Author Topic: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??  (Read 168648 times)

Offline Enkidu

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2012, 09:28:20 PM »
Being good in marketing does not make a fashion brand, nor is it a crime.

I never said it does.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 09:31:47 PM by Enkidu »

Offline nuartogel

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2012, 09:40:03 PM »
i dont think people who bought the PAM348 Lo Scienziato Radiomir Tourbillon GMT, will find it fashionable nor groovy. he would just adore its complications.

i dont think they're fashion house brands... the people who buys them because they see other people bought them, might be thinking otherwise

they're not guess or DKNY

anyway... im NEUTRAL... peace  ;D

Offline Plankton-IkanBilis

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2012, 09:42:35 PM »
Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??...frankly, I think that is rather harsh.

However, it all boils down to the owner conglomerate's business philosophy...a "fashion house watchmaker"...quite possible.
Let's give them another 5 years...maybe we can clearly see which path they plan to take.

Some 10 years ago, I had my skepticism about Franck Muller despite it being the flavour of the "day~month~only a few years"...as for Panerai, my sentiments (personal) are the same. Eventhough I have never owned one despite being offered several times a decade ago, I honestly hope that Pannerai's substance prevail instead of just hype.

In a perfect world, it would be great to get comments and views from the people at Anomino - read up to those who don't know the link between Anomino and Panerai.



 

Offline chrisyen

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2012, 09:49:30 PM »
Pam rich with history?

Nah... After Richemont took over, they goreng history!
Jus few watches by rolex also rich history? Information misled u brother...

Now a manufacture ? Err... I think they borrow jlc designer from their group design for them... So end up big movement small balance... Imbalance! big tool watch look, But fragile dress watch type of movement

Poor finishing? True n false
The old handwind movement is well finished! But not by them .., soprod modify it!
Y gd finishing? Eta 6497 ugly bridge been changed, rhodium plated, blue screw, perlage on base plate, bevel on bridges edge, beautiful big swan neck....
Current manufacture movement - ugly small balance, ugly bridges n finishing...


But is it a fashion watch? y r u arguing this?
Rolex watch not a fashion? U use it to dive? Tell u time? Green hulk, gv, diamond, yellow gold.... Rolex make much more bling bling model than pam...
All watches is fashion watch... Even the seiko 5 hv hundreds design to show ur different character....

Pam good looking? Subjective... If it sing for u then beautiful lor...

Pam all look the same? If u not following then definitely...
So as rolex... But if u fell in live, wording put below 12 or above 6 also different, gold Gand or black hand?
Rolex boy some more tell u Metre first or feet first... Red Color sub cost u double... Double red cost u... Heaven!!!


Offline sm

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2012, 09:58:36 PM »
I think pam's marketing program is average. In fact omega spends more on above the line advertising. But definitely the legion of paneristis and fans have created a novelty and a 'happening' brand.

In that Rolexland(HK), it stl has a lot of legwork to accomplish to b amongst the leading brand.  BTw, HK has replaced US as the biggest importer of swiss watches(probably cos of chinaland).

Tq

Offline TheHobbit

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2012, 10:00:10 PM »
Well prior to 1993, Panerai was making watches for the military, total of 300 odd watches? Between 1993 to 1997, consider the lost years, midst of bankruptcy and being purchased by vendome. 1997, trial year, acceptability of a 44 mm watch by the general public.

Why 2005? Perhaps it is time to move up the food chain? Time for it to be a manufacture? Already got the funds? Got the factory? Who knows?

The basic thing is, we have to decide what do you mean fashion brand? Successful marketing? Strap change? Poor movement quality? Ok, one mistake, bad one at that with the pam318. At least they offered to change the movement? Would other companies have done the same? Who know? Did Rolex do the same which the faded explorer II white dial that because yellow? Did they offer to change the dials that cracked in the submariner? I don't know if they did.

So to say that Panerai is a fashion brand because of their success in milking he public in general, I say no, just good if not great marketing.

To me a fashion brand is one that gets someone else to make their watches, like Hugo boss or nautica or Adidas. A company that makes its own movement, regardless good or bad, it's own cases, have a design team, factory, and even makes and design for other brands, Ferrari and even montblanc can't be a fashion brand. It may not be the best at making watches, but it is for sure not a fashion brand.

At least it tries. New movements, new complication, new cases, new materials, etc. successful or not, at least it tries. You have to give it that. At least it does not sit on past glories, contented and continue to curn out the same thing over and over again, good or great as it may be. That to me is a sign of a true and great watchmaker. Take the risk, try something new, explore, go where no man has gone before. How many watch companies are doing that now? Yes it helps that you have the support of the parent company, deep pockets, strong (cult) customer base and able to milk it for what it is worth. That is no crime. That is good marketing.

So is Panerai a fashion brand? Nope, far from it.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 10:02:55 PM by TheHobbit »

Offline Enkidu

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2012, 10:53:34 PM »
To me a fashion brand is one that gets someone else to make their watches, like Hugo boss or nautica or Adidas. A company that makes its own movement, regardless good or bad, it's own cases, have a design team, factory, and even makes and design for other brands, Ferrari and even montblanc can't be a fashion brand. It may not be the best at making watches, but it is for sure not a fashion brand.

At least it tries. New movements, new complication, new cases, new materials, etc. successful or not, at least it tries. You have to give it that. At least it does not sit on past glories, contented and continue to curn out the same thing over and over again, good or great as it may be. That to me is a sign of a true and great watchmaker. Take the risk, try something new, explore, go where no man has gone before. How many watch companies are doing that now? Yes it helps that you have the support of the parent company, deep pockets, strong (cult) customer base and able to milk it for what it is worth. That is no crime. That is good marketing.

So is Panerai a fashion brand? Nope, far from it.

I say OP is a fashion house because it's more concerned with the cosmetics than the performance of the watch. Please go to my 1st post above. Chris bamboozled us with lots of facts, but let me just answer that Seiko does not sell the Seiko 5 because of its cosmetics per se, the fives are known to be very sturdy and reliable watches (with its own in-house movement) for the price we pay. Rolex makes lots of bling bling, but these are bling bling with very very reliable in-house movements. Likewise, Seiko also has lots of Bling bling in its credor line & dolce line, but that again is complemented by super movements.

The fact that OP is attempting to move up the food chain by having its own movement is no doubt encouraging, but that does not detract (still) from the fact that the company appears more concerned with the dial, colour of its patina etc than what's within. And purchasers are more concerned with which strap suits the patina & whether he is the only fella in the whole of  Malaysia having that particular piece than what's within.



   

Offline TheHobbit

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2012, 12:09:36 AM »

I say OP is a fashion house because it's more concerned with the cosmetics than the performance of the watch. Please go to my 1st post above. Chris bamboozled us with lots of facts, but let me just answer that Seiko does not sell the Seiko 5 because of its cosmetics per se, the fives are known to be very sturdy and reliable watches (with its own in-house movement) for the price we pay. Rolex makes lots of bling bling, but these are bling bling with very very reliable in-house movements. Likewise, Seiko also has lots of Bling bling in its credor line & dolce line, but that again is complemented by super movements.

The fact that OP is attempting to move up the food chain by having its own movement is no doubt encouraging, but that does not detract (still) from the fact that the company appears more concerned with the dial, colour of its patina etc than what's within. And purchasers are more concerned with which strap suits the patina & whether he is the only fella in the whole of  Malaysia having that particular piece than what's within.



 

Enkidu,

You hit the nail right on the head. Panerai does exactly what Rolex or Seiko does. With a robust eta/Unitas movement powering the watch, allows it to play with the presentation, ie the dial, the hands, etc. How does this make Panerai a fashion brand? Panerai has always used outside movements to power it's watches,from Rolex / corterbert to angelus to eta to Unitas to zenith to well the list goes on. All good and reliable engines. Introducing its own movement is just the next logical step. Again the new movements are reliable, robust and strong. And again, the focus moves to presentation, offering what it's customers want, information gathered via relevant sites. How is this different from any other brands? Are you saying the movements are not reliable?

Functionality? Well, you have watches from the historic range the looks and feels like the watches Panerai issued long time ago. Is it functional? Must be since it was used by the divers back in the day and those did not have the dive bezel as well. Want something more contemporary? Something that looks more like the divers that you are familiar with with the diving bezel and all? Just look at the contemporary collection, look at the submersible. Look at the depth gauge watches. They do what they are suppose to do. Powered by the reliable and robust 7750p1, what else is there for Panerai to do? Focus on the presentation, ie dial and whatever else. Does that make it a fashion brand?

Just because the company appears to focus on presentation, does not make it a fashion brand.

Just because the people who buys Panerai watches are focused on getting special straps to match the patina, does not make Panerai a fashion brand. That is the buyer. The only thing Panerai can be guilty of is that it can focus on the presentation and deliver what the customer wants and in most cases it tells the customer what they want. There is a need to separate buyer and seller.

So an interesting question, if Rolex customers are focused on getting nice straps, does that make Rolex a fashion brand? No because it has a superior in house movement? If Rolex decides to issue a watch with ecru lume (faux patina), does it make Rolex a fashion brand? No, because it has a superior in house movement? Or no because it appears that it is not focusing on appearance?

Rolex introduced the new explorer II with the so called floating hand effect. Guess what, little brother did it better with the pelagos. Rolex introduced a host of watches in Basel 2012, but guess what, little brother took the excitement away. Perhaps it is time for Rolex to focus a bit more on appearance. But wait, that would make it a fashion brand.........


Offline G.MAC

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2012, 03:53:49 AM »
To put Panerai in the same category as DKNY or Dior is a little harsh. IMO, all watches are a part of fashion. I believe that Panerai started the big watch craze successfully. Up till the turn of the millenium, 40mm was considered to be the limit of what a watch size should be. When the 'modern' Panerai released its collection with watches at 44mm and above, nearly every other brand tried to increase their watch sizes or at least 'make' theirs look bigger. Not many manufacturer can claim to have started a craze or trend other than Rolex who set the standards on how a diver should be with the submariner. However, Panerai is a real watchmaker. The fact that they do not produce other things would indicate so. We dont see Panerai perfume, shirts, bags, or other peripheralia. The only thing I dont understand is the strap culture. I rather have different Panerai with the same strap rather than the same Panerai in different straps (I wish). Truth be told, I highly doubt anyone in today's society other than WIS cares what is in a watch. As long as it looks good, everyone is wearing one, people know the true value...it is enough. An analogy can be drawn to Rolex. When the Sea Dweller first came out, people were saying that it is too big, too thick and chunky. This was the era of the Datejust. Look at how successful it turned out to be. Rolex then went on to make the Deepsea. Again the complain was that it is too big, too thick and too chunky. After a while, I think people try to fit the watch as opposed to the watch fitting them. Evolving to meet the market demand does not in any way make it a fashion brand. It is just smart business. In conclusion, to each their own. There maybe a debate going on but just accept that each has their own opinion and nothing you say is going to change the other person's mind.
Your ONLY job in this world is to make sure that you are happy

Offline Enkidu

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2012, 07:11:43 AM »

Panerai does exactly what Rolex or Seiko does. With a robust eta/Unitas movement powering the watch, allows it to play with the presentation, ie the dial, the hands, etc. How does this make Panerai a fashion brand? Panerai has always used outside movements to power it's watches,from Rolex / corterbert to angelus to eta to Unitas to zenith to well the list goes on.

My only reaction to your above shocking statement is best explained by a quote I read many years ago. To quote the great physicist Wolfgang Pauli - Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch - Not only is it not right, worse, it's not even wrong. On the one hand you argue that Panerai does exactly what Seiko and/or Rolex does, and on the other you claim that Panerai has always been sourcing movements from outsiders so that they could concentrate on the presentation. Or have you probed the inverse, that they have been sourcing for movements from outside because all they want is to concentrate on the presentation. I have nothing more to add about their woeful (or perhaps just half-hearted) attempt on making its own movement. Just go to Chris's posting above.

To be fair, PAM is not the only company indulging in cosmetics - brands like B&R, Longines, Breitling etc all come to mind. But PAM stands out on a league of its own. At least B&R and Breitling try (OK, maybe a little too boastful and unsuccesfully) to link itself to some performance indicia - aviator's professional watches. But PAM?? - patina, strap, sandwich dial..... Need I say more on this sunny Tuesday morning?

Additional notes: I suspect some members may wish to rebut that Rolex boys are also concerned about patina, gilt dial, metre first dial etc. My argument here is not concerned about collectability of a pre-owned piece and Rolex certainly did not make watches with golden patina.
 

« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 07:31:47 AM by Enkidu »

Offline Enkidu

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2012, 07:21:36 AM »
Evolving to meet the market demand does not in any way make it a fashion brand. It is just smart business.

I am not sure if anyone here has said evolving to meet market demand will make PAM a fashion brand. Neither did anyone say it's not smart business.

Offline pexus

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2012, 07:40:34 AM »
Evolving to meet the market demand does not in any way make it a fashion brand. It is just smart business.

I am not sure if anyone here has said evolving to meet market demand will make PAM a fashion brand. Neither did anyone say it's not smart business.

Endiku..no offense but...

`company is more concerned about cosmetics than the actual performance of the watches themselves'
`I say OP is a fashion house because it's more concerned with the cosmetics than the performance of the watch'

I think these statements (that OP is a company that is very concerned about cosmetics....) is not very different from claiming that they are evolving to meet market demand. IF OP is truly interested in cosmetics (appearance, style, exterior) ..then its logical to assume that they will have to change to meet what consumers want...

or do we need quote from Charles Darwin to understand  the true meaning of evolving?

`Learning to appreciate my watch as a tool, and not some fancy branded jewelry'

Offline TheHobbit

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2012, 07:53:12 AM »
Have we established that the panerai in house movement is bad? It may not look good, but is it a poor movement? All we have establish thus far is that to some, the movement does not look good, not balanced and perhaps half hearted attempt. But no one say that it is not good or unreliable. With that in mind, is it not the same as Rolex and Seiko?

'Rolex makes lots of bling bling, but these are bling bling with very very reliable in-house movements. Likewise, Seiko also has lots of Bling bling in its credor line & dolce line, but that again is complemented by super movements.'

'Panerai has always been sourcing movements from outsiders so that they could concentrate on the presentation.'

Panerai has always sourced movement from outside, what ever the reason, they are the only ones that knows. But the movement they source have always been reliable and robust. With this problem solved, this allows panerai to then focus on the presentation. Is this not he same as the above, as what Seiko and Rolex does with the bling?

'Or have you probed the inverse, that they have been sourcing for movements from outside because all they want is to concentrate on the presentation'

Conjecture?

Even if this is true, how does this make Panerai a fashion brand? Would it not be much like Rolex or Seiko, putting a good reliable engine, solving the performance issue, to focus on the presentation?

Patina, strap, sandwich dial..... Evolving to meet market demands and smart business.....
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 08:08:25 AM by TheHobbit »

Offline Enkidu

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2012, 08:21:41 AM »
Endiku..no offense but...

`company is more concerned about cosmetics than the actual performance of the watches themselves'
`I say OP is a fashion house because it's more concerned with the cosmetics than the performance of the watch'

I think these statements (that OP is a company that is very concerned about cosmetics....) is not very different from claiming that they are evolving to meet market demand. IF OP is truly interested in cosmetics (appearance, style, exterior) ..then its logical to assume that they will have to change to meet what consumers want...

or do we need quote from Charles Darwin to understand  the true meaning of evolving?

No offence taken but I am not sure why Mr. Darwin has to be dragged into this discussion. I never mentioned anything about "evolving", so I believe it's only logical you direct your question to GMAC (and now Hobitt) who did.

Offline Enkidu

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2012, 08:38:45 AM »
Panerai has always sourced movement from outside, what ever the reason, they are the only ones that knows. But the movement they source have always been reliable and robust. With this problem solved, this allows panerai to then focus on the presentation.

Hobbitt, I think we are moving in circles and degenerating into a stalemate at best. So, it is agreed PAM (from your own statement quoted above) that PAM leaves and solves the watch movement issue to outsiders and just focus on presentation. Much like what Guess, DKNY, Dior ....etc do I am sure. Still not a fashion house?

I am surprised not many other defenders of the house of PAM take on my argument and Hobbitt was left almost single-handedly to deal with my often frustrating jibes. To me, these very illuminating discussions (even if I am wrong, dead wrong even) show that OP exist only one the fringe of the watchmaking world. I am not as bold as Hanz speculating if the brand would possibily implode, but I only fear that other brands go the same way as these mob. Maybe I am a traditionalist.

I think we should set an alarm clock in this forum and revisit this issue in say 5 years' time. Who know? The PAM fashion could have waned so much by that time that the PAM372 would be going around for the price of a Steinhart / Stowa.

     
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 08:47:19 AM by Enkidu »

Offline bwee

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2012, 08:46:34 AM »
for all intent and purposes, I take a rather simplistic view....companies that makes only watches (whether in-house movement or otherwise) are watch makers... whilst companies which has watches in their product line up (clothes, handbags, accessories, shoes etc) are merely fashion houses.

Offline Godzillaz

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2012, 09:05:34 AM »
There's only one way to learn about the panerai watches. Get one yourself and you'll know.  ;)

It's easy to focus on the hype than do the actual reading and learning itself. It's even easier if there's some meat head around to poke fun of.

Are we talking about watches or people who buy watches?

Regards
Tyler

Offline Enkidu

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2012, 09:14:16 AM »
There's only one way to learn about the panerai watches. Get one yourself and you'll know.  ;)


With all due respect, this is plain unsound advice. Maybe that's how the PAM fashion virus spread. But once you have invested money (lots of money in this case) can we still comment on the watch objectively. Surely many people would not render honest but negative comment on his own watch which he hopes to sell.

Offline swleong

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2012, 09:19:14 AM »
for all intent and purposes, I take a rather simplistic view....companies that makes only watches (whether in-house movement or otherwise) are watch makers... whilst companies which has watches in their product line up (clothes, handbags, accessories, shoes etc) are merely fashion houses.

can't agree fully, it is call business diversify.

Tag Heuer makes glasses, jackets, bags and accesories, but you can't really call them a fashion houses looking at thier history.

Seiko also produce glasses if you are not aware of...

Offline TheHobbit

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2012, 09:41:08 AM »
Panerai has always sourced movement from outside, what ever the reason, they are the only ones that knows. But the movement they source have always been reliable and robust. With this problem solved, this allows panerai to then focus on the presentation.

Hobbitt, I think we are moving in circles and degenerating into a stalemate at best. So, it is agreed PAM (from your own statement quoted above) that PAM leaves and solves the watch movement issue to outsiders and just focus on presentation. Much like what Guess, DKNY, Dior ....etc do I am sure. Still not a fashion house?

     

Nope, presentation is only part and parcel of the whole thing. Have Rolex made any improvement to its movements? Have Seiko? Have any other brands that make their own movements? If not, then all falls into this category, regardless if they leave it to outsider or in house (which by the way panerai have). So, with the problem of movement solved, all focus on presentation right? Milgauss with green crystal? Floating hands of the new explorer ii? Green Rolex dial? Green Rolex bezel of the 50th anniversary sub? Maxi dial? Are these not presentation issues? Or it is not because they have good movement?

Yes we are going in circle because of the movement. In house or outside source, once solved, all focus on Presentation, be it panerai, Rolex, Seiko, breitling, iwc, chronoswiss, citizen.....

We need to define fashion brand. Based on your definition, as long as the brand focuses on cosmetics and not the movement or performance of the watch, they are a fashion brand. That to me describes all brands. As long as the watch does not contain a new movement or improved movement, then it is all cosmetic. New sub vs old sub, any improvement in performance? Any improvement in movement? Changes cosmetics right? To meet the demands of the customers right? Old explorer and new? Any improvement in performance? Lots of complain about the short hands.... Cosmetics?

Offline Godzillaz

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #45 on: September 11, 2012, 09:44:49 AM »
With all due respect, this is plain unsound advice. Maybe that's how the PAM fashion virus spread.

Are you afraid you might get catch it as well?  ::)

OK, ok back to being serious. A buying a watch is a rather personal, emotional and spiritual process. Quite a complicated subject to dissect. While most cases can be conclude in a short time. Others might take a little more time. The spirit of the watch can't be obeserve by sitting on the fences overlooking in a broad view.

In panerai's case, this is evident. Sure we often see wannabes, showoff and loud talker wearing big ol ugly pam. However to say that's all to it the panerai would be the same as saying rolex makes overprice waterproof watch or glashutte is just a cheaper, lower grade version of lange. How true is that statement?

Mind you there are lot of us who can quote the complete finishes of a watch movement and the history and logic behind design and execution of the watch. We don't start out buying Rolex and Panerai. In fact these are the last 2 brand that enter our collection.

The questions you be might be more interested in are

"Why Panerai?" 
"What's there to be gain after VC, PP, Lange and the independent?"
"Won't your money be better of with a JLC tourbillon than a tritium index panerai watch with unitas movement?"

Quote
... But once you have invested money (lots of money in this case) can we still comment on the watch objectively. Surely many people would not render honest but negative comment on his own watch which he hopes to sell.

Is that how you perceive people? You can't be serious  :o What happen about ethic and honesty. Am I in the wrong place?

Regards
Tyler

Offline bwee

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #46 on: September 11, 2012, 09:52:13 AM »
for all intent and purposes, I take a rather simplistic view....companies that makes only watches (whether in-house movement or otherwise) are watch makers... whilst companies which has watches in their product line up (clothes, handbags, accessories, shoes etc) are merely fashion houses.

can't agree fully, it is call business diversify.

Tag Heuer makes glasses, jackets, bags and accesories, but you can't really call them a fashion houses looking at thier history.

Seiko also produce glasses if you are not aware of...

that's why its just a simplistic view.. what you mentioned are exceptions.

Offline Enkidu

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #47 on: September 11, 2012, 09:53:18 AM »
Have Rolex made any improvement to its movements? Have Seiko?

Sorry Hobitt, I find these statements rather unsuited coming from an expert like you. It's one thing to have a stand that OP is not a fashion house, but quite ungainly to ignore the improvements made by Rolex and Seiko. Enough said.

Offline Enkidu

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #48 on: September 11, 2012, 09:55:31 AM »


Is that how you perceive people? You can't be serious  :o What happen about ethic and honesty. Am I in the wrong place?

Regards
Tyler
[/quote]

How I perceive people subjectively has no bearing to this discussion surely.

Offline SeaDwellerR

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Re: Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??
« Reply #49 on: September 11, 2012, 09:57:19 AM »
Dear members,

It has always been my opinion that Officine Panerai is not a watchmaking company but a just fashion house like DKNY, Dior, ...etc.

Panerai watches are all more about looks + aesthetics. Panerai lovers' obsession with the leather straps and the multitude of companies making straps for these watches partly support this view. When the watches do not come with see-through casebacks, I have seen photos of the movement underneath being not just undecorated, but downright raw and rough. This is evidence that the company is more concerned about cosmetics than the actual performance of the watches themselves (considering the movement is the heart of a watch).  Companies like Stowa and Steinhart (or even Sea-Gull) have more self-respect than these Italians.

Considering their sizes, they look awkward as dress watches. Whilst some models have rotating bezel for diving, the majority don't - hence although these watches are claimed to be rated to 300m, they are practically useless as diving watches. In fact, it is not entirely clear which genre these watches belong to, except that they function as strong fashion statements for young people who want to appear bold and confident.

Their sale strategy (with countless special editions) shows they are not in the business of making good watches, but are here to play with human emotions and lust for exclusivity.

Let the discussion begin!!!

   

Let's answer with quotes of your opinion:-

"It has always been my opinion that Officine Panerai is not a watchmaking company but a just fashion house like DKNY, Dior, ...etc."
This is too harsh bro.  With the greatest of respect, I have to disagree.  Anyway, its just your personal opinion.  I or we cannot change how you want to opine.  :thumbsup:

"This is evidence that the company is more concerned about cosmetics than the actual performance of the watches themselves (considering the movement is the heart of a watch).  Companies like Stowa and Steinhart (or even Sea-Gull) have more self-respect than these Italians."
Disagree.  Panerai is all about Robustness and legibility of the dial under the water.  History goes back to when they make watches for Italian Navy.  And when you say this you have indirectly admitted that Panerai is cosmetically superior.  Actual performance wise, they are building their own in-house movement.  

"Considering their sizes, they look awkward as dress watches."
Panerai has various sizes and models, which size and model are you referring to?  Luminor lines (which has the crown guard) are meant to be robust and not supposed to be dressy.  Submersible are meant to be diving watch NOT dress watch!  Radiomir lines are more elegant and dressy.  So, i have to disagree with you. 


"Their sale strategy (with countless special editions) shows they are not in the business of making good watches, but are here to play with human emotions and lust for exclusivity."
While I agree with you that they have countless special editions.  This is just a good marketing strategy.  These countless special editions do not mean that "they are not in the business of making good watches".   Does IWC not make countless limited edition of Pilot watches?  Does Audemars Piguet not make countless limited edition of ROO watches as well? Even JLC makes countless NAVY SEALS Limited edition watches!  And these are good watches bro! They are all good watches!!

Just my 2 cents! :thumbsup:

« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 10:10:33 AM by SeaDwellerR »