Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house??

[tonykpk]

 Please stay focus people , don't over kill or too personal. regards tony..

[landyshah]

This thread was not a Panerai worship thread, if it was, then sure I would respect the OP and the sentiment of the participants.

Rather, this thread was one to discuss and express opinions on the brand.

I expressed mine and the reason why I wouldnt buy one. I'm sure those who are fans these watches have equally strong opinions.

Thus we agree to differ on the watch brand alone

I do not see the need to be personal and judge people on what they drive or where they live. Especially when you have no idea about them.

Anyway the OP has stated that there is no point in advancing the issue, so peace and enjoy your watches.

[gloomis]

Please stay focus people , don't over kill or too personal. regards tony..

I do agreed with you on the focus but also be remind that also please care about others feeling. some comments you can keep it to your own and repeating it during your own shower time or whatever. dont simply comment where it will hurt others feeling.

we are all adult enough to differentiate what should talk and what shoud not talk.

[wslee]

Each person has their own preference.well pointed out discussion.i guess for this thread there won't be any conclusion.

OP whether a fashion watch or not.thats for oneself to decide.

All I can say if you like the watch,who care is fashion watch or not.is always for our syok sendiri factor.so don't bother much about what others say.*reality is a lot of us buy is to show off our status*

To all watch lovers,cheers!!!!!

[hanz079]

Ah...this subject has been debated ad nauseum in other forums.

Since I long time didnt post, since this is free and open forum, and its a free world discussion on a brand, may I add my opinion?

PAM is overrrated fashion junk and I wouldnt be caught dead wearing one 

Of course its every individuals money to spend as they wish and wear what they like. If PAM fans like what they wear and are happy, I'm happy for them too

Overrated fashion junk ? Wow that's harsh ... Some of our collections here are even worth more than your house or ride young man . Keep those harsh comments back at your own yard.. 


Peace
Overrated Fashion junkie...

Does your opinion need to be held in a higher manner just because your collection is worth more than a house or a car 

[sattha61]

If you strip down a Panerai against say a Parnis mechanical watch is there actually much of a difference between them? Both have a watch movement, a metal housing, dial and hands. That is basically it. Both watches tell time, which is basically why we wear a watch on our wrist in the first place. But if both tell time why not pay just a few hundred ringgit for a Parnis instead of forking out 20K+ for a Panerai? That's where the human ego comes to play. What started as a need became a want because we have the money to fuel it. Eventually, because we can afford it we buy more and more expensive watches not so much to tell time but basically to show off.

Admit it. There are millions of diver watches out there but how many actually use it to dive. You may argue you need a good water resistant watch to wear when swimming. Fair enough. There are plenty of good less well known watches with 300M To 600M rating out there to wear to go swimming without having to fork so much money out for a Rolex. We buy expensive branded watches to show off because we can afford it. It becomes a fashion statement.

So, if you ask me if Officine Panerai is a just a fashion house? Honestly, I do not know. Do not understand high fashion to comment on it. But I will say that wearing a Panerai watch is a fashion statement. It is just a watch movement with dial and hands housed in a very heavily overpriced block of steel.

A tool is a tool, but when you start paying gadzillion amount of money for a tool that is probably a little better than a very much cheaper tool doing the same thing, you are trying to make a statement. That statement is I can afford it and I want to show off.

[TheHobbit]

This thread was not a Panerai worship thread, if it was, then sure I would respect the OP and the sentiment of the participants.

Rather, this thread was one to discuss and express opinions on the brand.

I expressed mine and the reason why I wouldnt buy one. I'm sure those who are fans these watches have equally strong opinions.

Thus we agree to differ on the watch brand alone

I do not see the need to be personal and judge people on what they drive or where they live. Especially when you have no idea about them.

Anyway the OP has stated that there is no point in advancing the issue, so peace and enjoy your watches.

Landyshah,

Care elaborate why you consider Panerai overrated fashion junk?

[TheHobbit]

If you strip down a Panerai against say a Parnis mechanical watch is there actually much of a difference between them? Both have a watch movement, a metal housing, dial and hands. That is basically it. Both watches tell time, which is basically why we wear a watch on our wrist in the first place. But if both tell time why not pay just a few hundred ringgit for a Parnis instead of forking out 20K+ for a Panerai? That's where the human ego comes to play. What started as a need became a want because we have the money to fuel it. Eventually, because we can afford it we buy more and more expensive watches not so much to tell time but basically to show off.

Admit it. There are millions of diver watches out there but how many actually use it to dive. You may argue you need a good water resistant watch to wear when swimming. Fair enough. There are plenty of good less well known watches with 300M To 600M rating out there to wear to go swimming without having to fork so much money out for a Rolex. We buy expensive branded watches to show off because we can afford it. It becomes a fashion statement.

So, if you ask me if Officine Panerai is a just a fashion house? Honestly, I do not know. Do not understand high fashion to comment on it. But I will say that wearing a Panerai watch is a fashion statement. It is just a watch movement with dial and hands housed in a very heavily overpriced block of steel.

A tool is a tool, but when you start paying gadzillion amount of money for a tool that is probably a little better than a very much cheaper tool doing the same thing, you are trying to make a statement. That statement is I can afford it and I want to show off.

Does this not apply to all watches? You can tell time with your phone, in our car, in the office on our computer. We all here, I am sure all agree that watches to a certain extent are luxuries. To some of us, any watch above rm1,000 is a luxury. To some people more, to some people less.

[Godzillaz]

I agree to a certain extend. Well maybe about 80% of it. 

You're correct. Lotsa of ppl buy panerai because they wanna show off which is the main reason I stay away from the brand a few years ago. However there are others who buy the watches not because the wanna show off. I actually appreciate the history part of the brand.

Is like antique furniture.

Way overprice for something to put your ass on but there are ppl out there who appreciate the craftmanship and the ageing of the woods. Of course the owner can show off he got a high price piece of dead tree that only serve the function to be sit on. I think that too but I understand the charm where time have come into play. I often quote this to vintage watch newbie "Time is a great artist if you allow it to be"

I suspect most antique furniture collector don't show off their collection to non enthusiast. Why? Cos is damn weird! (few guys circling around a coach like they are termites exterminator is creepy )

That don't mean I go out and announce to the world that these ppl are freaks and what they do is stupid. Which is what I feel on this thread.

My initial thought on this thread is for us to learn but it sort of become a center for crucifixion. Why we see this type of behavior on a watch forum is beyond me.

Yes everyone is entitle to their own opinion ... ... but that is as long as expressing of your own opinion does not cause emotional stress or interfere with others personal right or freedom. Some of us are lawyers and we know well what that statement means.

We all come here to learn and share, not be ridicule or single out.

I sincerely hope you manage to see my view. Not to agree but just a simple understanding is more than I can ask.

Regards
Tyler

If you strip down a Panerai against say a Parnis mechanical watch is there actually much of a difference between them? Both have a watch movement, a metal housing, dial and hands. That is basically it. Both watches tell time, which is basically why we wear a watch on our wrist in the first place. But if both tell time why not pay just a few hundred ringgit for a Parnis instead of forking out 20K+ for a Panerai? That's where the human ego comes to play. What started as a need became a want because we have the money to fuel it. Eventually, because we can afford it we buy more and more expensive watches not so much to tell time but basically to show off.

Admit it. There are millions of diver watches out there but how many actually use it to dive. You may argue you need a good water resistant watch to wear when swimming. Fair enough. There are plenty of good less well known watches with 300M To 600M rating out there to wear to go swimming without having to fork so much money out for a Rolex. We buy expensive branded watches to show off because we can afford it. It becomes a fashion statement.

So, if you ask me if Officine Panerai is a just a fashion house? Honestly, I do not know. Do not understand high fashion to comment on it. But I will say that wearing a Panerai watch is a fashion statement. It is just a watch movement with dial and hands housed in a very heavily overpriced block of steel.

A tool is a tool, but when you start paying gadzillion amount of money for a tool that is probably a little better than a very much cheaper tool doing the same thing, you are trying to make a statement. That statement is I can afford it and I want to show off.

[Enkidu]

Overrated fashion junk ? Wow that's harsh ... Some of our collections here are even worth more than your house or ride young man . Keep those harsh comments back at your own yard.. 

Peace
Overrated Fashion junkie...

Unless you know landyshah personally, it is rather dangerous to have this sort of response. For all we know, landyshah could be a "man in yellow" (I guess you should understand what I mean and no, I am not referring to the DIGI man).

[Enkidu]

That don't mean I go out and announce to the world that these ppl are freaks and what they do is stupid. Which is what I feel on this thread.

Godzilla, has anyone here called another a freak and what they do is stupid?

[Vintimes]

I am not into Panerai as yet, it is kind of big for a small wrist like mine, or I will say it is big for most Asian in general.
But it is definitely look cool for those with big wrist. I have to say Panerai has gotten lot of attention in last 5 years, and also pushing the value up. Like most companies they started with ETA movement, which is easier to buy without much investment, but since they have done so well, naturally they have ventured into in House Movement now, just like how Tag Heuer started long ago. I will love to own one eventually, but always wondering how that big watch look on my hand.. kind of funny, and started to feel Rolex is kind of small for the first time.

Is Panerai a fashion house? I don't think so, they are into Military watch for Italy Navy long ago, and it is definitely a respected name in watch industry, not like other real fashion oriented brand like Cartier or Chorpard.

I am sure a lot of Paneraian will agree with me.. even I am not a Panerai fan... maybe one day... )

[JOS2012]

a respected name in watch industry, not like other real fashion oriented brand like Cartier or Chorpard.

I am sure a lot of Paneraian will agree with me.. even I am not a Panerai fan... maybe one day... )

Been reading this entertaining thread which has provided me a window into the various interesting perspectives on OP and to a certain extent the personalities making the various comments..

Not that I am a fence sitter, but I've always practiced the credo that I do not comment on items that do not interest me and even more so, have no knowledge of....

However with this last comment, I'm really curious on whether risti's will agree with the above 'opinion' or not.. interesting...although I hope its Chopard the writer meant and not as per written...

[zameenzahari]

Chill man, its my view, nothing more. You have yours and I respect it 

I seriously doubt if any constructive comments can arise out of a topic like this anyway. Its all theoretical and personal opinions. The OP stated his view, I agree with him. Others may not.

No I dont have expensive watches of that calibre - does one need be loaded to share his opinion on this forum?

1) Of course you dont need to be loaded to express your views but this is a public forum which talks about watches. I dont think words like 'trash' denotes a common horological description that all of us can understand ?

2) OP used the term fashion watches not 'trash'

3) Taking it outside the world of horology, usually when you call something 'trash', usually you have something much better to benchmark it against, hence the  question if you own pieces like the the AP Royal Oak Grande Complication or the Maître du Temps Chapter One. Just curiosity on my part.

4) We are all expressing our views and opinion and I can respect that but this is a public forum and I believe certain standards of decorum and respect should be exercised when expressing one's view. I can understand if the arguement is framed from the perspective of assessing the movement finish, quality of the case, design etc but to just call a brand that some people invested a lot of time and money trash and 'would not be caught dead wearing it' seems a bit harsh.

I really hate to give motherhood statements that might be taken in the wrong light but the forum could be a much better place if we could all pause and give the choice of words some thoughts before hammering the keyboard away.

As a minimum, at least let us know the basis that have led you to conclude the brand that I've been collecting for most of my adult year is trash. hey, I might even agree and sell em all to get the brands that you consider non trash.

please dont view this as a personal attack. If you think it is, then I am apologizing in advance.

[sattha61]

Is like antique furniture.

I do not think comparing a Panerai with antique furniture is a fair and true comparison.

What is a piece of antique furniture?
An antique furniture has many tangible things to it. It was probably made from a species of wood that is now quite rare and difficult to find. The craftsmanship is probably exquisite and if made by a master craftsman even better. It has aged very well for an old piece of wooden furniture. Plus it is rare and probably difficult to find a similar piece.

What is Panerai? It is a company that used to make watches for the Italian military. Fair enough. These days it is making a fortune promoting to the masses that it is hip and vogue to wear a Panerai. The history is in the company not the watch. It is nothing like antique furniture. If you have the money, you can buy multiple copies of the same watch in an instant, assuming off course the AD stocked that many. Not too long ago, it actually housed an independently sourced ETA movement. Only difference between it and another much cheaper watch housing the same movement is that oversized block of steel and the brand name Panerai. And not to mention the over the top price.

[TheHobbit]

a respected name in watch industry, not like other real fashion oriented brand like Cartier or Chorpard.

I am sure a lot of Paneraian will agree with me.. even I am not a Panerai fan... maybe one day... )

Been reading this entertaining thread which has provided me a window into the various interesting perspectives on OP and to a certain extent the personalities making the various comments..

Not that I am a fence sitter, but I've always practiced the credo that I do not comment on items that do not interest me and even more so, have no knowledge of....

However with this last comment, I'm really curious on whether risti's will agree with the above 'opinion' or not.. interesting...although I hope its Chopard the writer meant and not as per written...

Don't know much about Chopard, but with Cartier, the Santos does come to mind.....

[zameenzahari]

Is like antique furniture.

INot too long ago, it actually houses an independently sourced ETA movement. Only difference between it and another much cheaper watch housing the same movement is that oversized block of steel and the brand name Panerai. And not to mention the over the top price.

Sorry but there are significant differences between blank ETA ebauches and movement finished and completed by watchmakers like Panerai, IWC etc. In fact there are so many swiss brands that utilizes ETA/Valjoux/third party ebauches that its actually easier to list those that dont : off the top of my head- JLC, Volker Vyskocyl, Dornblüth & Son, Roger Dubuis have been completely independent

Others would have utilized 3rd party movements at some point in their history. So, why just single out Panerai?

[am_sober]

Good day people~

just want to lets some of u guys know..

it seems some of u guys got it wrong..
OP = Officine Panerai
TS = Thread Starter

bcoz i think some of u guys got it confused..
The TS is created the thread "Officine Panerai - Just a fashion house?"
u cant refer OP as the TS..

thats all.. tq~
sorry if i got it wrong.
tc cheers~ ^^
 

[landyshah]

Care elaborate why you consider Panerai overrated fashion junk?

Hobbit Sir -

Appreciate the measured response, far more engaging than purile emotions from fanboys.

A few times I have attempted to buy a PAM (new and secondhand), but always walked away with some other watch. 

I have tried to rationalise it in a few ways, am not going to go into a long and deep discourse, as this brand hardly interests me. Happy to talk about Enicar tho 

As far as movements are concerned, as you and Bro Sattha pointed out - its all the same, its just about the image/status thing. I'm not a movement nut - but I'd say Panerai movements arent exactly cutting edge or ground breaking compared to what others like JLC, IWC, Seiko or Omega for example have done over the years.

So it boils down to aesthetics and history for me.

Aesthetics - is subjective of course, but I see very little imagination in the design of PAM watches - more like recycling of the same thing again and again. This is made worse by the whole "LE" thing. They are also too big for my taste.

Perhaps it is because I like older watches that heritage and history matter. In this category, I would compare PAM with brands that use the same "heritage" or "history" marketing angle (Omega/NASA, IWC/RAF pilots, Rolex/Royal Navy/Comex etc).

Yes PAM has some history, but not as great as the marketing would lead us believe.

While all manufacturers are guilty of this (same thing would apply to the Rolex Explorer and Everest), I think PAM has the least substance.  The "heritage" is just not convincing enough - i mean the 30s and WW2 is a long time ago...what did they since then? They supplied 300 pieces to the Italian Navy, a few for other navies, and pretty much did nothing throughout to 60s - 90s. Look at the timeline in the website as you can see.

I mean, 300 pieces compared to how many Subs, FFs, Mark XIIs, Seiko Chronos, JSARs, G shocks etc that served in the real military?

Until 1995 and Stallone bought one and it became "fashionable".

Since then it has become "in" and Richemont milked the whole Italian Navy thing to the max.

Hence my conclusion it is a fashion watch with a history blown out of proportion, with a price tag inflated to ride on this "history" and further elevated by so called "limited editions". Horoligically nothing cutting edge or special. While the original design was a classic, they have done nothing significant since.

Again, my opinion. No wrongs or rights. For every one of my arguments, there will be a counter - however am not interested enough in PAMs to go on and on.

Each to his own. 

[TheHobbit]

Is like antique furniture.

INot too long ago, it actually houses an independently sourced ETA movement. Only difference between it and another much cheaper watch housing the same movement is that oversized block of steel and the brand name Panerai. And not to mention the over the top price.

Sorry but there are significant differences between blank ETA ebauches and movement finished and completed by watchmakers like Panerai, IWC etc. In fact there are so many swiss brands that utilizes ETA/Valjoux/third party ebauches that its actually easier to list those that dont : off the top of my head- JLC, Volker Vyskocyl, Dornblüth & Son, Roger Dubuis have been completely independent

Others would have utilized 3rd party movements at some point in their history. So, why just single out Panerai?

Over the top eta watch? Google this.....  Christiaan van der Klaauw - Astrolabium, CKAL2245AS

[sattha61]

Care elaborate why you consider Panerai overrated fashion junk?

Hobbit Sir -

Appreciate the measured response, far more engaging than purile emotions from fanboys.

A few times I have attempted to buy a PAM (new and secondhand), but always walked away with some other watch. 

I have tried to rationalise it in a few ways, am not going to go into a long and deep discourse, as this brand hardly interests me. Happy to talk about Enicar tho 

As far as movements are concerned, as you and Bro Sattha pointed out - its all the same, its just about the image/status thing. I'm not a movement nut - but I'd say Panerai movements arent exactly cutting edge or ground breaking compared to what others like JLC, IWC, Seiko or Omega for example have done over the years.

So it boils down to aesthetics and history for me.

Aesthetics - is subjective of course, but I see very little imagination in the design of PAM watches - more like recycling of the same thing again and again. This is made worse by the whole "LE" thing. They are also too big for my taste.

Perhaps it is because I like older watches that heritage and history matter. In this category, I would compare PAM with brands that use the same "heritage" or "history" marketing angle (Omega/NASA, IWC/RAF pilots, Rolex/Royal Navy/Comex etc).

Yes PAM has some history, but not as great as the marketing would lead us believe.

While all manufacturers are guilty of this (same thing would apply to the Rolex Explorer and Everest), I think PAM has the least substance.  The "heritage" is just not convincing enough - i mean the 30s and WW2 is a long time ago...what did they since then? They supplied 300 pieces to the Italian Navy, a few for other navies, and pretty much did nothing throughout to 60s - 90s. Look at the timeline in the website as you can see.

I mean, 300 pieces compared to how many Subs, FFs, Mark XIIs, Seiko Chronos, JSARs, G shocks etc that served in the real military?

Until 1995 and Stallone bought one and it became "fashionable".

Since then it has become "in" and Richemont milked the whole Italian Navy thing to the max.

Hence my conclusion it is a fashion watch with a history blown out of proportion, with a price tag inflated to ride on this "history" and further elevated by so called "limited editions". Horoligically nothing cutting edge or special. While the original design was a classic, they have done nothing significant since.

Again, my opinion. No wrongs or rights. For every one of my arguments, there will be a counter - however am not interested enough in PAMs to go on and on.

Each to his own. 

Very well written. Could not have said it better. 

[sattha61]

So, why just single out Panerai?

Isn't that obvious? This thread is about Panerai isn't it?

[Enkidu]

1) Of course you dont need to be loaded to express your views but this is a public forum which talks about watches. I dont think words like 'trash' denotes a common horological description that all of us can understand ?

2) OP used the term fashion watches not 'trash'

3) Taking it outside the world of horology, usually when you call something 'trash', usually you have something much better to benchmark it against, hence the  question if you own pieces like the the AP Royal Oak Grande Complication or the Maître du Temps Chapter One. Just curiosity on my part.

4) We are all expressing our views and opinion and I can respect that but this is a public forum and I believe certain standards of decorum and respect should be exercised when expressing one's view. I can understand if the arguement is framed from the perspective of assessing the movement finish, quality of the case, design etc but to just call a brand that some people invested a lot of time and money trash and 'would not be caught dead wearing it' seems a bit harsh.

I really hate to give motherhood statements that might be taken in the wrong light but the forum could be a much better place if we could all pause and give the choice of words some thoughts before hammering the keyboard away.

As a minimum, at least let us know the basis that have led you to conclude the brand that I've been collecting for most of my adult year is trash. hey, I might even agree and sell em all to get the brands that you consider non trash.

please dont view this as a personal attack. If you think it is, then I am apologizing in advance.

Hi, zameen,

No need to apologise, don't suppose anyone here detects any personal attack in your post. Moreover, reading your posts I think you do choose your words quite carefully. I did not fail to notice that you retracted a post concerning some distateful words which I had earlier used (which of course I had voluntarily deleted before that) and I kind of admire your circumspection.

Yes, perhaps "junk" is a rather harsh word. Likewise, Landyshah also in another thread accused contemporary Rolex as bling and the fat hands are ugly......etc. Being a Rolex addict, I could not help but to respond as did some other members. But the tone of the response there and what we find in this thread appear totally different, don't you agree? Perhaps we should all draw a deep breath, sit back and just think. Landyshah's response in both threads though harsh was directed against the brands (PAM and Rolex). He did not call the Rolex wearer an ugly bling bling fellow, nor did he call the PAM lover "junk". Yes, the words were harsh, but when we respond, remember - two wrongs do not make one right.

The focus of this thread is the brand. We discuss the pros and cons of the brand. If we can't do that just because commenting on the brand will hurt the feelings of the supporters of the brand, then what's the purpose of this forum?? Just to post pictures, recommend entry watches below RM 1000, PM each other on discount rates etc?

Very often, we find response like - it's my money, I can buy what I choose, why do you care?? You are right. We don't care. The discussion is about the brands, whether it's about Rolex, PAM or Seikos....etc. It's not about your personal subjective choice and how you spend your money.

- Enkidu

 



 

 

[dpkong]

I truly hope this thread does not degenerate into a personal mud-slinging competition between members.

I shall not need to repost as landyshah here put it quite well and I have highlighted some of the prime issues I share.

Care elaborate why you consider Panerai overrated fashion junk?

Hobbit Sir -

Appreciate the measured response, far more engaging than purile emotions from fanboys.

A few times I have attempted to buy a PAM (new and secondhand), but always walked away with some other watch. 

I have tried to rationalise it in a few ways, am not going to go into a long and deep discourse, as this brand hardly interests me. Happy to talk about Enicar tho 

As far as movements are concerned, as you and Bro Sattha pointed out - its all the same, its just about the image/status thing. I'm not a movement nut - but I'd say Panerai movements arent exactly cutting edge or ground breaking compared to what others like JLC, IWC, Seiko or Omega for example have done over the years.

So it boils down to aesthetics and history for me.

Aesthetics - is subjective of course, but I see very little imagination in the design of PAM watches - more like recycling of the same thing again and again. This is made worse by the whole "LE" thing. They are also too big for my taste.

Perhaps it is because I like older watches that heritage and history matter. In this category, I would compare PAM with brands that use the same "heritage" or "history" marketing angle (Omega/NASA, IWC/RAF pilots, Rolex/Royal Navy/Comex etc).

Yes PAM has some history, but not as great as the marketing would lead us believe.

While all manufacturers are guilty of this (same thing would apply to the Rolex Explorer and Everest), I think PAM has the least substance.  The "heritage" is just not convincing enough - i mean the 30s and WW2 is a long time ago...what did they since then? They supplied 300 pieces to the Italian Navy, a few for other navies, and pretty much did nothing throughout to 60s - 90s. Look at the timeline in the website as you can see.

I mean, 300 pieces compared to how many Subs, FFs, Mark XIIs, Seiko Chronos, JSARs, G shocks etc that served in the real military?

Until 1995 and Stallone bought one and it became "fashionable".

Since then it has become "in" and Richemont milked the whole Italian Navy thing to the max.

Hence my conclusion it is a fashion watch with a history blown out of proportion, with a price tag inflated to ride on this "history" and further elevated by so called "limited editions". Horoligically nothing cutting edge or special. While the original design was a classic, they have done nothing significant since.

Again, my opinion. No wrongs or rights. For every one of my arguments, there will be a counter - however am not interested enough in PAMs to go on and on.

Each to his own. 

The most upsetting part is the response from Panerai fans when someone talks down on the brand, examples which can be seen from the posts here.

I'm pretty sure many members here have watch collections or even a single watch worth well more than my "house and ride" combined. But does that mean that your opinions on Panerai must be respected while others who do not have the moolah, need not?

Some of my friends have literally laughed at how stupid I am to pay so much for a Daytona. I did not shoot back and tell them it's worth more than their Proton Saga. Whether we feel ridiculed or slighted is purely up to us, and should not blame the anger on comments made by others. The anger might have come because we do not have security within ourselves and feel that there is some truth in what was said.

And on the history of Panerai, which no doubt there is some, is way over-hyped to justify the asking prices. And I won't even get started on the countless limited editions.

As I posted earlier as well, it is the owners of Panerai that seem to portray the brand as a fashion statement

If you strip down a Panerai against say a Parnis mechanical watch is there actually much of a difference between them? Both have a watch movement, a metal housing, dial and hands. That is basically it. Both watches tell time, which is basically why we wear a watch on our wrist in the first place. But if both tell time why not pay just a few hundred ringgit for a Parnis instead of forking out 20K+ for a Panerai? That's where the human ego comes to play. What started as a need became a want because we have the money to fuel it. Eventually, because we can afford it we buy more and more expensive watches not so much to tell time but basically to show off.

Admit it. There are millions of diver watches out there but how many actually use it to dive. You may argue you need a good water resistant watch to wear when swimming. Fair enough. There are plenty of good less well known watches with 300M To 600M rating out there to wear to go swimming without having to fork so much money out for a Rolex. We buy expensive branded watches to show off because we can afford it. It becomes a fashion statement.

So, if you ask me if Officine Panerai is a just a fashion house? Honestly, I do not know. Do not understand high fashion to comment on it. But I will say that wearing a Panerai watch is a fashion statement. It is just a watch movement with dial and hands housed in a very heavily overpriced block of steel.

A tool is a tool, but when you start paying gadzillion amount of money for a tool that is probably a little better than a very much cheaper tool doing the same thing, you are trying to make a statement. That statement is I can afford it and I want to show off.

For most posts to this topic, there is a gross deviation between whether the owners and makers of Panerai create an image of Panerai as a "fashion house" or if as the original topic asked "Is Officine Panerai just a fashion house".

Also, this topic is purely about asking if Panerai is a fashion brand, not any other brands.

In my views, unless Panerai

1. gets off the poor beaten horse of the Italian Navy watch history
2. gets it's own in-house movement in order (read as do more R&D)
3. comes up with some new innovative designs for watches instead of just 'limited editions" of the same

it will remain, in my view, as just a "fashion brand".

[TheHobbit]

Hi landyshah,

Great response and indeed interesting to see your views on the brand and watch. Let me share with you how I view the brand.

A few times I have attempted to buy a PAM (new and secondhand), but always walked away with some other watch. 

I have tried to rationalise it in a few ways, am not going to go into a long and deep discourse, as this brand hardly interests me. Happy to talk about Enicar tho 

That would be interesting, perhaps one day when and if we ever meet up. I have no knowledge about Enicar

As far as movements are concerned, as you and Bro Sattha pointed out - its all the same, its just about the image/status thing. I'm not a movement nut - but I'd say Panerai movements arent exactly cutting edge or ground breaking compared to what others like JLC, IWC, Seiko or Omega for example have done over the years.

Well, it is true that the modern Panerai (I will get more into this later) had Unitas movement fitted into their watches, but they have since moved into making their own movements. And it is interesting to see the development of their movement since 2005. Power reserve, tourbillon, GMT, etc. While I do not doubt the quality of the movements, but I guess like everything new, there will be hickups along the way. A learning process no doubt. I am sure others have had the same experience. I tend not to comment much on the movement of a watch because I have no expertise in movement making or movement design, so I leave it to the experts.

Anyway, historically Panerai have always used movements from outside, be it Rolex, or Angelus or Unitas. It is not cheap to come out with your own movements.

So it boils down to aesthetics and history for me.

Aesthetics - is subjective of course, but I see very little imagination in the design of PAM watches - more like recycling of the same thing again and again. This is made worse by the whole "LE" thing. They are also too big for my taste.

This is where Panerai marketing sometimes fail in my opinion. Perhaps driven by their collectors and fan boys, the mantra of 47 is the new 44. Panerai does offer watches in other sizes, 40 and 42 mm. You may want to consider these watches. True be told that there will be people who will come and tell you why? 40 and not 44. Well, you have to ask yourself, are you buying for yourself or to satisfy others? I have a white dial Panerai. That is the second ultimate doom in the panerai world, the first being a 40 mm white dial panerai. I don't really care because I like the watch.

With regards to history, Panerai is a 'new' company. Yes, it was founded years ago, but most if not all of its clients have been the military. It only really started to sell commercially to the civilian public in 1998. It did between 1993 to 1997, but that was to test acceptability of a 44 mm size watch by the general public and even that the test markets were limited to only 3 countries. So, Panerai as we know today, is only 15 years old.

The design of the watches can be rather similar at times, as most of the watches that people post or show are the popular ones. They do have lots of designs, but the basic design, the DNA perhaps of the brand, simple and easy to read, forms the basic of every watch. Hence the similarity in the watches. Have a look at the watches in the contemporary collection, the chrono models, the GMT models, submersible etc. Perhaps one of these watches may tickle your fancy? As for me, I like the watches in the historic collection. Yes, all the watches in this collection will all look similar, difference being in the case design, with the sub dial or not, logo or no logo, etc.

Many have said that the watches I have look the same. I understand where they are coming from. The best I can do is to show them the difference and how Panerai have moved towards trying to be as close to the original as they can, thus the move from for example painted dial to sandwich dial. Even the move to have ecru lume. Panerai recognise the wants of its customers for patina without the problems of tritium. I do not doubt that it was also a biz decision to have it done, but at the end of the day, all watch companies have a bottom line to look at and don't owe anybody save its investors and board of directors a living.

As for the SE or LE thing, I agree with you. Something in my opinion Panerai have to look at.

Perhaps it is because I like older watches that heritage and history matter. In this category, I would compare PAM with brands that use the same "heritage" or "history" marketing angle (Omega/NASA, IWC/RAF pilots, Rolex/Royal Navy/Comex etc).

Yes PAM has some history, but not as great as the marketing would lead us believe.

While all manufacturers are guilty of this (same thing would apply to the Rolex Explorer and Everest), I think PAM has the least substance.  The "heritage" is just not convincing enough - i mean the 30s and WW2 is a long time ago...what did they since then? They supplied 300 pieces to the Italian Navy, a few for other navies, and pretty much did nothing throughout to 60s - 90s. Look at the timeline in the website as you can see.

I mean, 300 pieces compared to how many Subs, FFs, Mark XIIs, Seiko Chronos, JSARs, G shocks etc that served in the real military?

Until 1995 and Stallone bought one and it became "fashionable".

Since then it has become "in" and Richemont milked the whole Italian Navy thing to the max.

Again to answer your question, Panerai have only been selling to the public since 1997/1998 officially, and even that at about 35,000 pieces a year. Yes, I am sure production has ramped up, but I am sure it does not exceed 50,000 pieces a year. Look at the other brands. They have been selling to the public since day one. Take Rolex for example, close to a million pieces a year. True that only a portion are from the sports collection, but even at 10% that is 100,000 a year. So, it is hard for Panerai to compete historically with these brands, other then its military past. But even then, it has to thread carefully as it does not want to be seen as promoting 'the wrong side'. I am sure had it been on 'the right side', Panerai marketing machinery would be working overtime.

To be honest, excluding Omega with its moon watch (which also has many many LE, 23 at last count) and X-33 (even that we cannot confirm if it still in production for the military and NASA purchase with the last recorded purchase being in 2007?), are the rest of the brands also relying on past glories? OK, Rolex has the deep dive thing it did with James Cameroon, but before that? IWC? with its Top Gun watches? When was the last mk series watches actually used by the military? The fifty fathoms? Look at the BP forum, all talking about the original FF from the 50s and 60s, anything on the new BP FF sports? All from years gone past. Panerai? Last glory most likely Mike Horn and his walk around the North Pole. Somehow I suspect Sir Ranulph Fiennes will be on most people lips compared to Mike Horn. And he had on a Kobold.

Hence my conclusion it is a fashion watch with a history blown out of proportion, with a price tag inflated to ride on this "history" and further elevated by so called "limited editions". Horoligically nothing cutting edge or special. While the original design was a classic, they have done nothing significant since.

My conclusion? I do like the brand, Its history, limited, convoluted, missing in parts, and short in the modern Panerai but it has manage to keep its DNA, its design and what it stand for pretty much intact. A watch that is a tool watch. I may not agree with some of its marketing concepts, its pricing, some of the things that it does, but I do admire it for what it has tried to do. New material, new movements, complications, and all in the past 15 or so years. You have to admit that it is more then what some of the other more established companies have been doing in the same 15 years.