Author Topic: How to check Vintage watches???  (Read 17701 times)

Offline siodee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1267
  • lalala..la..lalala....lala...lalalalala
How to check Vintage watches???
« on: May 17, 2011, 03:42:03 PM »
Recently saw some vintage watches online, wonder the watches come with original parts or most of them already replace with replica parts???
“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore... Dream... Discover..." - Mark Twain

Offline ry

  • Freshie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2011, 07:02:32 PM »
   What i do is do extensive search on the websites or google the item.Target and focussed on the item you want.Read up and search for photos and serial no related to the watch.
          I was interested in the seamaster Omega of the 50s or 60s but too many of those are with refurbished dial or hands,so gave up.Some of the sellers are honest enough to declare this but not all.
  The other way is to post the photo of your impending purchase on the forum and get gurus to comment.This again is very difficult to verify as come unscrupulous seller will use stolen photos.
   Best is to go for the seller.Buy the seller.They are normally well known in the forum as they have sold plenty and vouched by many.May at times pay a slight premium for it though.

Offline siodee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1267
  • lalala..la..lalala....lala...lalalalala
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2011, 07:42:11 AM »
Bro, can you PM me some of the online seller that you have bought before, thinking of getting a Vintage watch....

I am interested in Omega
“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore... Dream... Discover..." - Mark Twain

Offline Manburg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2011, 09:07:18 AM »
Another way is to buy from a seller that gives you a warranty (preferably one year) and allows you to get it verified. For example, if it's a Rolex, you can have it verified by RSC (of course on your own tab) and if there's anything wrong, you can go back to the seller. I know a seller that does this.
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” BILL SHANKLY

Offline siodee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1267
  • lalala..la..lalala....lala...lalalalala
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2011, 02:29:33 PM »
hard to find this kind of seller for Omega with 1 yr warranty, the best they provide is 14 days, return and refund. From outside of the watch, seem genuine, but worry they replace the movement, parts with replica.

PM me any seller that you have known to sell genuine vintage omega...thanks... :Laughing_on_floor:
“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore... Dream... Discover..." - Mark Twain

Offline Manburg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2011, 10:55:00 PM »
Well, I don't think he's got any vintage Omega (a few Moonwatch lying around, but definitely not vintage, yet).
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” BILL SHANKLY

Offline TheHobbit

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3328
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2011, 03:30:16 PM »
Well, I don't think he's got any vintage Omega (a few Moonwatch lying around, but definitely not vintage, yet).

Emmmm must pm me this place.

Offline mister_lau

  • Freshie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2011, 07:30:41 PM »
hard to find this kind of seller for Omega with 1 yr warranty, the best they provide is 14 days, return and refund. From outside of the watch, seem genuine, but worry they replace the movement, parts with replica.

PM me any seller that you have known to sell genuine vintage omega...thanks... :Laughing_on_floor:

This is one of my lovely Omega collections. Might consider to let go at the right price  :Cheers:
« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 10:12:46 PM by mister_lau »

Offline spoonfork

  • Freshie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Out of the f**king way! Iban dude coming through!
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2011, 09:15:52 PM »
The crown does not have the Omega logo?

Offline mister_lau

  • Freshie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2011, 09:55:30 PM »
The crown does not have the Omega logo?

Yes, the winder is not original omega  ;)

Offline panerai10days

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2011, 04:52:59 PM »
This could be the nice omega hand wound watch, it was with very clean the movement, i prefer u find the original crow before u let go  :thumbsup:

Offline mister_lau

  • Freshie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2011, 08:54:16 PM »
Thanks for the compliment :) I am not sure if it would be a daunting task to find the original crown, I would probably just get an Omega crown with right size.

Offline terrenceterrence

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2476
    • scrapsofmylife
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2011, 02:21:40 AM »
Thanks for the compliment :) I am not sure if it would be a daunting task to find the original crown, I would probably just get an Omega crown with right size.


tried Ofrei?
Better outrun my gun....faster than my bullet


Offline Watchnewby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1289
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2011, 08:27:12 AM »
General Tips that I read about and wish to share with everyone :

1. Type of watch and "Trend"
One will need to find out the type of watch and the trend at that period of time of the vintage watch in the pre-owned market. Generally we know that a diver watch with scuba bexel only exist in the early 60s ever since the invention of Rolex Submariner in the late 50s. If you found a divers watch and the seller claim it to be made in the 40s, you will know something is not right.
If the seller claims that automatic chronograph watches (which was marketed around 60s; prior to that only manual-winding watches are available) were from 50s, what will you think? These a re few of the basic knowledge which can guide us on vintage and antique watches.

2. "Brand Familiarity"’ and ‘Watches Signature’
There are literrally thousands of brands from Switzerland, and Swiss brand which are ’localised’ in Hong Kong. Same goes for Seiko, Orient and Citizen from Japan. HMT India has collaboration with Citizen of Japan. Every watch has its own "signature".
For example Omega watches from 1950s and above has Omega logo on its, seahorse logo on the casing for Seamaster watches, "Observatory" logo for Constellation model etc.
The Omega Serial number can be found on its movement or "engine" which denotes 7 hingga 8 digit numbers and can tell when the watch is manufactured.

3. "Watches Material" dan "Watches Movement’
1970s sports model watches mostly used "hardened mineral glass" and if this watch is using acrylic, the crystal is most likely changed and it become a "rojak" watch. The same goes for the watch movement.
For example, a Tudor calendar watch uses ETA movement dan AS (depending on the model and year made). There is a Tudor signature at the winding rotor dan watch plate. If none, most likely the watch movement was changed. Same goes for watches using ETA, AS, Lehmania, Venus and Valjoux movement. To recognise the type of movement used by high end watches is necessary to avoid being cheated. This requires a high interest in knowledge of watches. If not sure, get feedback and opinion of experience vintage/antique watch collector.

4. Checking Watch Condition.
It will be impossible to check the watch condition if one was to buy through internet. The physical condition of a watch depends on the seller, as one can only check the watch after we paid for it and the watch was delivered to us. If buy from shops, one can do the followings :

Method #1 Automatic or Manual Winding
(For manual-winding) - Wind the watch crown and listen to the train wheels sound. The sound should be consistent and gear movement not “stuck” as the watch is being wound up.
(For Automatic) – shake it and the watch should be moving fine.

Method #2 Look at the second hand and ensure that it is moving consistently and can last a couple of minutes. If the second  hand stops repeat method #1. If it still stop, a few possibility : (1) centre wheel or second wheel spoilt, (2) transmission wheel jammed up, (3) watch barrel stuck and (4) watch escape mechanisme not functioning well.

Method #3 Turn the crown for a period of 24 hours (clockwise). Ensure every 1 hour count – the hour and minute hands is at the correct index. For calendar watches ensure the date changes between 10 hingga 12 hour index (pm) and shown in the center of the date window.

Method #4 Open the back casing and look at the movement (engine or motor for layman’s term). When the watch is functioning properly, observe the balance wheel movement. Ensure it is stable at a horizontal position. If not, maybe the spring on the balance wheel is spoilt resulting difficulty in tuning to get the correct time.

Method #5  Look at the regulator or tuner. If Swiss watch, sometimes part of the bridge has inscription r ‘F’ for Fast and ‘S’ for Slow. If the needle (regulator marker) is near the ’F’ at maximum index, it means that the watch timing has reached its peak and require to be serviced or “overhaul". Some watch showed a + or -, instead of “F” & “S”

Method #6 On automatic watch, it has a rotor plate. The part moving once we shake the watch. If the rotor movement not smooth, possibility of rust or friction on the roller-ball or ball bearing on the winding mechanisme.

Method #7 For divers watch which has an outer bezel, turn the bezel clockwise and ensure the turning is smooth. If not, maybe the ball-bearing, rubber (bezel rubber inset only on Japanese watches), and holding wire spoilt. There is a possibility of dirt accumulated or rust on the bezel tooth.

In summary, the combination of the above methods in checking a condition of a watch physically. It also depends on the type of watch. Another advice is to observe the timing of the watch as compared with a quartz watch (for hours). If the timing is fast/slow compared with the quartz watch (which is very accurate) that means something need to be done on the vintage watch.

Have a Good weekend.
Chng
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 03:46:46 PM by Watchnewby »

Offline David_cheong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1772
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2011, 09:28:35 PM »
Chang

You really learn a lot these days and thanks for sharing....

dc
I am almost a recovered watchaholic, but last checked shows only 70% recovered. How?

Offline Watchnewby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1289
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2011, 09:15:06 AM »
David,
Thanks for the compliment.
But as my username denotes, I still have a long way to learn. Especially in my post earlier #3, still need the watch "sifus" here for their opinion and advices.


Offline siodee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1267
  • lalala..la..lalala....lala...lalalalala
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2011, 09:14:06 AM »
Bro, very informative, thanks for the write-up; just a few question;

General Tips that I read about and wish to share with everyone :


Method #1 Automatic or Manual Winding
(For manual-winding) - Wind the watch crown and listen to the train wheels sound. The sound should be consistent and gear movement not “stuck” as the watch is being wound up.
(For Automatic) – shake it and the watch should be moving fine.

Method #5  Look at the regulator or tuner. If Swiss watch, sometimes part of the bridge has inscription r ‘F’ for Fast and ‘S’ for Slow. If the needle (regulator marker) is near the ’F’ at maximum index, it means that the watch timing has reached its peak and require to be serviced or “overhau”'. Some watch showed a + or -, instead of “F” & “S”

Have a Good weekend.
Chng

Method 1 - Train wheel sound, is it like "tak tak tak"???? not "choo choo" right???

Method 5 - I am confuse :Confused:

“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore... Dream... Discover..." - Mark Twain

Offline TheHobbit

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3328
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2011, 02:54:06 PM »

Method #3 Turn the crown for a period of 24 hours (clockwise). Ensure every 1 hour count jam – the hour and minute hands is at the correct index. For calendar watches ensure the date changes between 10 hingga 12 hour index (pm) and shown in the center of the date window.


Method #7 For divers watch which has an outer bezel, turn the bezel clockwise and ensure the turning is smooth. If not, maybe the ball-bearing, rubber (bezel rubber inset only on Japanese watches), and holding wire spoilt. There is a possibility of dirt accumulated or rust on the bezel tooth.


With regards to Method #3, some watches the date change only start at about 12 midnight and some even start at 1 am. ETA 7750 is known   (but not all) to change date at about 1 am.

With regards to Method #7, I believe it is anti-clockwise. The bezel will only rotate clockwise if the watch is fitted with a countdown bezel. If the watch is fitted with an elapsed time bezel (to measure dive time), it is normally anti-clockwise. The reason for this is so that if the bezel gets knocked and the bezel rotates, the dive time is reduced, ensuring the diver do not stay too long underwater. Also having the bezel rotate clockwise in a dive bezel is 'seen' as 'chasing time' i.e. trying to get the bezel marker (normally a triangle) to to sweep seconds hand in a clockwise direction is 'chasing' the seconds hand.

Offline Watchnewby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1289
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2011, 04:22:10 PM »
Bro, very informative, thanks for the write-up; just a few question;

General Tips that I read about and wish to share with everyone :


Method #1 Automatic or Manual Winding
(For manual-winding) - Wind the watch crown and listen to the train wheels sound. The sound should be consistent and gear movement not “stuck” as the watch is being wound up.
(For Automatic) – shake it and the watch should be moving fine.

Method #5  Look at the regulator or tuner. If Swiss watch, sometimes part of the bridge has inscription  ‘F’ for Fast and ‘S’ for Slow. If the needle (regulator marker) is near the ’F’ at maximum index, it means that the watch timing has reached its peak and require to be serviced or “overhaul”'. Some watch showed a + or -, instead of “F” & “S”

Have a Good weekend.
Chng

Method 1 - Train wheel sound, is it like "tak tak tak"???? not "choo choo" right???

Method 5 - I am confuse :Confused:

Method 1 - "tak, tak. tak" should sound consistent, to my understanding. I welcome any other watch sifus who can add more to the explanation above.

Method 5 - per the diagram attached (Hamilton watch) shows "+ & -" inscribed on the parts of the watch. I believe this is what it meant if the needle is near the "+", the watch need to be serviced. The other one (Longines) showed a "F & S".
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 04:31:33 PM by Watchnewby »

Offline Watchnewby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1289
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2011, 04:34:15 PM »
With regards to Method #3, some watches the date change only start at about 12 midnight and some even start at 1 am. ETA 7750 is known   (but not all) to change date at about 1 am.

With regards to Method #7, I believe it is anti-clockwise. The bezel will only rotate clockwise if the watch is fitted with a countdown bezel. If the watch is fitted with an elapsed time bezel (to measure dive time), it is normally anti-clockwise. The reason for this is so that if the bezel gets knocked and the bezel rotates, the dive time is reduced, ensuring the diver do not stay too long underwater. Also having the bezel rotate clockwise in a dive bezel is 'seen' as 'chasing time' i.e. trying to get the bezel marker (normally a triangle) to to sweep seconds hand in a clockwise direction is 'chasing' the seconds hand.

Points noted and Thanks, Hobbit.
Learn something new today.

Offline TheHobbit

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3328
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2011, 08:34:53 PM »

Method #5  Look at the regulator or tuner. If Swiss watch, sometimes part of the bridge has inscription r ‘F’ for Fast and ‘S’ for Slow. If the needle (regulator marker) is near the ’F’ at maximum index, it means that the watch timing has reached its peak and require to be serviced or “overhaul". Some watch showed a + or -, instead of “F” & “S”


It applies if the regulator is at the full 'S' position as well. If a watch has been properly COR (Clean, Oil, Regulate), the position of the needle should be within 50% of either side of center. What is important to remember is that a properly COR watch is adjusted so that the average running rate is as close to zero error in the most common position. Also regulating and adjusting are two very different operations. And the regulating you see being done at your local watch guy (when he or she adjust the regulator to F or S), the watch is accurate in that position at the time of regulation (usually dial up).

Offline terrenceterrence

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2476
    • scrapsofmylife
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2011, 08:38:54 PM »

Method 5 - per the diagram attached (Hamilton watch) shows "+ & -" inscribed on the parts of the watch. I believe this is what it meant if the needle is near the "+", the watch need to be serviced. The other one (Longines) showed a "F & S".

thought that is for regulating the watch if it's running fast or slow?  ???

Better outrun my gun....faster than my bullet


Offline TheHobbit

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3328
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2011, 09:13:56 PM »

Method 5 - per the diagram attached (Hamilton watch) shows "+ & -" inscribed on the parts of the watch. I believe this is what it meant if the needle is near the "+", the watch need to be serviced. The other one (Longines) showed a "F & S".

thought that is for regulating the watch if it's running fast or slow?  ???

It is. However if the needle has been adjusted to either extremes of the indicator, it would indicate that the something is wrong with the movement and it would require a good Cleaning, Oiling and Regulating, hence COR.

Offline siodee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1267
  • lalala..la..lalala....lala...lalalalala
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2011, 07:18:47 AM »

Method 5 - per the diagram attached (Hamilton watch) shows "+ & -" inscribed on the parts of the watch. I believe this is what it meant if the needle is near the "+", the watch need to be serviced. The other one (Longines) showed a "F & S".

thought that is for regulating the watch if it's running fast or slow?  ???

It is. However if the needle has been adjusted to either extremes of the indicator, it would indicate that the something is wrong with the movement and it would require a good Cleaning, Oiling and Regulating, hence COR.

Just want to get the layman term, does it mean before winding, the needle already in the "F" or "+" position??
“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore... Dream... Discover..." - Mark Twain

Offline TheHobbit

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3328
Re: How to check Vintage watches???
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2011, 07:50:29 AM »

Just want to get the layman term, does it mean before winding, the needle already in the "F" or "+" position??

siodee,

It is not a power reserve indicator. It is used to regulate the watch. If the watch is running fast, you will regulate it (needle) to the 'S' and if slow, push the needle to the 'F'.