once u walk out of their doors. buying preowned pcs will reduce ur risk of losing money drastically. however, there's exception from my personal experience buying from ad. i bought a brand new sub lv at list price in 2008, if i sell it today i still make some money after 5 yrs of enjoyment.
certain rolex sports models have pretty stable value growth throughout the yrs. rule of thumb of "investing" in a rolex is never pay more than its list price. happy hunting 8)
If you think you can sell for the prices dealers are asking, prepare to be disappointed. Firstly, dealers will not buy used watches at the prices they sell them for. And secondly, watches never sell at the prices dealers are asking or posted. There is always a discount negotiated and sometimes it can be substantial.
For eg., the same used Rolex 16570 that dealers are asking 14-15k for can't even be sold for 13k on the market. Take that as a comparison.
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As far i know ad's in KL and in Australia are still selling daytona at premium. Keep telling me its rare and shits :thumbsdown:
Not sure about KL, but highly unlikely that is the case here in Australia. Even in WA, retail has died in the arse. One of the Rolex ADs in Perth has recently downsized by half. If any retailer tried to charge me a premium for anything over here I would first laugh my arse off in their face and then go shop elsewhere.
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hi,
I haven't visited Oz since 2000 but been there like 9 times between 1990-2000.
At that time I found the prices of timepieces in Oz really high...I mean new pieces.
Is the situation there now different and how abt pricing of pre-owned?
A forummer here once posted a pic of a pre-owned shop that was 'holy shit'....well stocked with top shelf stuff. I forgot who or was it Gigi....but he commented that the prices were also on the high side when compared with those published on sites like WUS, Timezone, etc..
As far i know ad's in KL and in Australia are still selling daytona at premium. Keep telling me its rare and shits :thumbsdown:
Not sure about KL, but highly unlikely that is the case here in Australia. Even in WA, retail has died in the arse. One of the Rolex ADs in Perth has recently downsized by half. If any retailer tried to charge me a premium for anything over here I would first laugh my arse off in their face and then go shop elsewhere.
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Your fellow forummer was unfortunately 100% correct. Australia is now one of the most expensive countries in the world, whatever you're buying.
No shortage of good stuff here - watches, wines, cars, houses, whatever you want we can get it for you - but be prepared to bend over and take it like a man!
hi,
I haven't visited Oz since 2000 but been there like 9 times between 1990-2000.
At that time I found the prices of timepieces in Oz really high...I mean new pieces.
Is the situation there now different and how abt pricing of pre-owned?
A forummer here once posted a pic of a pre-owned shop that was 'holy shit'....well stocked with top shelf stuff. I forgot who or was it Gigi....but he commented that the prices were also on the high side when compared with those published on sites like WUS, Timezone, etc..
As far i know ad's in KL and in Australia are still selling daytona at premium. Keep telling me its rare and shits :thumbsdown:
Not sure about KL, but highly unlikely that is the case here in Australia. Even in WA, retail has died in the arse. One of the Rolex ADs in Perth has recently downsized by half. If any retailer tried to charge me a premium for anything over here I would first laugh my arse off in their face and then go shop elsewhere.
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If you think you can sell for the prices dealers are asking, prepare to be disappointed. Firstly, dealers will not buy used watches at the prices they sell them for. And secondly, watches never sell at the prices dealers are asking or posted. There is always a discount negotiated and sometimes it can be substantial.
For eg., the same used Rolex 16570 that dealers are asking 14-15k for can't even be sold for 13k on the market. Take that as a comparison.
i'm quoting the price which the dealer can take now is the same as the list price i paid earlier ;) if i sell direct, it can fetch more.
for 16570, i wonder if it is less desirable among sports models. but for sure it's way over supplied. hence, its price nosedives.
the same goes for ss daytona now. should any ad ask for premium, just walk away. it is quite similar to the fate of 16570 now = seen at dealers' shelves everywhere
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Cars much cheaper than Malaysia..
I would be able to afford a entry level Porsche with the price I paid for my Audi in KL.
Wines are dirt cheap in Oz... in KL we pay AUD 20-30 a bottle for a non medal winning Penfolds or a French, S.African, S.American, N.American equivalent wine.
Beer is dirt cheap in Oz.. a pint in KL is equivalent to AUD 6 using a neutral Heineken
Agree on houses but if you earn dollar for dollar without converting its almost the same..
A decent 1,200-1,300 sq ft condo in KL costs between 500,000 to 800,000 depending on location.
Watches... ermm that I have no idea..
Food is cheap though in Malaysia.. IF you don't go to hotels and high end restaurants.
But dun forget that my wife has an offer to do the same job in Oz for abt 1.6 times the yearly salary, dollar to dollar no conversion...just imagine if a AUD to RM conversion is put in d equation
But then your income tax is 40% vs our 26% but at least your 40% goes back to you in terms of benefits without govt wastage and its shared equal to all..
That's before we even talk abt cost of education between Oz and here..
Your fellow forummer was unfortunately 100% correct. Australia is now one of the most expensive countries in the world, whatever you're buying.
No shortage of good stuff here - watches, wines, cars, houses, whatever you want we can get it for you - but be prepared to bend over and take it like a man!
hi,
I haven't visited Oz since 2000 but been there like 9 times between 1990-2000.
At that time I found the prices of timepieces in Oz really high...I mean new pieces.
Is the situation there now different and how abt pricing of pre-owned?
A forummer here once posted a pic of a pre-owned shop that was 'holy shit'....well stocked with top shelf stuff. I forgot who or was it Gigi....but he commented that the prices were also on the high side when compared with those published on sites like WUS, Timezone, etc..
As far i know ad's in KL and in Australia are still selling daytona at premium. Keep telling me its rare and shits :thumbsdown:
Not sure about KL, but highly unlikely that is the case here in Australia. Even in WA, retail has died in the arse. One of the Rolex ADs in Perth has recently downsized by half. If any retailer tried to charge me a premium for anything over here I would first laugh my arse off in their face and then go shop elsewhere.
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Every where is the same as long the governments keep printing money like there's no tomorrow. Prices of things will definitely go up. People of Malaysia are feeling the heat now, more so in 2014.
Your fellow forummer was unfortunately 100% correct. Australia is now one of the most expensive countries in the world, whatever you're buying.
No shortage of good stuff here - watches, wines, cars, houses, whatever you want we can get it for you - but be prepared to bend over and take it like a man!
hi,
I haven't visited Oz since 2000 but been there like 9 times between 1990-2000.
At that time I found the prices of timepieces in Oz really high...I mean new pieces.
Is the situation there now different and how abt pricing of pre-owned?
A forummer here once posted a pic of a pre-owned shop that was 'holy shit'....well stocked with top shelf stuff. I forgot who or was it Gigi....but he commented that the prices were also on the high side when compared with those published on sites like WUS, Timezone, etc..
As far i know ad's in KL and in Australia are still selling daytona at premium. Keep telling me its rare and shits :thumbsdown:
Not sure about KL, but highly unlikely that is the case here in Australia. Even in WA, retail has died in the arse. One of the Rolex ADs in Perth has recently downsized by half. If any retailer tried to charge me a premium for anything over here I would first laugh my arse off in their face and then go shop elsewhere.
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Surprisingly I got extremely good prices for my purchases in Australia whilst I was there for the whole of 2012 and the beginning of 2013. The thing with Australia is this, things in the AD are very expensive. I go to the grey dealers and have good repertoires with them for the best bargains. At times it is not so much the price but the rarity of the piece as well. Also I noticed there is a trend. Anything AUD9000 and below is expensive e.g:- a 16610 goes for RM17,000 used. However, anything AUD20,000 and above is cheap i.e:- Brand new AP Panda on bracelet going for the equivalent of RM46,000. And never go vintage. Vintage watch prices in Australia is crazy. Just my experience.
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So its only feasible to buy watches costing equivalent of RM 60K and above like AP ROO, PP, VC and AHCIs etc?
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As far i know ad's in KL and in Australia are still selling daytona at premium. Keep telling me its rare and shits :thumbsdown:
Not sure about KL, but highly unlikely that is the case here in Australia. Even in WA, retail has died in the arse. One of the Rolex ADs in Perth has recently downsized by half. If any retailer tried to charge me a premium for anything over here I would first laugh my arse off in their face and then go shop elsewhere.
The only rolex ad in Brisbane it seems to do quite well before i left there. Maybe perhaps mainland Chinese are feeding the shop. I not sure about how it was doing it now. Watches of Switzerland have closed down their shop on July and require unfinished business to deal with melbourne store. Somewhat Hour glass opened new branch there in Brissie. THey are doing particularly well in Panerai as it most asian consumers buys from them as they had more stuff than ad in KL.
Vintage watch market are bigger in Aussie in my opinion, that being said the price for mint vintage watch are not cheap when compared elsewhere. For sure they stand by their stuff they and will try their best to help you if shit happends. :) If wanna sell of vintage watch better trade in back at the shop where you bought from.
If you manage to gain good deal, gst claim will make whole thing sweeter.
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So its only feasible to buy watches costing equivalent of RM 60K and above like AP ROO, PP, VC and AHCIs etc?
That is if you bought from grey dealer or used watch dealer. AD's at time will have better deal than those of ad's in KL. Gotta study before you pull trigger. :)
Cars much cheaper than Malaysia..
I would be able to afford a entry level Porsche with the price I paid for my Audi in KL.
Wines are dirt cheap in Oz... in KL we pay AUD 20-30 a bottle for a non medal winning Penfolds or a French, S.African, S.American, N.American equivalent wine.
Beer is dirt cheap in Oz.. a pint in KL is equivalent to AUD 6 using a neutral Heineken
Car are seriously damn cheap especially used cars. 5k AUD can get you some good reliable but slightly old toyota's. But the insurance and petrol are the deal breaker. Petrol price are adjusted daily and weekend are usually the most expensive. Diff petrol station at diff place had diff price.
Alcohol is cheap if you buy and drink it at home. Its pain in the butt if you try to drink at pubs. Not to mention the amount of drunken ppl around the street on weekend :laugh:
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Aware abt the insurance, petrol thingy….
Raw materials in Oz is cheap but labour costs is the killer.
Each time I was in Oz over the 9 times or so I visited, I usually stayed a week to 10 days..so I've driven around, gone pub hopping, etc
So its only feasible to buy watches costing equivalent of RM 60K and above like AP ROO, PP, VC and AHCIs etc?
That is if you bought from grey dealer or used watch dealer. AD's at time will have better deal than those of ad's in KL. Gotta study before you pull trigger. :)
Cars much cheaper than Malaysia..
I would be able to afford a entry level Porsche with the price I paid for my Audi in KL.
Wines are dirt cheap in Oz... in KL we pay AUD 20-30 a bottle for a non medal winning Penfolds or a French, S.African, S.American, N.American equivalent wine.
Beer is dirt cheap in Oz.. a pint in KL is equivalent to AUD 6 using a neutral Heineken
Car are seriously damn cheap especially used cars. 5k AUD can get you some good reliable but slightly old toyota's. But the insurance and petrol are the deal breaker. Petrol price are adjusted daily and weekend are usually the most expensive. Diff petrol station at diff place had diff price.
Alcohol is cheap if you buy and drink it at home. Its pain in the butt if you try to drink at pubs. Not to mention the amount of drunken ppl around the street on weekend :laugh:
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It's interesting that you guys seem to think living is quite affordable here.
Imported cars are obviously extremely expensive in Malaysia, but compared to, say, the USA or UK, cars here are expensive. Wine, too. But it's not like anybody is forcing you to buy an imported car or drink wine.
You gotta eat. The cheapest meal here, if you eat out, would be AU$8. Wanna beer with that? AU$10.
You need a roof over your head, too. It's too expensive to live in Sydney, so you move to Perth or Adelaide. AU$500,000+, thanks, for a basic house on a tiny block 30 minutes from a State capital! Oh yeah, that is after you find a 20% deposit and pay 6% interest on your loan. Plus, maybe another 10-20% of the value of the house in taxes and duties.
Which, as you pointed out, is after the government has taxed your income at 30-40%!
Fuel? AU$1.50 / L
Electricity and water? AU$2-400 / month
Interesting comments about the expensive watches here. I don't shop in the AUD$20k range, so I wouldn't know, but a US$300 Seiko retails for AU$600-700 here. Seriously. A B01 Navitimer on bracelet is something like AU$11k, at least $2k more than other markets.
Not having a whinge, I love this place. But most other countries seem more affordable.
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It's interesting that you guys seem to think living is quite affordable here.
Imported cars are obviously extremely expensive in Malaysia, but compared to, say, the USA or UK, cars here are expensive. Wine, too. But it's not like anybody is forcing you to buy an imported car or drink wine.
You gotta eat. The cheapest meal here, if you eat out, would be AU$8. Wanna beer with that? AU$10.
You need a roof over your head, too. It's too expensive to live in Sydney, so you move to Perth or Adelaide. AU$500,000+, thanks, for a basic house on a tiny block 30 minutes from a State capital! Oh yeah, that is after you find a 20% deposit and pay 6% interest on your loan. Plus, maybe another 10-20% of the value of the house in taxes and duties.
Which, as you pointed out, is after the government has taxed your income at 30-40%!
Fuel? AU$1.50 / L
Electricity and water? AU$2-400 / month
Interesting comments about the expensive watches here. I don't shop in the AUD$20k range, so I wouldn't know, but a US$300 Seiko retails for AU$600-700 here. Seriously. A B01 Navitimer on bracelet is something like AU$11k, at least $2k more than other markets.
Not having a whinge, I love this place. But most other countries seem more affordable.
my bro in Brisbane just bought a 30 year old landed 600+sm land size single storey bungalow for less than AUD490k... he's paying 20% down because he doesn't want to fork out an additional AUD9k insurance...
if in KL, not even KL, don't think one will be able to get that kind of land size even if you put RM1Mil
and his interest rate is less than 5% which is surprising because it was 6% when i checked last year ???
anyway, haven't got the full details of his purchase yet since he just got his loan approved last weekend... hope to know more on what the up front costs are...
i was in Aussie for studies a decade ago and yes... AUD8 is not cheap and surprisingly when you mentioned AUD8, seems like it didn't go up much or at all over the years... the chicken rice i had in a Melbourne foodcourt was AUD7...
yesterday i had a medium sized wanton mee for RM6 in a hawker centre in SS15 Subang, that's not cheap too
tax wise, its not exactly that high unless you are you income is high:
http://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Income-and-deductions/How-much-income-tax-you-pay/Individual-income-tax-rates/
most important is i'm more willing to pay tax (if i'm in Aussie) since the tax is used properly and not short changed like in Malaysia...
no idea about watches but i've been reading this watch thread in the Whirlpool forum and them Aussies are :Scolding: how expensive watches are in Australia
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my bro in Brisbane just bought a 30 year old landed 600+sm land size single storey bungalow for less than AUD490k... he's paying 20% down because he doesn't want to fork out an additional AUD9k insurance...
if in KL, not even KL, don't think one will be able to get that kind of land size even if you put RM1Mil
and his interest rate is less than 5% which is surprising because it was 6% when i checked last year ???
anyway, haven't got the full details of his purchase yet since he just got his loan approved last weekend... hope to know more on what the up front costs are...
i was in Aussie for studies a decade ago and yes... AUD8 is not cheap and surprisingly when you mentioned AUD8, seems like it didn't go up much or at all over the years... the chicken rice i had in a Melbourne foodcourt was AUD7...
yesterday i had a medium sized wanton mee for RM6 in a hawker centre in SS15 Subang, that's not cheap too
tax wise, its not exactly that high unless you are you income is high:
http://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Income-and-deductions/How-much-income-tax-you-pay/Individual-income-tax-rates/
most important is i'm more willing to pay tax (if i'm in Aussie) since the tax is used properly and not short changed like in Malaysia...
no idea about watches but i've been reading this watch thread in the Whirlpool forum and them Aussies are :Scolding: how expensive watches are in Australia
First up, congratulations to your brother. Home ownership is a huge achievement in this country - one that is becoming increasingly unlikely for an increasing number for Australians, unfortunately. The price of that house will depend largely on how close it is to the CBD, which you didn't mention. You can't compare it to KL, because KL is the national capital (well, there's Putra Jaya, but you know what I mean) - you would need to compare Sydney prices with KL prices. Brisbane prices could be compared to a place like Malacca, Georgetown, or Pt Dickson maybe. Regardless, RM1,000,000 is only AUD$330,000, so only a small fraction of the price of an outer surburban Brisbane house, let alone an inner suburban Sydney house.
AU$8 would be the realistic ABSOLUTE cheapest price to eat out. Maybe McDonalds, or a rice/noodles at a food court. AU$10-12 is a more typical budget price.
RM6 is not bad for wanton mee, is it? That is like AU$2. I think we eat cheaper than that at PJ, but I cannot really remember. Last time in KL I did feel that, in the city proper, food and drink prices have risen quite a bit.
OK, so I have been ignoring PPP, but that can be subjective and hard to quantify, with so many variables. What can be quantified is that when you convert prices in every country to US$, Australia is mighty pricey.
But you get what you pay for :thumbsup:
ps - any Aussie would laugh their arse off at the comments that our taxes are spent wisely!!!
:D
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well, Sydney's always been expensive... i still remembered i asked a friend about a pigeon hole somewhere along Paramatta 2-3 years back... it was already around AUD500k...
Can't be converting like that since we are earning and spending in out own respective countries... AUD2 wonton mee to you is forever dirt cheap while an RM30 McD to me definitely out of reach :'(
somehow... most people think the grass is greener on the other side :Laughing_on_floor:
good to have some Aussie locals sharing their life experiences there... lots of consideration before taking the big leap...
i missed my uni days there, not sure if my missus will have the same feeling :Praying:
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All collection watch are really impressive and nice look. and All watch are advance feature for alarm .
Thanks for providing information.