Post by: ray6969 on March 01, 2022, 06:01:57 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FCFCQXnkNXI&t=244s
Price elasticity, product scarcity, exclusivity will drive certain products/ markets to unique levels. Prices are being driven by a global market , that global resellers will see, so it’s be interesting to see the data on “trading” / sales data and where these pieces are going (globally). Then we’d know.
I think that as long as there are unique products that people will not easily substitute something else with , and we are in high global demand , we’ll see prices remain strong. I mean, if your a Daytona guy, guess what, an AP may never do it for you...microeconomics is demand and supply curve..
I guess we need to wait to see if we are seeing hype or real supply/demand. I think it’s the latter because I really don’t see hype out there , rather genuine, broad interest backed by a strong economy, and people wanting what they want. To me hype is a trend, and timepieces have long been appreciated so is it a trend...I dont think so, maybe just more people getting into the game due to great content on modern channels (Youtube and other social platforms)
Two things I think are relevant to the spike, COVID & rise in wealth in general. As the world re-opens, that could shift focus of spend back to other things.
Point being if i want a certain but hard to get the timepieces (for whatever reason) and there’s not a suitable substitute (sometime others brand but it's about horological aspect) , would i just ditch the watch of my dreams or find a way to get it, whether it be a Rolex. Kinda explains the insanity behind the rise on any "hot watch" being hype. Just my 2 cents, and sorry for the long comment, but it’s not a simple dynamic that is playing out.
It's been a wild ride these past 2 years, I think people are starting to rethink their investment strategy with watches, and look for real horological value and rarity more than a watch that is readily available but for x3-x4 MSRP. I think we should see a correction soon, as this price action is not sustainable.
Any comment all bros and sifu, feel free to comment and share ideas.
Sent from my CPH1715 using Tapatalk
Post by: rnsm1979 on March 02, 2022, 08:45:35 AM
for those flipper that bought it at those inflated price, be ready to get BURN once the market re-adjust to reality, hopefully this happen quickly
Post by: Squirty on March 07, 2022, 10:24:18 AM
Post by: ray6969 on March 07, 2022, 01:00:40 PM
i agree, it depends on the piece you are holding. IMO pieces like the daydates have been long considered a strong investment piece. Slow and steady rise. i would have never imagined that a SS panda daytona would be trading close to 300k rm. kinda ridiculous imo.
I agreed with you mate..i agreed that SS Panda Daytona is beauty , legendary craftsmanship, a reliable tool, but it not a RM 300,000.00!!!....with that money, better i bought a second hand house at suburban place at KL (come with amenities/LRT) and become a landlord.. :Laughing_on_floor: :D
Post by: dpkong on March 08, 2022, 08:10:55 AM
Always good to cash in when you can before the pyramid topples....
Post by: bulletnos on March 08, 2022, 09:21:28 AM
I wonder if the people who bought them last year at 150k have actually sold them at 300k?
Always good to cash in when you can before the pyramid topples....
I think these individuals would have traded in to a grey dealer perhaps at RM250k…still pocket RM100k. And the cycle carries on. Grey dealers buy from each other too at a slight margin if they cant move it, leading the market to think that it traded at that price, and next thing u know another dealer has it - until an unsuspecting shark buys it up. At least that’s what I think la.
Post by: dpkong on March 08, 2022, 09:40:54 AM
but just going by the thread title, it's just turbulence and maybe corrections but should not be any crash unless we run out of people with too much money and nothing to spend on...
however, on the regular R forums, a lot of people are getting calls for their SS Daytona so wonder if that will create a dent in the scarcity hype...
Post by: rnsm1979 on March 08, 2022, 12:05:42 PM
I don't meant that is bad but it just started at the wrong conception where watch collecting is all about
Post by: W3ll on March 08, 2022, 12:08:02 PM
Post by: ray6969 on March 08, 2022, 01:14:56 PM
but just going by the thread title, it's just turbulence and maybe corrections but should not be any crash unless we run out of people with too much money and nothing to spend on...
however, on the regular R forums, a lot of people are getting calls for their SS Daytona so wonder if that will create a dent in the scarcity hype...
Congratulation on a "lot of people" that are getting call from Authorised Dealer (AD) for their SS Daytona....that we call its a real proper "flexing" which is get it from MSRP (retail), rather that from professional flipper/ grey market...
Post by: kram45 on March 11, 2022, 11:33:06 AM
Post by: bulletnos on March 11, 2022, 04:27:00 PM
but just going by the thread title, it's just turbulence and maybe corrections but should not be any crash unless we run out of people with too much money and nothing to spend on...
however, on the regular R forums, a lot of people are getting calls for their SS Daytona so wonder if that will create a dent in the scarcity hype...
Congratulation on a "lot of people" that are getting call from Authorised Dealer (AD) for their SS Daytona....that we call its a real proper "flexing" which is get it from MSRP (retail), rather that from professional flipper/ grey market...
Perhaps what many dont see is how much dough they've dropped in those AD's to get these pieces... :HammerHead:
Post by: hmkpwatches on March 11, 2022, 06:16:43 PM
Post by: W3ll on March 12, 2022, 07:29:47 AM
Post by: G.MAC on March 12, 2022, 08:15:06 AM
Post by: Cocas on March 12, 2022, 12:17:51 PM
NFT, cryptocurrency , shares, property markets will crash but an artistic luxury watch market will never crash.
because it's an art , not science!
Post by: W3ll on March 12, 2022, 12:34:25 PM
watch market is a super weird market.
NFT, cryptocurrency , shares, property markets will crash but an artistic luxury watch market will never crash.
because it's an art , not science!
People these days are treating the watches as investment rather than art or enjoyment piece, and that's what is going to cause a crash, when the hype up pricing buyers begin to piss their pants when they no longer can sell for higher.
Post by: pleasuresaurus on March 13, 2022, 09:58:39 AM
watch market is a super weird market.
NFT, cryptocurrency , shares, property markets will crash but an artistic luxury watch market will never crash.
because it's an art , not science!
People these days are treating the watches as investment rather than art or enjoyment piece, and that's what is going to cause a crash, when the hype up pricing buyers begin to piss their pants when they no longer can sell for higher.
(https://i.ibb.co/BNjzsx5/memeaaaaa.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Post by: bulletnos on March 13, 2022, 02:36:17 PM
Post by: ray6969 on March 14, 2022, 07:52:38 AM
but just going by the thread title, it's just turbulence and maybe corrections but should not be any crash unless we run out of people with too much money and nothing to spend on...
however, on the regular R forums, a lot of people are getting calls for their SS Daytona so wonder if that will create a dent in the scarcity hype...
Congratulation on a "lot of people" that are getting call from Authorised Dealer (AD) for their SS Daytona....that we call its a real proper "flexing" which is get it from MSRP (retail), rather that from professional flipper/ grey market...
Perhaps what many dont see is how much dough they've dropped in those AD's to get these pieces... :HammerHead:
I understand, sometime and minority of "they've" (don't see is how much dough they've dropped in those AD's to get these pieces) has become a professional flipper, but that is a reality.
I love its,i hope now prices is stabilising and corrections. Look for real horological value and rarity, I think we should see a correction soon, as this price action is not sustainable.
In 2011 , when i start on horology watch journey...its not about values but love of timepieces and craftsmanship horological.
Post by: swleong on March 14, 2022, 08:02:32 AM
Can already start to see some Rolex prices dropping in the secondary/grey market… now we wait…
really? I just saw a post of white dial ceramic Daytona selling for RM240k few days ago? It was in sub RM200k few weeks ago.
Post by: G.MAC on March 14, 2022, 08:26:25 AM
The steel Daytona always the last to be adjusted. Hot since 1988.Can already start to see some Rolex prices dropping in the secondary/grey market… now we wait…
really? I just saw a post of white dial ceramic Daytona selling for RM240k few days ago? It was in sub RM200k few weeks ago.
Post by: W3ll on March 14, 2022, 10:14:26 AM
Can already start to see some Rolex prices dropping in the secondary/grey market… now we wait…
really? I just saw a post of white dial ceramic Daytona selling for RM240k few days ago? It was in sub RM200k few weeks ago.
The grey can put whatever price they like, reality is no people is buying it, it went from RM268k down to 230k, in fact i think i even saw RM218k.. and yet it is still unsold.
Post by: ray6969 on March 14, 2022, 10:36:27 AM
Can already start to see some Rolex prices dropping in the secondary/grey market… now we wait…
really? I just saw a post of white dial ceramic Daytona selling for RM240k few days ago? It was in sub RM200k few weeks ago.
wow!!! i don't know the price of this SUBMARINER is RM 200,000.00!!!! , for sure this piece is rare and legendary ??? nice siri number??? tropical dial??? COMEX???? RED SUBMARINER DIAL?? PATINA?? JAMES BOND 50s?? haha :Laughing_on_floor:
Post by: Squirty on March 14, 2022, 11:36:30 AM
Grey prices has been dropping week after week. No more investors to fuel these crazy prices
yup seen this quite clearly. the prices of the SS daytonas and 5167a has been droppnig quite significantly. around 15-20% off their highs.
Post by: Squirty on March 14, 2022, 11:38:16 AM
Can already start to see some Rolex prices dropping in the secondary/grey market… now we wait…
really? I just saw a post of white dial ceramic Daytona selling for RM240k few days ago? It was in sub RM200k few weeks ago.
The grey can put whatever price they like, reality is no people is buying it, it went from RM268k down to 230k, in fact i think i even saw RM218k.. and yet it is still unsold.
yep, do u think it will still tumble? i think it will stabilize around 200k where it has been for a long time.
Post by: treasureplanetmy on May 07, 2022, 07:00:03 PM
Post by: bc40 on October 22, 2022, 08:33:00 AM
Post by: dpkong on December 04, 2022, 07:19:54 PM
so.. some weeks later and prices are still steadily declining.. grey dealers are sweating.. how low will it go?
Post by: jf98 on December 05, 2022, 03:33:44 AM
Post by: dpkong on December 05, 2022, 06:10:44 AM
Not too sure with the latest announcement of Rolex CPO. Any idea if that will be implemented here? Our market seems quite small for any of the ADs to do it
I doubt the CPO programme will have any effect on actually pushing the prices up or down.. it will simply follow market prices set by the much larger grey dealer network. Certification may be more appealing to some buyers but I doubt the majority really care if they're buying from a regular dealer they are familiar with.
I think certification is just a fee the RSC will charge to any independent dealer who brings a watch to them for checking an/or servicing.
Post by: bulletnos on December 06, 2022, 06:44:24 PM
Can already start to see some Rolex prices dropping in the secondary/grey market… now we wait…
really? I just saw a post of white dial ceramic Daytona selling for RM240k few days ago? It was in sub RM200k few weeks ago.
The grey can put whatever price they like, reality is no people is buying it, it went from RM268k down to 230k, in fact i think i even saw RM218k.. and yet it is still unsold.
yep, do u think it will still tumble? i think it will stabilize around 200k where it has been for a long time.
Cant help but look at this quote...now White Ceramic Daytona is selling around RM130k+...not sure about actual traded value...
How the prices have fallen...
As for the Rolex CPO program...I just wonder, who is going to feed the used units to them to resell at below RSP? Takkan Rolex themselves goreng second hand prices...LOL
Post by: pleasuresaurus on December 07, 2022, 08:51:18 AM
"Well sir, unfortunately we don't have any brand new in stock for u, but if u direct ur attention here to our certified pre-owned section, we have an excellent selection of pieces in a variety of colors, all in excellent near mint condition (read: unworn bnib) and at just a modest premium"
Post by: revvd on December 07, 2022, 11:28:57 AM
Post by: HawkreiN on December 07, 2022, 08:24:46 PM
They've been missing out on so much sweet aftermarket double triple price action ;D.
"Well sir, unfortunately we don't have any brand new in stock for u, but if u direct ur attention here to our certified pre-owned section, we have an excellent selection of pieces in a variety of colors, all in excellent near mint condition (read: unworn bnib) and at just a modest premium"
I can see that happening. As far as supply and demand, I believe that its a turbulance at the moment and for Rolex models, demand will still outweigh supply. Hence, their pre-owned collection will almost certainly be at a premium, perhaps even compared to some grey market sellers.
Or even worse, another way to continuously inflate market prices...
Post by: ray6969 on December 13, 2022, 06:44:34 AM
The Grand Prix d'Horlogerie de Geneve (GPHG) is the equivalent of the Academy Awards for designers, engineers, watchmakers, and the business professionals that populate the watch industry. But Rolex watches never take the stage in Geneva on awards night. This episode discusses Rolex's reasons for avoiding the awards and focuses the spotlight on standout watches that won big at the GPHG.
One of the most commonly asked questions about the GPHG is "why wasn't a Rolex nominated for any category?" Given the fame, success, and marketplace dominance of watches like Rolex Submariner, Rolex Daytona, and Rolex GMT Master II, it's logical to ask why none of these A-list names appear at the Oscars of watchmaking.
Since the first GPHG edition in 2001, the wristwatch and clock awards ceremony has gained momentum befitting the biggest night in watchmaking. Entry into the GPHG Academy is coveted by industry insiders. Timepiece pre-selections are closely watched and considered so important that even a nomination can form the basis for a promotional campaign by a watch brand. Actual awards like the Aiguille d'Or, Special Jury Prize, and Men's Watch Prize are regarded as the equivalent of "Best Picture," "Best Director," or "Best Actor" at the Oscars.
Rolex skips the GPHG because it has nothing to gain and potentially some measure of reputation to lose. The governors of Rolex understand that their band name occupies a position of unassailable esteem, recognition, and demand. Simply competing with other luxury watch brands would be a tacit acceptance that other watches can, indeed, be compared to Rolex. An actual loss to a competitor would strip the sheen of invincibility that Rolex enjoys in the marketplace.
Moreover, Rolex watches cannot be nominated for any GPHG category because brands first must permit their watches to be nominated and entered. No matter how competitive a Rolex watch might be for a given award category, Rolex itself has the last word on its presence in the year's GPHG.
However, Rolex is more relaxed about the participation of Tudor, its junior brand. Tudor watches regularly compete against segment rivals at the GPHG. In addition to a large number of nominations and category wins, Tudor captured the "Dive Watch" prize as recently as 2022 with its military themed Pelagos FXD.
All of this plus watch collector wrist shots will be featured in this episode of "Watches Tonight!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6bx11kgpco
Post by: G.MAC on December 14, 2022, 01:11:52 PM
Post by: dpkong on December 15, 2022, 08:19:51 AM
Rolex is the most famous watch brand in the world, but it's almost invisible at the annual "Oscars" of watchmaking.
The Grand Prix d'Horlogerie de Geneve (GPHG) is the equivalent of the Academy Awards for designers, engineers, watchmakers, and the business professionals that populate the watch industry. But Rolex watches never take the stage in Geneva on awards night. This episode discusses Rolex's reasons for avoiding the awards and focuses the spotlight on standout watches that won big at the GPHG.
One of the most commonly asked questions about the GPHG is "why wasn't a Rolex nominated for any category?" Given the fame, success, and marketplace dominance of watches like Rolex Submariner, Rolex Daytona, and Rolex GMT Master II, it's logical to ask why none of these A-list names appear at the Oscars of watchmaking.
Since the first GPHG edition in 2001, the wristwatch and clock awards ceremony has gained momentum befitting the biggest night in watchmaking. Entry into the GPHG Academy is coveted by industry insiders. Timepiece pre-selections are closely watched and considered so important that even a nomination can form the basis for a promotional campaign by a watch brand. Actual awards like the Aiguille d'Or, Special Jury Prize, and Men's Watch Prize are regarded as the equivalent of "Best Picture," "Best Director," or "Best Actor" at the Oscars.
Rolex skips the GPHG because it has nothing to gain and potentially some measure of reputation to lose. The governors of Rolex understand that their band name occupies a position of unassailable esteem, recognition, and demand. Simply competing with other luxury watch brands would be a tacit acceptance that other watches can, indeed, be compared to Rolex. An actual loss to a competitor would strip the sheen of invincibility that Rolex enjoys in the marketplace.
Moreover, Rolex watches cannot be nominated for any GPHG category because brands first must permit their watches to be nominated and entered. No matter how competitive a Rolex watch might be for a given award category, Rolex itself has the last word on its presence in the year's GPHG.
However, Rolex is more relaxed about the participation of Tudor, its junior brand. Tudor watches regularly compete against segment rivals at the GPHG. In addition to a large number of nominations and category wins, Tudor captured the "Dive Watch" prize as recently as 2022 with its military themed Pelagos FXD.
All of this plus watch collector wrist shots will be featured in this episode of "Watches Tonight!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6bx11kgpco
nothing to do with crash or turbulence..
ROLEX the watchmaker is not in GPHG because they're just making robust, reliable tool watches and not "haute" pieces.
Buyers are the ones who elevate it to the current status and try to pitch it against the likes of PP, AP, VC
Slightly more than 10 years ago, pieces like the 16570 Explorer 2 were priced below RM20k and used pieces were just around RM10k or less. All grey dealers were selling new pieces (except for the all steel Daytona) far below RRP and usually at a better discount than AD.
The market created the market that it is today and the market can destroy it although not as easily.
Post by: qhy500 on January 14, 2023, 12:57:26 PM