Author Topic: Weems Watches of WW2  (Read 12883 times)

Offline siewming

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Weems Watches of WW2
« on: November 09, 2014, 01:00:20 PM »
Part 2 of my military watch OCD.

During the early days of ww2, Weems watches were issued to airman/navigators as a mean to sychronise and measure flight elapse times, before the direct hacking movement became common in wristwatches.  The Air Ministry (A.M) of U.K in 1940 procured a quantity of these watches from five Swiss manufacturers – Longines, Omega, Movado, Zenith and LeCoultre. They were given the issue code 6B/159, Mark VIIa, and were based on the movements: Longines - cal 12.68N, Omega - cal 23.4, Movado - cal 150MM, Zenith - cal 106 and LeCoultre - cal 450.  All were supplied via Goldsmiths & Silversmiths Co. Ltd as stamped on the back, with the exception of LeCoultre which was supplied by S.S & Sons.

(A.M Weems 6B/159)



They shared the common design feature of external rotating bezel and a locking crown at ’4 clock position. Omega, Zenith and Movado used identical case and relied on a spacer ring to accommodate different movement sizes between the brands. Longines and LeCoulter on the hands followed their own unique case design, which were also used on their civilian watches.  The case similarly measures approximately 33 mm across without the crown. Many of these Weems did not survive the war and most were later replaced by the more common non-Weems 6B/159 Longines and Omega.



One of the weaknesses of these earlier Weems watches is the fragile bezel locking mechanism. It uses a small metal spring to engage and lock against the teeth of the bezel when the locking crowned in screwed in.  Moisture and dirts tend to accumulate under the bezel, causing corrosions and the spring to shear off under stress. For these reasons, they were often found with the locking crown missing and, sometimes, the hole left behind was plugged with solder.



Air Ministry was not alone in adopting the Weems watches, U.S Army Air Corp (U.S.A.A.C) also procured Longines and Lecoultre Weems for their navigators, in 1940 and 1942, respectively. These made up the earliest Type A-11 navigator watches, before the home produced Hamilton, Elgin, Waltham and Bulova A11s became available in quantity.  The U.S.A.A.C ‘s Lecoultre is identical to the A.M except for the dial of the latter was not signed. The U.S issued Longines, however, was much smaller at 28mm based on the 10L movement, instead of 12L found on the bigger brother.

(U.S.A.A.C LeCoultre Weems)



(U.S.A.A.C Longines Weems)



In 1941, U.S.A.A.C also procured a quantity of Longines Type A-11 with direct hacking movement Longines 12.68Z and thus without the characteristic Weems bezel.  These non-Weems A-11 Longines are relatively rare and were issued for one year only. I have the fortunes of acquiring a few over the years.
 
(U.S.A.A.C Non-Weems Longines Type A-11)



Taking the Weems concept further, US Army Air Force (USAAF), in collaboration of Bulova Watch Co, developed the Type A-15 experimental watch during ww2. It used the now common Bulova 10AKCSH hacking movement and added two independent internal bezels to it to enable long distance elapse timing. The bezels are turned by the crowns at ‘2 and ‘4 and hence could measure elapse time of up to 12 hours, in sub divisions of minutes and seconds. According to the military archive document, a relatively small quantity of about 500 of Type A-15 were procured in 1944, they were service tested at various theatres of operation (US, Europe, Asia and the Pacific) in late 1944 and early 1945 but was never formally adopted for general issue. This particular example came from England, possibly one of the 88 pieces tested at the RAF Warton.   
 
(Buloval Type A-15)


Offline rainbowfix

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Re: Weems Watches of WW2
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2014, 05:36:04 PM »
Whaooo!!!that bulova is super awesome ... been looking for one for ages... the whole collection just left me... :Startled:....keep it coming, more pics of the bulova please....

Offline siewming

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Re: Weems Watches of WW2
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2014, 07:23:03 AM »
Whaooo!!!that bulova is super awesome ... been looking for one for ages... the whole collection just left me... :Startled:....keep it coming, more pics of the bulova please....

Thanks! Bulova A-15 is an interesting watch, its official name is "Type A-15 Elapsed Time Watch". The test program was officially ended in 1st May 1945 due to "no military requirement for this type of watch", presumably end of ww2 was in sight. The test watches were not required to be returned to the Air Technical Service Command, so some were  actually issued as regular A-11 watches after the program.  Some A-15 have sterile back with no issue marking and could be the surpluses from Bulova after the war.     

A few more pictures showing the sterile version and the skeleton under the dial. The last picture shown the watch being used by some Japan websites to advertise the new Bulova A-15 limited edition homage. Incidentally the homage is also an interesting watch and I could not resist to get one as a daily beater! 






Offline chrisyen

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Re: Weems Watches of WW2
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2014, 09:10:33 AM »
 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

omg ! i better do more study on these tonight before i dare to ask question !

inner bezel never durable more so with softer steel those days! but better looking than external bezel !


Offline rainbowfix

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Re: Weems Watches of WW2
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2014, 12:49:23 PM »
This  bulova is really awsome. So far this is the only watch I  encountered which has both hour and minute internal bezel, 24hr markings  & hacking  movement .... almost  like a Swiss  army  knife ...and this is the watch version... ;D... is the bulova swiss made or made in the US of A ? n can pm me where to get the bulova homage... looks really sweet .....thanks  in  advance.

Offline siewming

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Re: Weems Watches of WW2
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2014, 04:37:45 PM »
This  bulova is really awsome. So far this is the only watch I  encountered which has both hour and minute internal bezel, 24hr markings  & hacking  movement .... almost  like a Swiss  army  knife ...and this is the watch version... ;D... is the bulova swiss made or made in the US of A ? n can pm me where to get the bulova homage... looks really sweet .....thanks  in  advance.

The A-15 Bulova was US made, inside case back was signed Fifth Ave New York.


The A-15 homage was initially released to the Japanese market only late last year (being owned by the Citizen group) for a limited quantity of 500 pieces- about the same as the original ww2 figure. If you do a google search, they are now a few online sellers offering the watch outside Japan.   

Quote from: chrisyen
inner bezel never durable more so with softer steel those days! but better looking than external bezel !
The problem with inner bezel is often due to improper seating of crystal or incorrect crystal type, causing it to press against the bezel. When the bezel crown is turned too hard, it break off the pinion or wipe out the bezel teeth.   


Offline chrisyen

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Re: Weems Watches of WW2
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2014, 02:28:14 PM »

Offline siewming

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Re: Weems Watches of WW2
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2014, 05:38:20 PM »
http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?44426-Bulova-Type-A-15-Elapsed-Time-Watch

the homage also look good, whats the movement inside?

Ken (hq_sandman_ute) has posted some great information on Bulova A-15 at the above MWR link, results of his usual excellent detective works. Before that there were  scepticism by some about the origin and provenance of the watch. Here is another early discussion thread on the watch;
http://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/990103944/m/597106623?r=407100723#407100723

The homage has an ETA 2824 hacking movement inside.

Offline terrenceterrence

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Re: Weems Watches of WW2
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2014, 11:40:54 PM »
Off topic abit, I have a slightly modern version of the modified weems by colonel Lindbergh for navigation using one of Longines' last in house calibre.

Kind of sad that they decided to remove the super compressor crown and replaced it with a button to open the hunter caseback. Now, to rotate the inner dial, the crown needs to be pulled one notch up like setting the date on a regular watch.

The watch is used to check elapsed distance by setting the longitude and latitude using the bezel and inner dial.




« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 11:44:45 PM by terrenceterrence »
Better outrun my gun....faster than my bullet


Offline siewming

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Re: Weems Watches of WW2
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2014, 10:00:52 AM »
Off topic abit, I have a slightly modern version of the modified weems by colonel Lindbergh for navigation using one of Longines' last in house calibre.

Kind of sad that they decided to remove the super compressor crown and replaced it with a button to open the hunter caseback. Now, to rotate the inner dial, the crown needs to be pulled one notch up like setting the date on a regular watch.

The watch is used to check elapsed distance by setting the longitude and latitude using the bezel and inner dial.



Lindbergh hour angle is also a every interesting watch. Longines made several versions of the watch since mid 30s and I recall that all the earlier versions in large silver case have pin set crown. I have a mid size example from early 40s in stainless steel, which I will post on a separate thread later.

The most desirable weems is this extra large version with ceramic dial, internal rotating disc and big onion crown. A small quantity was supplied to the US Army AC at the beginning of ww2, designated as Type A-3. Curiously, Longines also supplied the same watch to the Imperial Japanese Navy around the same time, a predecessor to the large Seikosha pilot watch, playing to both sides before the war embargo! 
 



Offline rainbowfix

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Re: Weems Watches of WW2
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2014, 03:07:41 PM »

Offline chrisyen

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Re: Weems Watches of WW2
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2014, 01:42:08 PM »

Offline siewming

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Re: Weems Watches of WW2
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2014, 05:48:45 AM »

the lug.... welded with bar?

It has welded lug bars. This watch is one of my top sock drawer queens, at 47mm across is just unwearable on my wrist.     

Offline Bert Lee

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Re: Weems Watches of WW2
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2014, 08:31:13 PM »

the lug.... welded with bar?

It has welded lug bars. This watch is one of my top sock drawer queens, at 47mm across is just unwearable on my wrist.   

Don't worry.. Send it along this way... I can wear it for you... :D