Malaysia Watch Forum
Main Forums => General Discussion - Modern Watches => Topic started by: rizjac on February 02, 2016, 07:36:31 PM
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Hi, I am fairly new here ....but just wanna ask opinions about micro brand watches...from Christopher Ward to Obris Morgan and to Helson? They are in fact value for money watches with domed sapphire crystals, Miyota engines and nicely done up cases etc. And some also have a very limited (sought after) production in the low hundreds.....Just want to get some notions on these type of watches....Thanks.
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There are a wide variety of them.
I am not a fan of the ones that repeatedly use Kickstarter as a form of advance sales and payment (first time - sure. After that, start acting like a company and not like a person working out of his garage). Also, as far as design goes, some of them tend to do pretty interesting things but the vast majority tend to churn out 44mm diver variants by the truckload (and often derivative designs at that, too).
Quite honestly, I'd rather buy a Seiko in the sub-$500 range than any microbrand I have seen so far. However, if there is a design that really speaks to you, by all means have at it. The watches themselves can be quite good value.
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I do agree with vkalia on just going for seiko in the sub USD500 range. The SKX007 is probably the most popular beater which u could get under RM1000 now I think.
But on other micro brands that aren't homages like Sinn and Aegir, I think they are definitely worth a place in my collection though I haven't got around to doing it yet.
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Hi...
I just loved micro brand....not famous and only fellow WIS know about it. From Helson to Helgray, Steinhart to Prometheus, Deep Blue, Obris Morgan.....etc....
Unfortunately, due to our currency now, the watches seem and feels a little bit expensive.
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I noticed these micro brands are selling premium.. rather save bullet for principle one. Imo
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Micro brands serve a niche market. They mostly get their basic components from China with certain design differences. I have had a few micro brands and most while reasonably priced, my experience with them is varied. Some are very good and some not so good. Most depend very much on word of mouth and need the watch forums to survive. And due to the fact that they are driven by entrepreneurs, micro brands lack the longevity to thrive beyond the founder.
While the movement is usually not a problem, I find that if you have an issue with the bracelet or case, if is difficult and may be expensive to resolve. On the whole I would only buy a micro brand if I really like the design, it is worth taking the risk to wait for the delivery and the price is something acceptable.
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Micro brands where the owner take center stage in the franchise building exercise is something that I would go for. The human element makes such brands more believable. Some micro brands that I have the chance to own are: Deep Blue, Ocean7, Maranez, Athaya Vintage, Maranez, Schroeder (just to name a few).
The owners of a vast majority of microbrands tend to keep themselves in the shadows as they are more concern of their own personal reputation if their brand fails (i.e. lack of confidence/just wanting to make a quick buck/ etc).
Having said that, if a design and specification (and independent product review) jives with the pricing (and your interest) by all means, do get it.
Buy what you like and not what other people thinks.
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It all depends on one's preference and liking. If the watch did speak to you and you really like the concept and design, go for it. For me, I prefers Seiko/Stowa for the same price range. Just my preference.
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Thanks guys for all the comments.....i strongly agree with Tet ..the current FOREX rate really makes the micro branders price a little unattractive .....like femann said ....better to save for the "Real Deal" so to speak ....but again ...some micro brands are really quite bang for buck like the likes of Helson, Benarus, Prometheus, Borealis, Obris Morgan etc...however...some of them as highlighted also, are made in China where the same supplier produce for other makes as well....hence taking the uniqueness away from them....I guess it's all down to personal preference and willingness to cough up that extra dough for something that is not for the masses. :'(
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I think it depends on what you want out of a watch.
If you care about aesthetics, then the microbrands give you a lot of variety.
If you care about brands, their history or even their commitment to horology/watch making, then most micro-brands fail. Nomos, Sinn and even Frederique Constant: these are relatively new brands that have made a commitment to watch making. Most microbrands are basically guys with a connection to a factory in China or somewhere. That simply doesnt appeal to me as that isnt a watch from a watch company.
I am ok to support a start-up, but i'd like to see them making a commitment towards MAKING stuff - as opposed to being a design front and re-badging shop.
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i have had my share.
bernhardt - that was the miyota 8215 days - not a fan of this movement, and the lume is piss weak.
the case and bracelet are amazing quality though...i will happily get one for the bracelet alone.
steinhart - the most 'homage-y' of them all. good quality overall..but finishing can be subpar on bits and pieces of the same watch.
my biggest gripe is the flat caseback design making it wear real long on the wrist.
CW - the new logo shits me...i admire their AR skills..probably 1 of the best in the business.
Generally top notch in my opinion...starting to price themselves out of the micro price range.
makara - meh.
michael seals - good design good quality. not sure what to do with it yet.
got a coupla custom pieces incoming too.
waiting on a karlskrona baltic sheild to arrive atm...and have a Aegir CD2 I am a huge fan of.
The baltic shield is designed and produced by a fellow DWC forum-er with lots of forum input, looking forward to it.
The CD2 is just a great watch aesthetically and functionally..
offshore classic chronograph - fantastical piece.
will do a picture review soon enough.
i say with the micros...just know exactly what you are after and you are set.
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steinhart - the most 'homage-y' of them all. good quality overall..but finishing can be subpar on bits and pieces of the same watch.
my biggest gripe is the flat caseback design making it wear real long on the wrist.
^^^
this is also what i dont like about steinhart, and which is why i only had one which is long gone, and most likely wont have another one again until they redesign.
currently the only microbrand i have are gruppo gammas, quality can be hit or miss, but overall good enough.
i've also had armida and maranez - which both are made by the same factory in hong kong - just for the brass pieces which are pretty affordable.
but the currency now are making most microbrand prices reaching up to rm1.5k or more thanks to GST...no longer attractive :P
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I think it depends on what you want out of a watch.
If you care about aesthetics, then the microbrands give you a lot of variety.
If you care about brands, their history or even their commitment to horology/watch making, then most micro-brands fail. Nomos, Sinn and even Frederique Constant: these are relatively new brands that have made a commitment to watch making. Most microbrands are basically guys with a connection to a factory in China or somewhere. That simply doesnt appeal to me as that isnt a watch from a watch company.
I am ok to support a start-up, but i'd like to see them making a commitment towards MAKING stuff - as opposed to being a design front and re-badging shop.
even Frederique Constant?
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Are SInn and F Constant micro brands? Some of the MBs can fetch up to RM5k+ for those super limited editions one....for those...i dont think so that they worth that much ...but its only my opinion....
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I wouldn't count Sinn and FC as micro brand,
Micro brand to my opinion is mostly associate with the some of the following characteristics:
- Watch brand without physical shop, usually only sell via their site
- Brand where owner or creator usually engage with watchforum / social media community
- Brand usually kickstart their brand with crowdfunding platform
- Brand who open for pre-order and build after achieving MOQ
It is a very grey definition, but i see brand that is small only consider micro brand. But how to define small will be another thread.
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Yeap....i have to agree with hidden830726....i think your definition of MB is spot on ... :thumbsup:
I have in my collection a cobra de calibre3 bronze. ...zelos chroma ...Obris Morgan Explorer...Zinvo....Benarus Moray.....Ferro Design from Kickstarter...in which the last 2 i plan to let go in pursuit of yet another timepiece to add to the list....
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IMO, some of the micro brands have a great designs. Domenicompany and Corniche to name a few. But because they are new brands, we must be more selective and do more research.
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IMO, some of the micro brands have a great designs. Domenicompany and Corniche to name a few. But because they are new brands, we must be more selective and do more research.
Never heard of this 2 before, never seen them at WUS too, have to do some googling, Hmm, is fashion watch consider microbrand? Off course they are. They are everywhere. :Cheers:
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Any of you Sifus heard of Andre Belfort? Heard the normal selling price is around 80% off their MSRP....weird :Confused:
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I love microbrands, and people should too. What is different between a microbrand and a Bell and Ross? Both were started by two random people, and use ETA movements. Microbrands use either ETA or Miyota movements - and some I saw has down a lot of unique pieces! So I'd say go for it, I have two microbrands I've placed my eye on.
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i think micro brands are a good alternative option. there are so many out there but the ones i like are halios and steinhart. i bought a gmt which is basically a homage of the gmt master 2, changed to a black leather strap. build quality is okay but u get a proper ETA movement so overall value for money... my 2 cents
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i think Frederique Constant is being serious on watchmaking. while most mirco brand using ETA or sellita movement without much modification, Frederique Constant had move from using ETA to modify to now, fully in house movement. Their watches are at a really interesting price point with a lot of feature very welcome at the price range.
For micro brand, most brand market their watches as they cut the middleman and bring the watch directly to the consumer. but consider this, most basic sellita or ETA eg sw200 eat 2824 cost around 200CHF, with a fixed extra charges for lower than MOQ order. A lot of micro brand are actually selling at a premium than we think they are.
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hi, totally agree if u see what Frederique Constant is doing esp last weeks announcement at basel... vv impressive to really try to give better value to customers, assuming you like their designs which imo tends to be more formal/traditional and less sporty...
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I just want to make it clear. I dont think Frederique Constant is a micro brand. It is founded back in 1988, owned by Alpina Watches (a manufacturer of Swiss sports watches founded in 1883) since 2002. Frederique Constant is not Micro at all.
Please dont keep saying FC as micro brand.
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my bad... i do not consider FC as a micro brand at all, i think just went off topic a bit. what i want to say is that FC is a serious watchmaker that gives value for money for the watches they sell
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my bad... i do not consider FC as a micro brand at all, i think just went off topic a bit. what i want to say is that FC is a serious watchmaker that gives value for money for the watches they sell
:thumbsup: Not directing my reply to anyone, just making it clear for the thread.
Yup FC good value. Little Trivia: Archieluxury hate FC tho
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i personally went on a micro/niche brand craze....
first purchase was a Magrette Regattare 2011 - not bad, didnt like that miyota 8215 was non hacking, but can't complain at this price point. wore it daily for more than a year. serviced once after 3 years.
second niche-ish watch was a dievas shadow - love it, very durable. daily watch now.
next was a steinhart ocean 1 premium blue - very nice as well but the bezel turned out to be different colour compared to on the website, i should have researched more, but it grew on me anyway. sized a bit small, so i guess i will never be able to get a sub....
next few were some kickstarter watches...
Alberta - didnt like the feel, so gave them away. quartz.
mansfield - also didnt like the feel so gave them away as well. quartz.
redux courg - liked the grade 5 titanium case, but the finishing could be better. sized very small so i hardly wear it.
so ultimately.... its a bit of a hit and miss for me.
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I just want to make it clear. I dont think Frederique Constant is a micro brand. It is founded back in 1988, owned by Alpina Watches (a manufacturer of Swiss sports watches founded in 1883) since 2002. Frederique Constant is not Micro at all.
Please dont keep saying FC as micro brand.
True, but one thing..is FC owned alpina, not the other way round right?
I believe people look at FC and think they are but up there against the big boys are because they are really young, founded 1988, actually younger than many of us lol.I really liked the brand actually, hope can y own one of their watch one day.the company definitely doing right things.
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Alpina owned FC.
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Alpina owned FC.
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mmm...a search on the web would suggest otherwise...
http://www.thewatchgallery.com/magazine/alpina-a-brand-history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpina_Watches
Well we can at least agree that the directors of the group are Peter Stas and his wife Aletta Bax, the couple that founded of FC?
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Alpina owned FC.
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mmm...a search on the web would suggest otherwise...
http://www.thewatchgallery.com/magazine/alpina-a-brand-history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpina_Watches
Well we can at least agree that the directors of the group are Peter Stas and his wife Aletta Bax, the couple that founded of FC?
Oops typo from me, FC owned Alpina. Typo probably due to A always come before F.
Thanks for correction.
Thate why I cannot tahan FC being label as micro at all.
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i would label FC as really good brand imho lol. They actually have the guts to develop in house movement even they are young. Consider this, up til 2007 only when omega finally come out with co axial 8500, which is fully in house develop, took them long enough time to go in house. fantastic movement and actually worth the wait. still, even omega does not really call it in house lol.
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(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oDX7q15O9bw/VtUFsRwTZHI/AAAAAAAAH7k/2vrzbzc-TzU/s320/Screen%2BShot%2B2016-03-01%2Bat%2B10.58.10%2BAM.png)
I like micro-brands. The ones that I have purchased todate were started from promoters whom were enthusiastic about watches too, so there were genuine affection from the project owners. But as with any micro brands, quality could be a hit-and-miss sometimes, depending on the batch or piece that was allocated to the buyer. They were buying parts and assembling these (or paying others to assemble for them), so they have no full control over the full processes involved. And warranty could be harder to claim as they may not have local service centres, so you would need to send the piece back to the originating countries for any repairs.
So with a micro-brand, you have to pray very hard that the piece that you received was good at the first count. Then, you would have no further issues. Servicing for the movement would mostly be a breeze, as the movements used typically were sourced from Miyota, Seiko, ETA and Selitta. Any watchsmith worth his salt could easily work on these movements.
Me? My luck has been good with micro-brands, all except for a Steinhart piece that had to be sent back to Germany but dealing with Mr Gunter was no issues. As mentioned earlier, the promoters of micro-brands were mostly enthusiasts too so it was easy as we spoke the same lingo if anything was to happen.
Current ones in my winder were as per the following :
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ulmzgB02YPo/Vppgpgt4ZNI/AAAAAAAAH1w/rDJMnpl_8vk/s320/920689_10208211110899742_8533847824619943210_o.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rdBdbVUljz8/Vtj4U-t3pAI/AAAAAAAAH8E/qsrOnhmlCB0/s320/PhotoGrid_1456927793377.jpg)
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Nth watch is in stock with some new colours.....
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Borealis has preorder starting next week foe their Sea storm v2
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Anyone preordering the crafter blue watch.....aka mechanic ocean....?
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Yeap....i have to agree with hidden830726....i think your definition of MB is spot on ... :thumbsup:
I have in my collection a cobra de calibre3 bronze. ...zelos chroma ...Obris Morgan Explorer...Zinvo....Benarus Moray.....Ferro Design from Kickstarter...in which the last 2 i plan to let go in pursuit of yet another timepiece to add to the list....
My Zinvo watch :thumbsup:
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My Gavox watch :thumbsup:
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Martenero edgemere!! A vibrant watch, which i normally wear when having weekend breakfast! But possibly would let this one go in the next few months T_T, thinking of looking for something new. Nice simple nautical themed watch... been rocking this for almost a year now
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Oh not to forget, the box! I think it is slick n nice for its price