Author Topic: Watch as Investment  (Read 33572 times)

Offline el118

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2014, 11:45:16 AM »
That is why Marketing genius at Patek come out with the "heirloom" idea for consumer to justify the exuberant price :Cheers:

Offline dpkong

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2014, 12:31:43 PM »
Don't get trapped into believing that watch is a good investment. I've made that mistakes several years ago...Friends convinced me to purchase second hand Rolex, telling me how convenient it is for me to dispose it at any pawn shop if I need money. I had a nice windfall back then, and went crazy buying several 2nd hand Rolexes. Since then I closely keep track of the prices and it hardly moved. I've asked watch dealers to know how much they're willing to take a piece that I particularly like to sell, and they quoted me a price of ard 20% of what I've paid! Needless to say, I decided to keep the watch.

Learn from my lesson...A watch is never an investment. It's something you buy to enjoy, and if it ended up becoming more valuable along the way, that's a bonus. So my friend, get a watch that you like and if you want to invest, then go for stocks or properties. Just my 2 cents... :)

I bought my used Rolex 1601 in 1991 for RM 750 sent repair RM400 the watch shop onwer offer me
RM 2000 and again sent repair in 2008 another RM 400 this he offer me RM 4000 now friend offer me
RM 6000 what do you think.....as investment....

In those days, Rolex were priced more "reasonably". Also, do consider inflation in the process. Based on your experience, we would need to hold onto one watch for 23 years before it quadruples in value. And that's only for your model.

Look at used prices from grey dealers for a used 1990s Rolex President. IINM, they're in the RM2x,000 range depending on condition. How much were they in the 90s? Consider also that if you were to sell to them, they would take it for much less than the selling price to add in costs of maintenance, polish, holding costs and profit.

Everyone new in the watch or Rolex game gets told it's an investment. From current owners to salespeople.

Was RM750 the market price then for a 1601 or did you buy it off someone at a gambling table?? 

:Laughing_on_floor:

And RM60k was a good price for the gold Lady Datejust on oyster (for the seller that is..). For that money, I could get a WG 36mm Rolex President with president bracelet. Yes, Rolex can be an investment if you happen to meet the right "buyer"...

 :Laughing_on_floor:

Offline schnitzer

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2014, 12:53:33 PM »
Dpkong,

I certainly hope to find the right "buyer" in this forum  ;)

For the moment, I'm happy to hold on to the watches and will wait for time to do it's magic :)

Offline dpkong

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2014, 01:53:35 PM »
Dpkong,

I certainly hope to find the right "buyer" in this forum  ;)

For the moment, I'm happy to hold on to the watches and will wait for time to do it's magic :)

Chances of that would be much lower here. Try out on the streets where the value of watches are more hyped.

 :Cheers:

Offline el118

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2014, 02:12:53 PM »
Dpkong,

I certainly hope to find the right "buyer" in this forum  ;)

For the moment, I'm happy to hold on to the watches and will wait for time to do it's magic :)

Chances of that would be much lower here. Try out on the streets where the value of watches are more hyped.

 :Cheers:

I doubt it would be higher out there. people will be sceptical about the authenticity of the watch. so either bite the bullet and sell at a loss or keep it for "Forced Heirloom". :Dancing_banana:

Offline engkow

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2014, 08:13:33 AM »
Don't get trapped into believing that watch is a good investment. I've made that mistakes several years ago...Friends convinced me to purchase second hand Rolex, telling me how convenient it is for me to dispose it at any pawn shop if I need money. I had a nice windfall back then, and went crazy buying several 2nd hand Rolexes. Since then I closely keep track of the prices and it hardly moved. I've asked watch dealers to know how much they're willing to take a piece that I particularly like to sell, and they quoted me a price of ard 20% of what I've paid! Needless to say, I decided to keep the watch.

Learn from my lesson...A watch is never an investment. It's something you buy to enjoy, and if it ended up becoming more valuable along the way, that's a bonus. So my friend, get a watch that you like and if you want to invest, then go for stocks or properties. Just my 2 cents... :)

Bought from a relative watch need repair, sent to rolex center to repair they
quote was RM 975.00 my relative too much dont want too repair, he bought
few years back for RM 1500, I said you bought RM1500 sell me half price I
sent for repair deal done.
I bought my used Rolex 1601 in 1991 for RM 750 sent repair RM400 the watch shop onwer offer me
RM 2000 and again sent repair in 2008 another RM 400 this he offer me RM 4000 now friend offer me
RM 6000 what do you think.....as investment....

In those days, Rolex were priced more "reasonably". Also, do consider inflation in the process. Based on your experience, we would need to hold onto one watch for 23 years before it quadruples in value. And that's only for your model.

Look at used prices from grey dealers for a used 1990s Rolex President. IINM, they're in the RM2x,000 range depending on condition. How much were they in the 90s? Consider also that if you were to sell to them, they would take it for much less than the selling price to add in costs of maintenance, polish, holding costs and profit.

Everyone new in the watch or Rolex game gets told it's an investment. From current owners to salespeople.

Was RM750 the market price then for a 1601 or did you buy it off someone at a gambling table?? 

:Laughing_on_floor:

And RM60k was a good price for the gold Lady Datejust on oyster (for the seller that is..). For that money, I could get a WG 36mm Rolex President with president bracelet. Yes, Rolex can be an investment if you happen to meet the right "buyer"...

 :Laughing_on_floor:

Offline panlex

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2014, 02:44:46 PM »
Side track a bit. Since you are a gold bug, mind sharing what you invest in?


Of course there's a good return. It's for the gold.  :Jumping:
I'm a gold bug ... sold it to another gold bug ....
Not too sure abt the watch though ... just learning from this forum if watch can be another option as investment.  :angel:


Offline Chipi

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2014, 10:20:28 PM »
Side track a bit. Since you are a gold bug, mind sharing what you invest in?


Of course there's a good return. It's for the gold.  :Jumping:
I'm a gold bug ... sold it to another gold bug ....
Not too sure abt the watch though ... just learning from this forum if watch can be another option as investment.  :angel:


Banks have Gold and Silver accounts. This way I avoid the hassle of looking for buyers. Purely on price movement.
The gold watch was the first "gold" I bought then as I understood better, real gold bugs buy coins & bars.
I find that troublesome. Not only that, this ETF shy gold investors have this mentality of government confiscating your gold, end-of-the world scenarios which I think is BS.  :Confused:

 

Offline el118

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2014, 05:50:26 AM »
Side track a bit. Since you are a gold bug, mind sharing what you invest in?


Of course there's a good return. It's for the gold.  :Jumping:
I'm a gold bug ... sold it to another gold bug ....
Not too sure abt the watch though ... just learning from this forum if watch can be another option as investment.  :angel:


Banks have Gold and Silver accounts. This way I avoid the hassle of looking for buyers. Purely on price movement.
The gold watch was the first "gold" I bought then as I understood better, real gold bugs buy coins & bars.
I find that troublesome. Not only that, this ETF shy gold investors have this mentality of government confiscating your gold, end-of-the world scenarios which I think is BS.  :Confused:

Hi bro, u invested in Genova??

Offline Chipi

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2014, 06:42:31 PM »
Side track a bit. Since you are a gold bug, mind sharing what you invest in?


Of course there's a good return. It's for the gold.  :Jumping:
I'm a gold bug ... sold it to another gold bug ....
Not too sure abt the watch though ... just learning from this forum if watch can be another option as investment.  :angel:


Banks have Gold and Silver accounts. This way I avoid the hassle of looking for buyers. Purely on price movement.
The gold watch was the first "gold" I bought then as I understood better, real gold bugs buy coins & bars.
I find that troublesome. Not only that, this ETF shy gold investors have this mentality of government confiscating your gold, end-of-the world scenarios which I think is BS.  :Confused:

Hi bro, u invested in Genova??

Nope. My neighbour was promoting it but was not interested bcoz the spread was too wide.
The best deal is still ETF from banks
Guess I'm not really a gold bug after all.....  :Laughing_on_floor:

Offline el118

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2014, 07:39:56 PM »
Pls re read what the wisest investor of all time, mr Warren Buffet, said about investment in gold. Especially after 2012.

Offline Chipi

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2014, 07:43:35 PM »
Pls re read what the wisest investor of all time, mr Warren Buffet, said about investment in gold. Especially after 2012.

Mr. Buffet said so many things ... which wise statement of his are you refering to? ???

Offline watzisname

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2014, 07:49:12 PM »
"Today the world's gold stock is about 170,000 metric tons. If all of this gold were melded together, it would form a cube of about 68 feet per side. (Picture it fitting comfortably within a baseball infield.) At $1,750 per ounce -- gold's price as I write this -- its value would be $9.6 trillion. Call this cube pile A.

"Let's now create a pile B costing an equal amount. For that, we could buy all U.S. cropland (400 million acres with output of about $200 billion annually), plus 16 Exxon Mobils (the world's most profitable company, one earning more than $40 billion annually). After these purchases, we would have about $1 trillion left over for walking-aroundmoney (no sense feeling strapped after this buying binge). Can you imagine an investor with $9.6 trillion selecting pile A over pile B?

"A century from now the 400 million acres of farmlandwill have produced staggering amounts of corn, wheat, cotton, and other crops -- and will continue to produce that valuable bounty, whatever thecurrency may be. Exxon Mobil will probably have delivered trillions of dollars in dividends to its owners and will also hold assets worth many more trillions (and, remember, you get 16 Exxons). The 170,000 tons of gold will beunchanged in size and still incapable of producing anything. You can fondle the cube, but it will not respond."

So, instead of nonproductive assets such as gold, Buffett prefers productive assets like farmland or companies that generate enormouswealth for shareholders -- companies like Exxon Mobil ( XOM ) , Coca-Cola or See's Candy.

And he clearly explains why:

"Our country's businesses will continue to efficiently deliver goods and services wanted by our citizens. Metaphorically, these commercial "cows" will live for centuries and give ever greater quantities of "milk" to boot. Their value will be determined not by the medium of exchange but rather by their capacity to deliver milk. Proceeds from thesale of the milk willcompound for the owners of the cows, just as they did during the 20th century when the Dow increased from 66 to 11,497 (and paid loads of dividends as well).

"I believe that over any extended period of time this category ofinvesting will prove to be the runaway winner… More important, it will be by far the safest."



Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/article/why-warren-buffett-hates-gold-cm267928#ixzz33lxJlWBG

Offline Chipi

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2014, 08:19:45 PM »
Yup agree with that statement.  :thumbsup:

Gold price movement is based on macro economics. There's no interest payment or dividend. It's ALL price appreciation.

So what asset vehicle do we have to invest in with our extra cash. Inflation reduces our buying power and interest rate in FD gives lousy returns. Forget about unit trusts.  :mooning:

OPTION 1: Properties
Properties maybe? .... Price is so high, your monthly rental cannot cover the cost of installment and maintenance. It's negative cashflow.... unless you downpay a lump of cash or increase your prepayment (flexi loan) ... to create positive cashflow. Other than that ... you are counting on price appreciation. Now, doesn't that look like gold investment.

And there's fear of bubble popping ....  :thumbsdown:

OPTION 2: Stock Markets
The market is slooshing with so much cash thanks to QE, stocks prices has gone to the moon. Every indexes reach new high all the time and PE ratio is so high it take years to breakeven from company earnings/dividend alone. So what do you rely on ... price appreciation. Now, doesn't that look like gold investment.

And there's fear of bubble popping ....  :thumbsdown:

Unless of course you are Warren Buffet to be able to buy controlling stake of the company .... that's a different league. Most of us are not in that league.

OPTION 3: Foreign Exchange
IF you have the time to sit in front of your PC to look at market movement.... sure why not. There's still money to be made.
Oh.... wait a minute .... it doesn't pay dividend and rely on price appreciation. Now, doesn't that look like gold investment.

OPTION 4: Own Business
I'm running my own business now. Allocated capital is enough. Here we are talking abt EXTRA cash to invest for appreciation.
Another business maybe?  :o
But more for salaried ppl, starting a business with their available cash would mean sacrificing their monthly salary. So own business doesn't apply. However, the would be the best option by far.....  :thumbsup:

Offline kenji1903

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2014, 07:43:17 AM »
although thread is slightly diverted, i'm enjoying the information and comments, keep it up guys :thumbsup:

Offline watzisname

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2014, 07:58:39 AM »
Every investment has its risks. What differs from gambling is we take calculated risk. A smart investor only buy investments when he deems the risk/reward is low.

If I can find a genuine vintage Rolex at a low/fair price then its a good investment maybe. If I have to pay a premium price (like the prices now) then the risk/reward is not that appealing.

Offline sshark

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2014, 10:02:59 AM »
When a new watch has an invest-able potential it is going to be sold at its future price i.e. much more expensive than its retail price or most probably you will be put into a queue.

Offline sinbad2k

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2014, 11:57:47 AM »
Yup agree with that statement.  :thumbsup:

Gold price movement is based on macro economics. There's no interest payment or dividend. It's ALL price appreciation.

So what asset vehicle do we have to invest in with our extra cash. Inflation reduces our buying power and interest rate in FD gives lousy returns. Forget about unit trusts.  :mooning:

OPTION 1: Properties
Properties maybe? .... Price is so high, your monthly rental cannot cover the cost of installment and maintenance. It's negative cashflow.... unless you downpay a lump of cash or increase your prepayment (flexi loan) ... to create positive cashflow. Other than that ... you are counting on price appreciation. Now, doesn't that look like gold investment.

And there's fear of bubble popping ....  :thumbsdown:

OPTION 2: Stock Markets
The market is slooshing with so much cash thanks to QE, stocks prices has gone to the moon. Every indexes reach new high all the time and PE ratio is so high it take years to breakeven from company earnings/dividend alone. So what do you rely on ... price appreciation. Now, doesn't that look like gold investment.

And there's fear of bubble popping ....  :thumbsdown:

Unless of course you are Warren Buffet to be able to buy controlling stake of the company .... that's a different league. Most of us are not in that league.

OPTION 3: Foreign Exchange
IF you have the time to sit in front of your PC to look at market movement.... sure why not. There's still money to be made.
Oh.... wait a minute .... it doesn't pay dividend and rely on price appreciation. Now, doesn't that look like gold investment.

OPTION 4: Own Business
I'm running my own business now. Allocated capital is enough. Here we are talking abt EXTRA cash to invest for appreciation.
Another business maybe?  :o
But more for salaried ppl, starting a business with their available cash would mean sacrificing their monthly salary. So own business doesn't apply. However, the would be the best option by far.....  :thumbsup:


Isn't gold price fixed by a bunch of international banks daily?

Offline Chipi

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2014, 12:26:12 PM »
Which investment is not fixed by any group of ppl ... LIBOR  case.
Not surprising business, investment as long as money making is control/manipulated somehow or another.  :Blue:

Offline sinbad2k

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2014, 02:21:13 PM »
Yea, sad reality isn't it?
On another note, silver fixing has ended. gold could be next. it's interesting to see how transparent the new price fixing is and how gold will eventually follow suit.  Ok, we've sidetracked waaaay off the topic.

Offline Chipi

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2014, 02:41:59 PM »
Yup ... back on track:
Maybe our seniors here can give their opinion of factors to spot for invest-able watches apart from brands.  ;D
 

Offline dpkong

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2014, 05:07:45 PM »
Which investment is not fixed by any group of ppl ... LIBOR  case.
Not surprising business, investment as long as money making is control/manipulated somehow or another.  :Blue:


So eventually, those who think they're investors are actually just little pawns in the game?

Back on topic...

If you really must invest in a watch, go for the extremely limited production models of Patek Philippe. Though my opinion of most high brand watches are that they maintain their value if bought at the right price. You may be lucky if they appreciate. It won't swing like gold so expect a very long wait.

Watches that command high prices now are collector items and as with anything in that field, you need to acquire the skills of a collector. It's not as simple as gold trading.

I guess stamps/coin collecting forums get similar questions like "Which stamp/coin should I buy as investment?"
 :Confused:


 :Laughing_on_floor:

Offline panlex

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2014, 03:25:18 PM »
It happened before.  It is well known that in 1933, President Roosevelt confiscated the gold of U.S. citizens and made possession of gold illegal. Nothing is impossible for a government. They will do anything to survive.

If you think ETF and physical gold are the same, or you think gold is useless, you have to find out why gold is an important element in our financial system. Of course you won't read about the importance of gold in MSM and of course Warren Buffett will play down gold as he benefits from the irresponsible printing of paper money.

I am not the right person to talk about this but if you are interested to find out why gold is important (it acts like insurance), check out this site:
http://hiddensecretsofmoney.com

Watch the video series as they are excellently done.

Also, here's an article to rebuke what Buffett said about gold. Did you know that his father had endorsed gold?
http://srsroccoreport.com/guest-post-warren-buffett-and-the-investment-value-of-gold/guest-post-warren-buffett-and-the-investment-value-of-gold/

Hope I can shed some light to some myths about gold  ;)

Offline sinbad2k

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2014, 03:52:32 PM »
The video is convincing but our BNM does not have any private shareholders and its existence is under the purview of MOF unlike US Federal Reserve. I guess we're a bit "safer"?. I think it's not really advisable to turn all your cash savings into gold bullion (including paper gold) at this point of the time as the money printing exercise is tapering and the gold price is still on its way down. If you trust Mike's warning completely, then grab as much bullion coins as you can in the coming months but be prepared to lose few % till it reaches the lowest price.

p/s: Kijang Emas bullion coin is a good money for value. (24K, low spread, not far from international gold price)



It happened before.  It is well known that in 1933, President Roosevelt confiscated the gold of U.S. citizens and made possession of gold illegal. Nothing is impossible for a government. They will do anything to survive.

If you think ETF and physical gold are the same, or you think gold is useless, you have to find out why gold is an important element in our financial system. Of course you won't read about the importance of gold in MSM and of course Warren Buffett will play down gold as he benefits from the irresponsible printing of paper money.

I am not the right person to talk about this but if you are interested to find out why gold is important (it acts like insurance), check out this site:
http://hiddensecretsofmoney.com

Watch the video series as they are excellently done.

Also, here's an article to rebuke what Buffett said about gold. Did you know that his father had endorsed gold?
http://srsroccoreport.com/guest-post-warren-buffett-and-the-investment-value-of-gold/guest-post-warren-buffett-and-the-investment-value-of-gold/

Hope I can shed some light to some myths about gold  ;)

Offline Yoda

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Re: Watch as Investment
« Reply #49 on: September 16, 2014, 06:51:24 AM »
"Train Yourself To Let Go Of Everything you Fear To Lose"

"The Fear Of Loss Is A Path To The Dark Side"

Yoda