Buying pre-owned/vintage Rolex fine timepieces

[Godzillaz]

Hehe you're dead now

holy cow, that's beautiful ivan. now u got me hooked.

[David_cheong]

Hobs...

That a great history of your rollie.....keep it up.

dc

[rusminag]

Hehe you're dead now

holy cow, that's beautiful ivan. now u got me hooked.

WOW!!!!!!!!

[Godzillaz]

Welcome to my nightmare. 

Hehe you're dead now

WOW!!!!!!!!

[gloomis]

Hehe you're dead now

now u kill alot of ppl here..

[Godzillaz]

This is the sick part.

Tropical brown dial. Patina at its best!

Photo by by the same person

Aging to a nice even color is the hardest part. A grail is not a grail if is easy obtainable.

Regard
Tyler

Hehe you're dead now

now u kill alot of ppl here..

[edshere]

Thanks for starting an informative and poisonous thread!!!

 

Please keep it coming.

[ck77]

Tyler, tell us more on this beauty. what's her history etc

[Godzillaz]

OK. First thing first. I don't own this watch... ... at least now I don't.

This is one of my dream watch.

The model is the early case of the first Sea-Dweller model, REF. 1665.

History of Rolex Sea-Dweller
When Rolex wants to develop an ultimate dive watch they seek COMEX for collaboration. Comex is a company that pioneer deep depth dive. After a few prototypes and testing with the existing model (mainly 5513), the Sea-Dweller is borned carrying the ref. 1665.

The initial idea is to present this model as a super submariner. One that have a depth rating of 2000ft, so Submariner 2000 is the name chosen but somehow the name Sea-Dweller got chosen as well. That's why the early 1665 carry both names on the dial and in red fonts. Hence the nickname Double Red Sea-Dweller (DRSD).

What's is more exciting is that during the production life of the ref 1665 exist 2 case profile and 2 dial version.

a thin case or a thick case,
a double red dial or white fonts sea-dweller dial without the "Submariner 2000" text.
The switch of the case happen in mid 60s while the dial changes happen in early 70s.

The thin case and the red text came first then follow by thick case and finally the white texts. There are less thin case than the thick. However according to some expert the red fonts dial exist in higher volume than the white fonts. I have not seen any official documents stating that claim.

Of course there're micro difference for various red dial and the white dial as well(too broad and too detail to go into now). To me the most interesting period for rolex has to be the mid 60s. Here is where the brown dial phenomenon happen. Dial made in this period has the tendency to develop to the color of chocolate brown. A version of the so called "tropical dial". There are other tropical dial in other period but none possess this kind of "brown"

The ultimate dream (my grail) is a thin case, DRSD with chocolate brown dial. The watch is super cool but the price is super not cool

I guess that's why it stay as a grail. Maybe one day ... ... (I am hopeful)

Hope you enjoy this post.

Regard
Tyler
 
   

 
 

Tyler, tell us more on this beauty. what's her history etc

[pexus]

Hobbit....your 1675 is killing us....

[ck77]

Aiya, thought is yours, so that I can molest it 

[Godzillaz]

I wish the same but finding one is hard and funding one is harder 

Regard
Tyler

Aiya, thought is yours, so that I can molest it 

[pexus]

I must add. ....Tyler and Hobbs...thanks for the lessons. keep them coming! 

I do have a practical question...

Assuming we have done some reading and shortlisted several `reputable' online vintage dealers (decent recommendation by previous customers, forums, etc).

Is it normal/rude(?) to ask these sellers to declare/reveal everything about a particular watch, in terms of replacement of parts when we write in for the first time ? From what I gather here, a major concern is replacement by service-parts, franken parts, or parts that do not match the actual model, etc, etc.  I am interested to know if sellers will actually give a complete or exhaustive list of any parts that has been replaced, and what the replacements were.

Or maybe they just reveal the major external ones (dial, hands, etc) or merely provide additional close up photos, and the rest is up to the buyer to decide.  Meaning the onus is on the buyer to quickly get the watch inspected after receiving it.  After inspection, if the buyer is not satisfy with the presence of any undesirable parts, they can then return the watch, as long as its within the timeline stated in the return of goods policy.

thanks!

[TheHobbit]

I must add. ....Tyler and Hobbs...thanks for the lessons. keep them coming! 

I do have a practical question...

Assuming we have done some reading and shortlisted several `reputable' online vintage dealers (decent recommendation by previous customers, forums, etc).

Is it normal/rude(?) to ask these sellers to declare/reveal everything about a particular watch, in terms of replacement of parts when we write in for the first time ? From what I gather here, a major concern is replacement by service-parts, franken parts, or parts that do not match the actual model, etc, etc.  I am interested to know if sellers will actually give a complete or exhaustive list of any parts that has been replaced, and what the replacements were.

Or maybe they just reveal the major external ones (dial, hands, etc) or merely provide additional close up photos, and the rest is up to the buyer to decide.  Meaning the onus is on the buyer to quickly get the watch inspected after receiving it.  After inspection, if the buyer is not satisfy with the presence of any undesirable parts, they can then return the watch, as long as its within the timeline stated in the return of goods policy.

thanks!

Personally I don't find it unreasonable to ask. However you will need to appreciate that the seller themselves may not know what was replaced unless he was the owner. The best thing is that you have access to some forums where the members are 'experts' and can and sometimes will tell you if the watch is dubious. You will still need to do your home work. Most important is that the money is yours and the watch is theirs. If they do not want (different from could not) to tell you, move on. There will be others. Important to buy the seller. I know of one on-line seller that will tell you everything to the best of his knowledge.

All the best with the hunt.

[pexus]

I must add. ....Tyler and Hobbs...thanks for the lessons. keep them coming! 

I do have a practical question...

Assuming we have done some reading and shortlisted several `reputable' online vintage dealers (decent recommendation by previous customers, forums, etc).

Is it normal/rude(?) to ask these sellers to declare/reveal everything about a particular watch, in terms of replacement of parts when we write in for the first time ? From what I gather here, a major concern is replacement by service-parts, franken parts, or parts that do not match the actual model, etc, etc.  I am interested to know if sellers will actually give a complete or exhaustive list of any parts that has been replaced, and what the replacements were.

Or maybe they just reveal the major external ones (dial, hands, etc) or merely provide additional close up photos, and the rest is up to the buyer to decide.  Meaning the onus is on the buyer to quickly get the watch inspected after receiving it.  After inspection, if the buyer is not satisfy with the presence of any undesirable parts, they can then return the watch, as long as its within the timeline stated in the return of goods policy.

thanks!

Personally I don't find it unreasonable to ask. However you will need to appreciate that the seller themselves may not know what was replaced unless he was the owner. The best thing is that you have access to some forums where the members are 'experts' and can and sometimes will tell you if the watch is dubious. You will still need to do your home work. Most important is that the money is yours and the watch is theirs. If they do not want (different from could not) to tell you, move on. There will be others. Important to buy the seller. I know of one on-line seller that will tell you everything to the best of his knowledge.

All the best with the hunt.

thanks bro! its amazing, that we will always go back to that old but tried and tested motto...buy the seller.  Yeah, the money belongs to the buyer and there should never be an unnecessary pressure to buy.   

The last part of you post is most exciting....mind sending the pm for that particular seller? 

[takashi78]

Even forum "experts" can be wrong.
I posted a watch in another famous forum where the are the most "experts".
One said dial is wrong, one said even the font of the word is funny!
Some said the placement of the logo is off by few mm!

Thing is, unless you have the real thing in front of you, a picture can only tell so much.

[Godzillaz]

How did you find out at the end?

Regard
Tyler

Even forum "experts" can be wrong.
I posted a watch in another famous forum where the are the most "experts".
One said dial is wrong, one said even the font of the word is funny!
Some said the placement of the logo is off by few mm!

Thing is, unless you have the real thing in front of you, a picture can only tell so much.

[takashi78]

Back to the factory and case solved.
ALL original.
Thats why how matter how good the internet experts are, unless they have the watch in hand, nothing is for sure.

But back to the topic.

I once saw a shop selling a 5513 with Explorer dial. How rare is that!
But upon hearing a conversation between the boss and the middleman. Apparently its made up of parts which they say is correct for the model. Means dial,hands, crown etc is sourced separately and put together.
Still original?

They even went as far as hand carry the watch to Rolex in Swiss to check for "service", whether they did the service or not i am not sure.

Still wanna buy it? Some will some will not.

And dont ask me which shop it is.

[Godzillaz]

How old is the watch? It went back to Geneva for authentication?

Regard
Tyler

Back to the factory and case solved.
ALL original.
Thats why how matter how good the internet experts are, unless they have the watch in hand, nothing is for sure.

But back to the topic.

I once saw a shop selling a 5513 with Explorer dial. How rare is that!
But upon hearing a conversation between the boss and the middleman. Apparently its made up of parts which they say is correct for the model. Means dial,hands, crown etc is sourced separately and put together.
Still original?

They even went as far as hand carry the watch to Rolex in Swiss to check for "service", whether they did the service or not i am not sure.

Still wanna buy it? Some will some will not.

And dont ask me which shop it is.

[takashi78]

As old as a 5513 can get?

No idea, didnt bother to ask. Like i said, the owner paid the middleman to hand carry the watch back to Geneva.

[terrenceterrence]

Not Double Red but my friend was trying to offload this beauty... with papers and from Steve Mulholland

[ck77]

The pip look like SL to me ?

[terrenceterrence]

not sure about that. was with him on a hunt that day for a period correct bracelet and endlinks and manage to find it. now it's a complete period correct head and bracelet.

as for the bezel...not sure. photos taken with my old 3gs

not an expert on the details but compared to my SL 14060M, the pip have on my bezel have a more pronounced "metal surround" around the pip. The Single Red has none.

[Godzillaz]

Actually I'm asking about the watch you post on the other forum. How old is your watch?

Regard
Tyler

As old as a 5513 can get?

No idea, didnt bother to ask. Like i said, the owner paid the middleman to hand carry the watch back to Geneva.

[takashi78]

Bout 26-30yrs old.