Author Topic: Just a thought......  (Read 12338 times)

Offline @tsw@

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Just a thought......
« on: January 09, 2013, 11:50:01 PM »
Hi dear members,

The following idea came to mind with regards to funding for the next watch after witnessing all the great pieces shown on the GTG thread, and this feeling or urge to get the next target grows stronger and stronger.

Assuming the following:-

1) you have a flexi housing loan, whereby withdrawal can be done if there is an excess in balance.
2) you have been under employment before and there is a substantial amount in your epf account 2.
3) you have no confidence in the management of your money by the government, observed from the various non secured loans made out by epf to several entities.

Wink. Wink.

Is it time for a withdrawal to 'invest' in our hobby.
Would you do it provided that this money is not needed critically for other important matters, e.g. Child's education, retirement savings and such.

Offline hanz079

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2013, 06:06:38 AM »
Well, in my opinion...

1. I wouldn't touch my excess balance in my housing loan for any watch. Flexi loan or whatever loan. House is the most important asset one can have. I can live without a watch but not without a house.

2 and 3. EPF money will only be withdrawn if the need arises to buy a property or for major hospital bills. Other than that, I don't think I would touch it either irregardless wether the management of our money by the government. Unless if I am already 55 years old. Then yes, I will withdraw all... but below 40? There is no option.

So in other words, no... I wouldn't do it.
Hobby is a hobby and can only be indulged in using really really REALLY disposable income.
Terrenceterrence "seriously, i think buying a watch for it's secondhand value is like getting married and thinking about divorce at the back of your mind."


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Offline RaymondT

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2013, 07:01:13 AM »
+1 for Hanz :thumbsup:

For me , if i really really like a watch i will save up the cash & only buy it when i can really afford it. There are always options like pay in installment by CC & enjoy now & pay later ,however i always have this thought if i got robbed one day , then what left is only your debt & no watch.

Offline Enkidu

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2013, 07:51:35 AM »
Hi dear members,

The following idea came to mind with regards to funding for the next watch after witnessing all the great pieces shown on the GTG thread, and this feeling or urge to get the next target grows stronger and stronger.

Assuming the following:-

1) you have a flexi housing loan, whereby withdrawal can be done if there is an excess in balance.
2) you have been under employment before and there is a substantial amount in your epf account 2.
3) you have no confidence in the management of your money by the government, observed from the various non secured loans made out by epf to several entities.

Wink. Wink.

Is it time for a withdrawal to 'invest' in our hobby.
Would you do it provided that this money is not needed critically for other important matters, e.g. Child's education, retirement savings and such.


I think Hanz is right.

Let me start by saying how one manages his finances and credit facilities is entirely his own business. But since you ask, I think one is courting financial disaster doing what you proposed above. If there is any mismanagement of EPF funds by KWSP, withdrawing your A/c 2 savings to purchase watches is probably far worse. Digging into your housing loan mortgage facilities will just prolong the repayment period. Remember, the number of years in which all of us are at our maximum productivity is not that long, so the sooner we discharge our mortgages, the better it is for us and our family.

I know there has been lots of talk (and if you check, they are mostly just talk  ::)) in the recent days in maybe 3 threads about acquiring really high end timepieces like PP and these talks seem to have affected the sanity of some members.

PP are fabulous watches for the fabulously rich. If one has to cull his entire present collection and bust / squeeze from his other lifelong saving accounts + pension fund just for that transient pleasure of walking into a PP boutique, attended by the SA like an aristrocrat and purchasing a PP, then I say you are just not in the PP league as yet.

Again, how you deal with your money is entirely your own business. ;D

I know some members will come after me with a flame thrower for saying this, but that's better than knowing later that some people go bust after being influenced by these talks.



Offline @tsw@

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2013, 08:03:28 AM »
Good to get level minded opinions.

However the idea of using disposable income is so subjective. E.g. some people feels that disposable income should be invested back into properties or shares and not wasted on hobbies.

Is this hobby too extravagant even if you have the means?

Offline hanz079

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2013, 08:07:05 AM »
Play within your means...
Not jump on any bandwagon...

If I have 150k in spare cash... a watch will be waaaaaayyy down the list of priorities.
The 1st is most probably lessen the mortgage balance... The earlier the house is all mine, the safer I feel.
Being in Sabah, chinese are not like the natives where they have land complete with houses inherited from their ancestors... when the shit hits the fan, at least they still have a place to stay.
Once we could not afford to pay for the house, I will have to sleep on the streets.
We have nothing to fall back on.
With that said, if the day comes that I were to go broke... I can liquidate everything... but not my house.
I can always take the bus, not wear any watch... But I will always need a place to stay.

There is no such thing as investing in watches.
Terrenceterrence "seriously, i think buying a watch for it's secondhand value is like getting married and thinking about divorce at the back of your mind."


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Offline hanz079

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2013, 08:13:24 AM »
If one choose to re-invest disposable income, more power to them.
But at least some of the disposable income needs to be enjoyed right?
It just so happens that this watch hobby is not cheap...
Terrenceterrence "seriously, i think buying a watch for it's secondhand value is like getting married and thinking about divorce at the back of your mind."


watchionable.blogspot.com

Offline amir1218

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2013, 08:27:06 AM »
I agree with Han,
There is no such thing as investing in watches.
Buying watches are not investments, it depreciates in value unless its made out of a precious metal that actually holds value like gold.
And the whole watch, bracelet and case would have to be made out of gold.. makes valuation easier.

About EPF withdrawals,
There are restrictions to withdrawing your EPF account 2 before you are 55. You can only withdraw to pay for your housing loan, invest in unit trust or pay for your tertiary education. Some people have been charged for false withdrawals before.

Just my thoughts..

Offline JOS2012

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2013, 08:28:55 AM »
Thank God the answers are down to earth and not answers affected by the online frenzy of watch acquisitions esp. of PP and higher up...

I totally agree with hanz,raymond,enkidu...
Its a HOBBY not a need....watches should always be bought only when you have spare cash AFTER taking into account your basic needs of shelter, loan committments and a comfortable cash safety net for emergencies (something like 1.5-2 years of your monthly income in case you lose your job, in the case of income earners not entrepreneurs) Whatever you think of EPF's use of our money, its not to be used for hobbies...even though we are passionate WIS...

Buying watches as future cash back is suicide..as most watches are not liquid enough and you can expect to depreciate between 30-60% of their original cost..in some cases where the brand is not mainstream/popular, even higher)

The only thing that I might differ in opinion is that if someone really wanted a super hi-end watch bad enough and IF he is the type who can live with just 1 superb do -it-all watch day in day out, then it might make sense to cull ALL his watches for just that 1 super holy grail..... but I'm not the type...

I do know however of many people who own and wear just 1 watch for the last 10-15 years (and some of these watches are not costing even 4 figures)...but then these are not WIS....make no mistake these are people earning middle/upper 5 figure monthly salaries...
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 08:59:59 AM by JOS2012 »
Personal taste and preferences evolve over years, hopefully not 1 full circle otherwise it means we haven't learnt a single thing.

Offline Enkidu

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2013, 08:31:41 AM »
Is this hobby too extravagant even if you have the means?

I you make a million RM a year and all that you buy is 5 citizen eco-drives then it is surely not extravagant. But if you make a million RM a year and you buy 5 PP or VC with high complications then it is indeed extravagant. THis is just a hobby, we should not be breaking our limbs and risking our families' future for it.

Offline dpkong

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2013, 08:53:27 AM »

Much advice has been given by members and all I can add is that it's no one's business to tell you how to spend your money.

BUT, I would not advise dipping into EPF or a excess mortgage funds to indulge in a watch no matter how badly you think the EPF is managed.

Offline @tsw@

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2013, 08:58:48 AM »
Ok, lets assume mr A has paid off his housing loan and car  There is enough emergency savings for 5 years. Recently gained a substantial amount from investment, would using 20% of the nett profit from investment to purchase a watch be extravagant when he could have actually used it to purchase a better car for his spouse or  contribute back to society in terms of donations to charity.

Any thoughts?

Offline dpkong

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2013, 09:01:39 AM »
Ok, lets assume mr A has paid off his housing loan and car  There is enough emergency savings for 5 years. Recently gained a substantial amount from investment, would using 20% of the nett profit from investment to purchase a watch be extravagant when he could have actually used it to purchase a better car for his spouse or  contribute back to society in terms of donations to charity.

Any thoughts?

Between a car and a watch, I will pick the watch. The rest I have no comments.

Offline Enkidu

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2013, 09:03:43 AM »
Ok, lets assume mr A has paid off his housing loan and car  There is enough emergency savings for 5 years. Recently gained a substantial amount from investment, would using 20% of the nett profit from investment to purchase a watch be extravagant when he could have actually used it to purchase a better car for his spouse or  contribute back to society in terms of donations to charity.

Any thoughts?

If Mr. A wants the PP so badly that he has to concoct so many hypothetical scenarios to justify the purchase, then he should just go ahead at his own risk and don't say he has not been warned by his peers. ;D


Offline JPSP

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2013, 09:06:19 AM »
Ok, lets assume mr A has paid off his housing loan and car  There is enough emergency savings for 5 years. Recently gained a substantial amount from investment, would using 20% of the nett profit from investment to purchase a watch be extravagant when he could have actually used it to purchase a better car for his spouse or  contribute back to society in terms of donations to charity.

Any thoughts?

I think that's fine since you're debt-free. a little extravagance is fine and 20% is a reasonable % 

Offline takashi78

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2013, 09:22:41 AM »
I agree with Enkidu, if you are finding so many "reasons" to buy the watch then what the hell BUY IT !


Offline @tsw@

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2013, 09:30:55 AM »
Advice taken and  thank you once again to all senior members for the constructive advice.
Will be on the look out for iwc portuguese chrono or pre-owed 7-days auto. Both are nice dress watches. ;D


Offline dpkong

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2013, 04:46:13 PM »
Advice taken and  thank you once again to all senior members for the constructive advice.
Will be on the look out for iwc portuguese chrono or pre-owed 7-days auto. Both are nice dress watches. ;D

For awhile there, I thought you were going after a Patek...  :HammerHead:

Keep the funds in a fixed deposit until you find the watch you want. The longer it takes to find one, the more satisfaction you will have when you finally get it.

Offline JOS2012

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2013, 05:51:09 PM »
Me too…. :o



For awhile there, I thought you were going after a Patek...  :HammerHead:

Keep the funds in a fixed deposit until you find the watch you want. The longer it takes to find one, the more satisfaction you will have when you finally get it.
[/quote]
Personal taste and preferences evolve over years, hopefully not 1 full circle otherwise it means we haven't learnt a single thing.

Offline @tsw@

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2013, 06:45:57 PM »
Wouldn't dare to dream of a patek. My wifey will cut my B*lls off. Just want to have a nice dress watch for the occasional use.

In fact just finish meeting up with a friend wanting to let go of this

 

seriously considering epf withdrawal. Wifey controls all finance, I get a monthly allowance and impossible to save for watch.

I know she got lots stashed up for rainy days and retirement with which I agree shouldn't be used. However the beautiful dial and tumbling sound that the 7750 movement makes is driving me nuts...

Offline takashi78

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2013, 07:36:46 PM »
Damn...this is the first time i hear someone taking epf money out to buy a watch....

Offline tonykpk

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2013, 07:47:30 PM »
Just go get it if you can't resist , you only live once . regards tony.

Offline rusminag

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2013, 07:58:57 PM »
Are you asking us if we like your choice of watch?
Don't Waste Time, Go for Rolex

Offline dpkong

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2013, 08:16:44 PM »

Damn...this is the first time i hear someone taking epf money out to buy a watch....


Is there a check box to tick for watch??   ::)

Hmmm... maybe I could convince them that a Patek is for my next generation also and tick the "Housing Loan" category...  ;D



Wouldn't dare to dream of a patek. My wifey will cut my B*lls off. Just want to have a nice dress watch for the occasional use.


If it's a 7750 you're looking for, I think there are many options your wife should allow you to buy without losing your b*lls or attempting a stick-up at EPF...

Or since it is your friend's watch, try to ask for monthly installment payment over 9 years like car loans nowadays  :P

Offline @tsw@

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Re: Just a thought......
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2013, 08:32:40 PM »
Not asking, just sharing. Watch already decided either the chrono or auto. But need to see it  in real life, the auto.

needed some place to let off stream. Cannot talk to wife on this topic., my baby girl too young to understand.

Best is to talk to strangers. No percussions.

Why watches, cause I'm an engineer by training and can understand the amount of work and mad ass skill required to produce these beautiful things.

Similarly in work, we try to produce the best quality work for clients and aim to be the 'patek philippe'  of our industry.